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It's quite astounding that both Matthias and I liked this post, is it not, Christophany? It causes one to wonder why he seems so troubled with what folks like me and Enoch are saying. But... so be it. Grace and peace to you!

Well, false trinitarians, sure. I don't really have a "beef" with them, but deny what they teach. But again, I'm still wondering who these "trinitarians" of whom you speak are. Well, because they are. :) Again, who are they? Do you just not want to answer that? In that they've been wrong...

This is an EXCELLENT question, APAK. I would like to hear your answer to that. It seems you and I would both agree with Paul when he writes... "For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter...

Yeah... what "trinitarian theologians / scholars," Matthias? That's the question. The very wrong ones, it seems, and you are then attributing that to several of us here, in error. That's the point. As for "parroting".... understood. Stop. :) Oh, my. Such misunderstanding, by Schaff and...

This is not what trinitarians believe, APAK. Not at all. Yes, agreed; such a belief is completely wrong. That's what non-trinitarians believe... Jehovah's Witnesses in particular. Grace and peace to you.

We all ~ at least most everyone here, as I can only really speak for myself ~ agree that Christ Himself is not two separate persons, Matthias. But He was both of God (fully God in essence; possessing the same nature as the Father and the Spirit) and of man (fully man; of man's essence...

This is the first time I've ever heard someone attacking historical orthodox trinitarianism by attacking historical orthodox trinitarianism. Maybe we should just let it happen; it's much like chewing off one's own extremities... It is encouraging, though, that Jews believe in trinitarianism...

No, if Jesus was not created ~ which is true ~ then that means (among many other things) that He's eternal and self-existing, which which only God can be. Ergo, Jesus is God, the second Person of the triune Jehovah. Right, well, sure, He was. As Paul says in Philippians 2, although He was in...

Jesus was not created. As John says: "He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:2) Paul's context in Colossians 1:15 is that Jesus is preeminent over all creation, just as David ~ what was the youngest...

I do, actually. I've heard it all many times before. Well, I don't "have you saying that," per se, but if what you're saying were true, that would be the inevitable result. Grace and peace to you.

Sure. Well, agreed, but regarding the things we are talking about, no one is going to be persuaded unless the Holy Spirit helps them to discern correctly. This is His job. :) They may think they have come to know things, but they may not have... :) Job found this out the hard way, starting...

Right. Not "It is finished until the next time you sin," but rather, "IT. IS. FINISHED." :) Thank you, brother Farouk. Grace and peace!

Right, that certainly is a delusion. And no good "OSASer" believes such a heresy. Thus the misguidedness of your "crusade" against "OSASers." :) Christ's righteousness is credited to us, imputed to us, because of our believing God (just as was the case long ago with Abraham). And, if we...

Much the same to you, my friend. Grace and peace to you.

Ah yes, more "information." Yes, let's have it... :) And I... may not. :) Meaning you pretty much copied and pasted a bunch of stuff. Okay. :) Right, that's true, but that's not all. Well, verse 8 is not just about His eternality. But it is assuredly indicative of His eternality. It...

Well, but but you're stopping short of the fact that He is of Jehovah and just as deific as and equal in glory to the Father, possessing all the same attributes as the Father. This is the terrible inconsistency of your position. Jesus was not created; rather all things were created through Him...

To some, it is, yes, because they erroneously think there are "hundreds of verses that preclude" the triune Jehovah. There are none ~ they actually do quite the opposite ~ so it's quite the same story in that respect. Are you trying to make some kind of correlation in what you say here to what...

Good for you. Now... "Son of God." Be consistent, my friend. You are seemingly very close. Grace and peace to you.

I'm... well aware of that, JohnPaul. That's unfortunate. But again... well, let me ask it this way (and again, it's rhetorical, really): How then, do you read Christ referring to Himself as the Son of Man? How is this ~ in your view ~ different to His referring to Himself as the Son of God...

This is worth a look. It's worth an infinite number of looks, really, but let's look at it: "...though He was in the form of God... emptied Himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to...