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If they martyr all refusing the mark, ( yes indeed according to the word) then a chaotic or orderly removal of all believers is kinda a moot point.

My only claim is that revealed only means revealed. When was Obama revealed? Before or after he took power? I know...you can not address it. It is a no brainer,and it is so easy to see. The ac revealed is , a pretrib rapture concept.

QUOTE.."I believe He talks about things related to His second coming from Matthew 24:23 to the end of the discourse in Matthew 25:46. I don't see any change of subject in verse 36. I believe the gathering of the elect mentioned in verse 31 is a reference to the rapture and by reading Matthew...

It beautifully depicts the rapture because we see all the preparation and the separation of Noah from the world for he is taken into the ark. Then we see the doors shut by God. We also see a door shut, when the groom takes the bride in Matthew 25. And then during the tribulation, we see Noah...

Yep I keep wondering what translation says the 2 are delivered post trib. Noah,a mile into the clouds DURING THE TRIB, returns postrib and starts a new kingdom. I wonder if any doctrine teaches that? Oh wait...only one PREREIB RAPTURE. All others fail completely. Glad I got it right 48 years ago

You are now saying you will not know who he is when he arrives ???? Your doctrine carried you there. I knew right away obama was of the devil...way before he took power. IOW he was revealed before he took power. He was revealed and had no power.. It is amazing how you struggle with that. Maybe...

NT baptism is not for the remission of sins. Rom 6 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we...

This is all man's mental understanding. Not a thing of the spirit. Like a mechanic guiding an accountant. You have zero idea what you are talking about. The slightest miracle or term you can not pigeon hole in some made up cessationist doctrinel sends you into a supposed "biblical"...

Paul said by spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful

Church of christ told me that I was not saved even if water baptized. Because it was only to be performed by them. So I walked out. They were not able to pull me out of the ditch I was in in 1974. Then Jesus came in 1976. Saved by a real live savior ' with no church and no evangelist

That is exactly like saying obama can not be revealed pre election. He was and the AC will be easily revealed by any believer with minimal discernment way before he takes power. I am glad I can discern the word "revealed" is "before taking power." You think they are exactly the same.

Obama was revealed a year before he took power. So revealed is definitely pretrib. He is not revealed mid trib.

I loved the choosing of Peter episode ,it was incredible what they did with that. But I lost interest when they did that butcher job on the first miracle turning the water into wine. I just kept shaking my head and thinking why in the world with a deviate so far and jettison all the components

The spiritual dynamic Paul is conveying is that we identify with death when underwater, then identify with resurrection when coming up out of water. No salvation in water baptism. Never has been. Nor is taught as salvation. It is obedience,and bears witness to our born again new inward man. That...

I am pretribber and I support the revealing of the AC before the rapture. I will even go as far as to say believers will be rounded up immediately and put in huge compounds. Then the rapture happens from those facilities. All pretrib.

The AC revealed before the rapture is ok with me. The AC revealed could be a day before the rapture. AHEM...That is definately pretrib. You actually think the postrib rapture doctrine has the AC revealed at the end of his rulership???? Revealed is before his rulership. So that verse actually...

QUOTE; """That is, I believe, a misinterpretation of the "one taken one left." Both "taken" and "left" are under judgment via the Romans. Those "left" were left alive to till the fields for the Romans. Those "taken" were either killed or taken away into slavery in exile. This was not the...

Ok give me the verse

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk innewness of Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the...

I never say " sufficient proof". I only report the fact that the setting ONLY FITS a pretrib rapture. We have the high ground in every dimension. Setting is one dimension