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It is there but you must be given eyes to see. I can't help you only God can.

Yeah I believe He did suffer Gods Wrath against the sins of Gods Elect. None of those scriptures made your case, not even close, most of them didnt have a thing to do with the matter. Gods wrath comes upon sin, Eph 5:5-6 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous...

Your argument is from silence since the bible not once says Jesus didnt suffer wrath and anger from God.

Obviously this is a matter you dont understand. Your argument is from silence since the bible not once says Jesus didnt suffer wrath and anger from God.

Christ I believe experienced Gods Wrath against Sin, not His Sin, but the Sins of Gods Elect, when He was made a curse on the Tree Gal 3:13 and experienced being forsaken of His Father as a consequence of imputed sin. I also believe He experienced unparalleled anguish of mind and soul, even of body.

Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for ! So because Christ's Death alone has once and for all sanctified or set apart for God's Purpose all those he died for, as an evidence of that Truth, the Spirit of God gives New Life unto all of them unto Gospel Obedience or Belief of...

Neither of you are correct.

I dont follow you.

Again,may God be merciful to deliver you from this strong delusion.

Only God can deliver you from this delusion friend, may He be pleased to do so. I once taught very zealously that one had to be water baptized in Jesus name in water according to Acts 2:38 to get saved, but God mercifully gave me repentance to acknowledging the Truth.

BH Sorta like what Phillip told the Ethiopian Acts 8:36-39 Im with you on that. Agreed, especially now that religionists have deified it ! I even know of some Sovereign Gracers, Baptist, who treat you like an unbeliever if you havent been water baptized. Besides, Christ was water baptized...

Christ's One Offering Sanctified forever those He died for ! Jesus says of those He died for Jn 17:19 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. This here Christ sanctifying Himself has to do with offering Himself in Death, and by this, He...

bible highlighter Interesting that the word washing is the word for baptism. I find your comment interesting "Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of...

heartwashed Friend thats heresy, the blood of Christ washes away our sins Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, What you...

heartwashed The water of the word. One should not be water baptized until after they are born again, Peter was speaking to the regenerate in Acts 2:38, new born babes in Christ. And remission of sins accompanies and results from the blood shed of Christ Matt 26:28 28 For this is my blood...

I believe this means to be born of the water of the word, which is the Gospel, and the Spirit. One is first born of the Spirit, given new life by Him, and then that new life from the Spirit is brought forth by the Gospel. James 1:18 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we...

Thats if you are saved by Grace through Faith. But you make Faith a condition you do to get saved, so thats works, and not saved by grace through faith.

Not if you condition your salvation on your faith, you have defaulted to salvation by works. Also Eph 2:8 doesnt say anything about being saved through Faith, but by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourselves, its the Gift of God. You even quote the verse wrong !

I dont know what in the world you talking about, sounds confusing !

lizbeth It seems you are minimizing something that is very vital, making the difference of one being saved by grace and or by works.