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GP I feel the the Early Church Fathers is a very important group of persons since they were taught by the Apostles. Here are some of their ideas on obeying God: Ignatius of Antioch (? - 102? A.D.) (taught by Peter and John) Letter to Polycarp, 6 Toil and train together, run and suffer...

Understood. But I was just defining the terms. But let's not derail.... :)

Fine. But you're the one who brought it up.

Unbelievers do not NEED to obey. Must we continue round and round. DO BELIEVERS NEED TO OBEY? One word answer.

Did you just state above that you might be lured into a false sense of security by following the rules of God? :oops:

Nice ideas C.... But you say that two readers will come away with two different ideas. So are you saying that the NT does NOT CONTAIN THE TRUTH? This is an interesting concept. OR Do you believe that, perhaps, one of the readers is incorrect in their interpretation of scripture?

The best I can gather is that you believe obedience is a work. If that's so, then you'll just have to keep believing that. But it's not anywhere in the NT. Jesus says we are to LISTEN TO/ACT UPON His words/teachings, Matthew 7:24 eeeeeeee Paul admonishes us in every letter of his to obey the...

Justification is not salvation? Just too many inconsistencies to even be able to deal with. God empowers you to do good works. But it's YOU that is doing them. Your verses: Verse 3 Abraham believed God and it counted to him as righteousness. Verse 4 We cannot work for our salvation. Verse 5...

Agreed. It's necessary to obey God once we become believers. :thumbsup:

While you're searching for your feet Oneoff, I just want to say that I agree with you. I just don't understand what it has to do with obeying God.... Let's make it simple, as it should be: If a person believes in God and obeys God....he's saved. That's all God asks.

Not too sure what you mean by your first 2 sentences. But how does the rest fit into what we're discussing? Seems to be an entirely different topic....

Some of them do. I don't see anymore exactly what we're debating here. We both believe God is to be obeyed. So,,, What if we don't obey Him? Jesus said we should confess our sins. John said we should confess our sins. What sins exactly are we confessing? We're confessing sins that demonstrate...

To clarify: If disbelieve means to disobey.... then To believe means to obey.... And I don't wish to get lost on this one verse.... there are so many others. I do understand what you're saying...

Right. And those ravenous wolves teach incorrect doctrine... That's why Jesus admonishes them. That's why He goes on to tell the story of the wise man THAT LISTENS TO JESUS' words and not those of the false prophets. And about reading books.... Yes. I think it could be dangerous and I've read...

@mailmandan 2 of 2 AND here is what disbelieve means: It's tough to get away from what the NT actually teaches..... 569. apisteó ► Strong's Concordance apisteó: to disbelieve, be faithless Original Word: ἀπιστέω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apisteó Phonetic Spelling...

This is nonsense MD: Trying to go to different versions to uphold your incorrect theory. First of all the greek word BELEIVE has a connotation of OBEY in it. The greek word UNBELIEF has the connotation of DISOBEDIENCE in it. You and those that believe as you do desperately add words to what the...

Verses. OK 1 Peter 1:17-23 17If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth; 18knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life...

OK. I understand. You don't believe works KEEP us saved. It's still not taught in the NT. Here's John 3:36 again: 36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” The above is beyond clear. IF we believe...

Let's go through some definitions: I believe in Eternal Security because that is what the NT teaches. Perseverance of the Saints Calvists /Reformed believe this to be true. God CHOOSES those that will be saved...so since it's GOD THAT CHOOSES, they teach that a person MUST ACCEPT God's Grace...

Let me make this very clear to you Behold. YOUR POST is lacking substance. What Jesus said and taught - which you do not seem to know - is life-giving and does NOT LACK SUBSTANCE. Please don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.