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  1. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Trumpet, shofar, salpigx. Greek = salpigx sal'-pinx Perhaps from G4535 (through the idea of quavering or reverberation); a trumpet: - trump (-et). Total KJV occurrences: 11 [Strong] A three and a half year harpazo? Hardly a snatching away then...
  2. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Well contrary to what you have, Timtofly, I don't see any saints having an endoxazō pneumatikos sōma (glorified spiritual body) until the last trump sounds, which is when the change takes place. These two verses align with this. 1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last...
  3. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Here's something to help you along with that, Randy. After the fifth seal is opened there are seen under the altar in heaven the souls of some slain saints, and these souls of the slain saints are given white robes. White robes are also worn by the 24 elders. These 5th seal souls, who wear...
  4. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    You seem to be ignoring that angels don't need and are not subject to redemption, which the 24 elders are.
  5. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    It's a vision. If you think God cannot include the future redeemed, resurrected, glorified, and eternally existing saints in a vision intended to disclose the Inputs, Processes, and Outcomes He wants John to write about for the edification of those in the temporal realm, yet to be resurrected...
  6. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Ok, 101G. I am glad we agree that Jesus is included in the work of Creation, Scripture often names or refers to the Creator when it is not Christ in view, but of course not excluding Him from the creative work. Please don't think I am saying Jesus is not integral to the the work of Creation, and...
  7. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Oh Dear, Randy. You have missed an important reference to the 24 elders which rules out the theory that they are angels. Angels are not subject to redemption from every kindred, tongue, people, and nation, and are not made kings and priests, as are the 24 elders and the rest of the priesthood...
  8. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    I appreciate you asking about the Godhead and how the three members of it exist as one yet function as three. How is H2O a liquid, a solid and a gas? Simply put they can exist in different forms depending on the circumstances. In Biblical Theology there is a concept called "Progressive...
  9. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Hi 101G. The answer to your question is found in all the verses that show us God in Christ, doing all things by Him. 2Co 5:18-19 And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19) To wit, that God was in...
  10. Stumpmaster

    the 4 horsemen--ancient or now?

    Hi there Randy Kluth, So, Revelation, the Apocalypse, the 7 Ekklesias, the Lamb, the Scroll, the 4 Beasts, the 24 Elders, the 7 Seals... Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book (biblios = scroll back then) written within and on the backside, sealed with seven...
  11. Stumpmaster

    "I don't like even being around them"

    I remember an unmarried couple over 30 years ago that told me they regularly attended the 1000 strong AOG fellowship I was part of back then, "just to have a laugh at Christianity", which apparently they didn't believe a word of. People have all sorts of reasons for interacting with us "peculiar...
  12. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    So are you going to repent or take your chances? Best you meditate on these Scriptures, kcnalp. Pro 3:11-12 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction: (12) For whom the LORD loves he corrects; even as a father the son in whom he delights. Heb 12:3-11...
  13. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    The problem wasn't with God. In His love and kindness He has always offered mercy to those who put their faith in Him. If you don't want God's Judgment upon you don't go against His Will. If God didn't punish the wicked He would not be worth worshipping and submitting to, and certainly would not...
  14. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    What you say is true, which leads to the question "Why fellowship at all if Christ is always with you?" The answer is to exhort and edify one another in love, and my early experience of institutional denominational Christianity was that the ritualistic, formal Sunday liturgy was the powerhouse...
  15. Stumpmaster

    Where does religion fit in?

    Hi Confused-by -Christianity, What a great username to make a salient point. Yes, there is a mantra to the effect that Christianity is not a religion founded by Christ but a relationship enjoyed with Him. Joh 15:5 (Jesus said) I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I...
  16. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    Hi marks. While the context of Matthew 18:20 is about meeting to sort out grievances it remains true of any situation where two or three are gathered in Christ's Name, that He is in their midst. To suggest otherwise is to erroneously manipulate Scripture through bad exegesis
  17. Stumpmaster

    How will we know the real Jesus from a false prophet?

    Wkpd Page List of False Messiahs Some major players in the list which dates back to the 18th Century.
  18. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    We keep the numbers of our simple in-home fellowship low on purpose. Eight is as big as we like to get otherwise the dynamic changes and there is less participation from everyone, and more work for the host. There is a case for the larger gathering but when Christians passively pew-sit week...
  19. Stumpmaster

    HILLSONG

    Have you read "Pagan Christianity" by George Bana & Frank Viola, and its sequel "Reimagining Church" by Frank Viola? They are available as eBooks and have some useful comments on nonScriptural concepts and practices masquerading as Christianity. The Authors' Site: Pagan Christianity.org