“...are escaped of the house of Jacob.”

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VictoryinJesus

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That maybe it is those "of the house of Jacob" who somehow escaped? from? is left dangling?

Dangling where?

It is ok. Even if you did the research to dig it up, I probably wouldn’t understand it.
 

bbyrd009

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Why smite the shepherd?
ostensibly so that the sheep will be scattered, but this could be asked in other more revealing ways maybe, why do spoiled kids say they hate a parent that only has the best in mind for them? Why does the world seem more attractive than the earth maybe, or even why do we forget our First Love? We all had a reliable Shepherd as little kids, and grown-ups were clearly insane or at least seriously troubled, so how did we become the same? Why do we ask little kids what should be done in a certain matter so we can laugh at the joke? i'm just riffing here, maybe "shepherd" has some other pertinent symbology for you, but even reading literally we know that the Shepherd was not smote, right, the Shepherd gave up willingly, iow declined to contest or even try to compete with any adversary, would not say a word in answer to any accuser, etc.
 
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bbyrd009

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Dangling where?

It is ok. Even if you did the research to dig it up, I probably wouldn’t understand it.
if I am "escaped of the house of Jacob" it might easily be misunderstood that I am still of the house of Jacob, and that I have escaped...something, something else other than the house of Jacob, a la "those of the house of Jacob who have escaped ________," rather than "escaped from the house of J," the guy who incidentally made the "red stuff" that we all crave. ps, there is nothing wrong per se with "the House of Jacob," it is a great house to learn stuff that needs to be learned, imo, i'm not meaning to imply "Jacob bad" here. They applied the law of sin and death literally, that's all, with the best of intentions surely. God has a Law of sin and death too, right, only He needs no humans to go about enforcing that for Him? But see, we want to kill the scapegoat, right. Believers (certainly not God) need Jesus to be dead, sacrificed, etc. I desire mercy, not sacrifice
 
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farouk

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Isaiah 10:20
[20] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord , the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

“...are escaped if the house of Jacob,”

? Isaiah 10:21
[21] The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.
Good to remember this is not talking about the church.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Good to remember this is not talking about the church.

Ephesians 3:9-15
[9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: [10] To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, [11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: [12] In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. [13] Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. [14] For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, [15] Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Why divide what God has joined together? Ephesians 2:14-18
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
 
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farouk

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Ephesians 3:9-15
[9] And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: [10] To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, [11] According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: [12] In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. [13] Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. [14] For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, [15] Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Why divide what God has joined together? Ephesians 2:14-18
[14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us ; [15] Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; [16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: [17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Ephesians is all about the revealed mystery of the church.
 

Enoch111

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I’m curious. Why is it so important to keep them separate? Israel is not Spirit?
What exactly do you mean by "Israel is not Spirit"? The Church is believing Jews and Gentiles in one Body (without distinctions) until the Resurrection/Rapture, when the fulness of the Gentiles will be completed.

Following that God will resume His dealings with Israel directly through Christ. Study Romans 11 carefully in conjunction with all the prophecies concerning redeemed and restored Israel on earth.

As to the importance of keeping Israel separate, God has an important and vital role for Israel on earth for eternity, and its influence on all the saved nations of the earth.
 

VictoryinJesus

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What exactly do you mean by "Israel is not Spirit"? The Church is believing Jews and Gentiles in one Body (without distinctions) until the Resurrection/Rapture, when the fulness of the Gentiles will be completed.

Following that God will resume His dealings with Israel directly through Christ. Study Romans 11 carefully in conjunction with all the prophecies concerning redeemed and restored Israel on earth.

As to the importance of keeping Israel separate, God has an important and vital role for Israel on earth for eternity, and its influence on all the saved nations of the earth.

It was a question...is Israel not Spirit. We both agree yes, correct? Are there two Spirits then? Cause when the word says we come to not a mountain burning that can’t be approached but to a heavenly host of men made perfect that includes Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. If we are Spirit...we are born of the same Spirit and promise. Same promise made to Abraham. The only reason for saying the Spirit of God is divided (Israel and church) is: how do our endtime views hold up to God of Abraham and Israel are Spirit and the same Spirit we are born of. Not a Spirit divided...but a family. Fellowship. Made whole. Not in halves.

Daniel 8:13-14
[13] Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice , and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? [14] And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

What sanctuary shall be cleansed??

Matthew 27:40-43
[40] And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross. [41] Likewise also the chief priests mocking him , with the scribes and elders, said, [42] He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. [43] He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
[1] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die;

a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

A time to kill, and a time to heal;

a time to break down, and a time to build up;

A time to weep, and a time to laugh;

a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;

a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to get, and a time to lose;

a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

A time to rend, and a time to sew;

a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

A time to love, and a time to hate;

a time of war, and a time of peace.

1 Peter 2:5 KJV
[5] Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Israel ...Spirit.
Which we are born of.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Following that God will resume His dealings with Israel directly through Christ.

Romans 11:31-33
[31] Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. [32] For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. [33] O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Notice: Abraham and Isaac together in the kingdom. Father and son. Not separated. John 14:23
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
 
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Enoch111

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The only reason for saying the Spirit of God is divided (Israel and church) is: how do our endtime views hold up to God of Abraham and Israel are Spirit and the same Spirit we are born of. Not a Spirit divided...but a family. Fellowship. Made whole. Not in halves.
You have a serious misapprehension about this. The Kingdom of God is not divided but consists of two entities, and both groups are regenerated but have different purposes. The Church will be in the New Jerusalem while Israel will be on earth.

If you had two children and gave them different responsibilities, that would not be dividing the family would it?
 

VictoryinJesus

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You have a serious misapprehension about this. The Kingdom of God is not divided but consists of two entities, and both groups are regenerated but have different purposes. The Church will be in the New Jerusalem while Israel will be on earth.

If you had two children and gave them different responsibilities, that would not be dividing the family would it?

The children of God? Is that the children you refer to? Does He give one child different responsibilities from another...of course. Look at all the different functions of the whole body in submission to the Head. Still...
(1 Corinthians 12:3-30)Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. (Spirit)[4] Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. [5] And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. [6] And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

The same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

On that note since you say Israel is not a part of “the Church” but separate then “prophets” here applies solely to “the Church” today? Not to Israel? “And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. [29] Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? [30] Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?”
 

VictoryinJesus

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Which means that you destroyed your own argument about Christ being divided.

1 Corinthians 1:13
[13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

Many functions...One body. You and I may have different functions within the body yet would you say because my function is different from yours, I am of another body? ...a separate entity?

Romans 12:4
[4] For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

1 Corinthians 12:8-14
[8] For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; [9] To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; [10] To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: [11] But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. [12] For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. [13] For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. [14] For the body is not one member, but many.

1 Corinthians 12:28
[28] And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


So I will ask you bluntly: ‘secondarily prophets’ are they of the one same body? What ‘prophets’ ? of the church body or...another entity as you say? What prophets are included in 1 Corinthians 12? If that is not Israel, then you are admitting the office of prophets did not end with Christ and is very much a part of the church body today? Or what you define as the church(an separate entity from Israel), doesn’t hold up to scripture. Has the office of prophets ended since Christ, or not?
 

lforrest

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Interesting, just today I was thinking about Jacob being so called by God even after receiving the name Israel.

God doesn't call himself God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel afterall.

I think it not an issue of spiritual vs non spiritual, Otherwise the scripture would be as above.