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  1. Butch5

    Once Saved, Always Saved?

    But, if we read on in John we find that Jesus did say that one was lost. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (Jn. 17:12 KJV) Jesus Himself...
  2. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    His logic is flawed for sure. However, since an argument can't be made from Scripture to support his claim he has to continue to repeat the propaganda.
  3. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    If you knew the Scriptures you wouldn't need to ask. But since you asked. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (Jn. 8:42 KJV)
  4. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    It's clear that you don't take the Scriptures seriously. If you did you would engage the passages. Jesus said the Father is the only true God, Paul said, 'to us there is one God, the Father. They both made a distinction between Jesus and the Father. You can ignore that and go on believing in...
  5. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Here in lies your problem. You're buying into arguments against Scripture. You're defying sound logic and grasping fantasies. Jesus Himself said that the Father is the only true God. Jesus said, He came out of the Father. Paul said, 'to us there is one God, the Father'. Both Jesus and Paul make...
  6. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Actually, I can. But, even if I couldn't that doesn't prove He did exist. You're making an assumption.
  7. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    That's funny. You saying some disagrees with the word of God. You disagree with Jesus Himself. He said to the Father that He was the only Ture God. You disagree with that.
  8. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    I'm not sure what this has to do with what I posted. However, Stephen didn't go to Heaven. John, writing much later, said no man has ascended into Heaven except Jesus.
  9. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Nothing in that statement says Jesus existed in eternity past. It simply says He existed before Abraham. You're reading your beliefs into the passage. You can make stuff up if you want to, but the passage is clear. The Father is never subject to the Son and the Son will be subject to the...
  10. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    He didn't say it, it's the conclusion of His statement. He is quoting the passage in Exodus. If by, Jesus is God, you mean He is deity, I agree. If you mean He is the one true God, then I disagree. He said the Father is the one true God.
  11. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    You ignore His own words. He said that He came out of the Father. That means He had a beginning. "Firstborn," in Paul's context, is regarding preeminence, and not merely "born before anyone else" ~ the very same context in which David is made firstborn, though he was actually the last born in...
  12. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    You're missing the point. Jesus isn't claiming to have existed forever. He's alluding to the burning bush. Jesus didn't exist since eternity past. Paul said that Jesus was the first born of all creation. NAS Colossians 1:15 And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all...
  13. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    No, He doesn't mention Moses, but the title "I AM" is what the Angel said to Moses. In the passage the Angel or messenger of the Lord appears to Moses and God speaks through Him. The Angel of the Lord in this case is Jesus, He spoke for God in the first person. He said, 14 And God said unto...
  14. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Sorry, I'm not following you here. The passage in Exodus tells us that the Angel of the LORD appeared in the bush. It doesn't say God appeared in the bush. In John Jesus is telling the Jews that it was Him who spoke to Moses.
  15. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    Actually, I don't think Jesus' statement in John 8:58 declares He is God. We are told in the passage in Exodus that the Angel or messenger of the Lord appeared in the bush. Jesus statement in John 8:58 is a declaration that it was Him who spoke to Moses. Jesus also said that the words He spoke...
  16. Butch5

    Where do aborted babies go?

    Yes. There is no consciousness in death. People return to the dust.
  17. Butch5

    Please Argue with me about Head Coverings

    You're correct, it's not about marriage. In his work Tertullian explained what was being practiced by the church in his day. There was a question as to whether the veiling was for married women only or also virgins. His conclusion was, look at the Corinthians. Paul wrote the letter to them, what...
  18. Butch5

    A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

    It's not. Paul said to the Corinthians, 'to us there is one God, the Father, and one Lord, Jesus Christ'. In the passage you referenced Paul names the Lord that he is referring to. However, Jesus Himself said that the words He spoke were not His but the Father's. Thus, following Christ is...
  19. Butch5

    Where do aborted babies go?

    They go to the grave like everyone else. They will remain there till the Resurrection like everyone else.