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Is the 1 Thess 4.17 cloud stopover to gather the saved just a short pause on the way down to earth ? Please state the text that confirms that so that we can try and understand why you believe the way you do.

+++++So the vagueness of that kind of declaration leads many to assume and presume things that are not biblical. Text taught by Jesus via Paul is clear & easy to understand Faith and trust in the death and burial and resurrection of Christ equals saved, forgiven of all sin Col 2.13 and sealed...

+++++I suppose that's what Christianity has come down to these days. Do you profess to no longer sin ?

++++No. 1 Thes 4 is talking about the rapture of the Church. The rapture of the Church happens before the seals are opened, before the great tribulation. That's the way I see it too Light

+++++It seems as if the miracles are typically seen in third world countries... Please list a modern day confirmed documented miracle of equivalent caliber as in Acts 3.1-10 eg A lame adult from birth who gets up and walks instantly as in Acts 3.1-10, now that's what I call a miracle.

A good common logical factual post Taken

I am unaware that the Bible teaches Mary did not ever have relations with Joseph and since Biblical marriage is also for the purpose of reproduction then good luck to anyone dogma beaten enough to try and prove Mary never had sex

Hello Peter. I see you are fellow Aussie and correct in what you write

+++++He went from the Earth to Heaven, and will come down from Heaven to the Earth again. Yes yet what are the verses that confirm the 1 Thes 4.17 cloud gathering of believers is part of the same journey back down to ground.

Yes after Gal 2.2 and Acts 15 GAL 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, ACTS 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. ACTS 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence...

+++Sorry, what I meant that it is not the teachings that save, but Jesus Christ saves Yes and in 2026 the teachings of Jesus via Paul tell us how we are saved 1 Cr 15.1-4 Believe and trust in the death and burial and resurrection of Jesus for the forgiveness of all sins.

I would like to read the verses that teach Jesus coming down into the 1 Thes 4.17 clouds is a short ? stop over on the way down to landing on the ground.

++++++So what you should do is stop calling believers sinners. ++++++That puts believers in the same category as unbelievers. What I do do is tell it how it is, all believers still sin as do unbelievers with the difference being that unbelievers are not saved.

Do you think the Bible confirms Mary did not have 'relations' with her husband after the birth of Jesus ?

From what I see they appear to come out from anywhere, it would be nice to interact with the ones who are interested in having a polite and rational and evidence based discussion

+++++I don't agree that anybody is saved by the teachings of Paul Of course they are since the teachings of Paul are the teachings of Jesus that apply in 2026

Contrary to popular belief within Roman Catholicism, the doctrine of Mary’s perpetual virginity was not universally held by the early church. In fact, early Christian writings indicate that this belief was not remotely a standard doctrine during the first few centuries of the church. The...

Therefore, the consistent use of ἀδελφός (adelphos) throughout the New Testament proves that these were indeed Jesus’ biological siblings. To claim that every other use of this term (adelphos) by multiple apostles meant something different only when speaking of Jesus’ relations—suggesting it...

Please list your PhD qualifications as a NT Greek to English translation expert.

https://christiancourier.com/articles/the-alleged-perpetual-virginity-of-mary