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Well pretribbers and postribbers agree that Jesus returns after the trib. You just quoted a verse that has angels, not Jesus gathering the elect up in heaven, not earth, which ironically only harmonizes with a pretrib rapture. So,not sure of your point,and not sure of your position concerning...

Pretrib rapture is taught by Jesus. So you claim to have o.t. verses that cancel Jesus doctrine??? I can quite handily defend the doctrine of a pretrib rapture as Jesus vividly depicted. But you can not defend a postrib rapture with a bible. I have spent hours listening to postrib rapture...

It is a dynamic from Hebrews 3 and 4. Jesus has become our sabboth day rest. The sabboth is no longer a day for the christian. But if you eliminate hebrews 3 and 4 your position could be plausable. So yes Jesus did say that. You can read it yourself.

When i debate a postribber , they very eagerly and willingly read the word "after" ,concerning after the tribulation ,when Angels ,not Jesus, and THEY gather the elect, from Heaven, not earth .( ahem, which means it is not the rapture) Now they can see the word "after", but they fail to see...

Yes you are. Paul clearly made the distinction. You may not agree with the bible, but that is your choice.

Yes Basically saying that everyday is the sabbath. The sabbath day is now a person, not a day. But John is saying that he was "in the Spirit" on a day of the week. You may have difficulty with that, but that is exactly how it reads. I have no dog in that fight. I do not need it to be or say what...

why lie? How does that do anything?????? A tiny, tiny bit if research will lead you out of that silliness. Some ancients did believed in a pretrib rapture . Many of the ancients did. Hello, the catholics burned pretribbers and their writings. Sound familiar???? Kill the messenger.????? But the...

lol Both sides of the debate believe the saints are gathered postrib. What we have here ,is postribs shown the rapture is not the second coming. You actually pretend Jesus never used Lot and Noah as prejudgment gatherings. Then you go postribber default mode with non biblical attacks hoping to...

You have several obstacles in that leap that you made. Number one being Jesus marked the Rapture Before the Flood. Jesus marked the rapture before Sodom was destroyed. So in your Doctrine you actually have lot of removed after Sodom is destroyed. You also have Noah removed after the flood. But...

Also note that mat 25 is the rapture. The groom/Jesus comes for the worthy saints. The bride. They go immediately into the marriage chamber. That is in heaven, as Jesus prophesied at the last supper. Postribs have Jesus taking the bride in a uturn back to the brides house,(earth)

And that second coming is vividly depicted in rev 19. The church is seen in heaven for the wedding feast, and seen mounted on the white horses ready to return to earth ( as Jesus depicted in Noah. Noah leaves earth and is lifted into the heavens. Then returns to earth POSTJUDGEMENT) Pretrib...

...and right on cue, you left out the gathering a few sentences later that is before the flood. Ahem, that one is in fact the rapture, vividly declared by Jesus himself. There is No rapture at the second coming on horses. Nobody has ever found any verse declaring it.

you posted mat 24:30,31 You are showing us AFTER the trib ANGELS gather, NOT Jesus And it is FROM HEAVEN, NOT earth. So you have shown us, the gathering postrib is not the rapture at all.

Jesus used noah and lot to illustrate His coming BEFORE the flood and BEFORE Sodoms judgement. Look in mat 24. It says BEFORE the flood. And it flows and harmonizes that niether noah or anyone else was gathered AFTER THE FLOOD/ AFTER Sodom's judgement. Such a vivid pattern we see God remove His...

Mat 24 alone has more than one place. mat 25 is the groom coming for the bride. Jesus taught a pretrib rapture, but men have led you down a path of deception.

"I used to be a pre-trib Rapture believer but then I started studying the Bible." How many times have we heard this ridiculous nonsense.???? I would invite any postribber to post for us one verse that says anything about a post tribulation rapture.

it truly is a pretrib rapture

The Bible says "walking in the Spirit" with a capital "S". You never put a capital S when you use that same phrase. And apparently you do it with no red flags. But I think it's deeper than that. I think you got your own set of beliefs and you're trying to make that Bible fit that belief system...

Was beneath. Now emptied. You can safely say paradise is now in heaven.

Okay it seems people in here don't understand what walking in the Spirit means. They do not understand that term "in the Spirit." And so this gets back to the starting place that Jesus outlined. Jesus commanded the disciples not to do anything, not to start a Ministry, not to go out and preach...