“Fight The Good Fight . . . Of Faith”

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Netchaplain

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By the body of the Lord Jesus on the Cross believers were made dead to the law (a), in order righteously to be joined to Another, even the risen Lord. The reason why we had to die to the law was seen to be, not at all because the law was bad (it, on the contrary, was “holy, just and good”), but because we were bad.

That is, our flesh was so powerless to do good and so ready to do evil, that the application to us of God’s law, as Paul did, he has not power to keep it, but sin only makes the law a constant means of working death to him; and the more a man tries to keep the law the more he comes under the power of sin. “The strength of sin is the law” (1 Cor 15:56). So that there is only this left for us—to die to the law, and be joined to the risen Lord in a resurrection realm absolutely beyond the sphere of the law.

A great many people think that while sinners have no power against sin, saints have; that is, that God gives the new creature strength in itself to overcome indwelling sin. But this is a fatal error. Many, many Christians today are struggling against sin, with the idea that God expects them, since they have become His children and have learned to hate sin, to “pray for divine help” and then “fight the good fight” against sin. And so they struggle manfully, but with what sorry success because their whole theory is in error. It is because they do not finish the verse “Fight the good fight . . . of faith.” God has not given us, even in our new nature, power over sin. His plan is entirely different: He Himself becomes the power in us that overcomes sin. He does not delegate this power ( B). He said, “All power is given unto Me,” so He Himself exercises it within us, in the person of the Holy Spirit, who has come to dwell in us for the very purpose of delivering us from the power of indwelling sin.

It is an outright perversion of the truth of God to teach (as did the Puritans and as do the Covenant theologians) that while we are not to keep the law as a means of salvation, we are yet under it as a “rule of life.” This is to take away the taskmaster’s whip, and yet expect him to rule those subjects which he could barely govern while he has his whip. Such teaching is in the theory of Antinomian (lawlessness), for it takes away the condemnatory power of the law upon those that are still allegedly under the law. But in practice this teaching is legal enough.

Let a Christian only confess, “I am under the law” and straightway Moses fastens his yoke upon him, despite all the protests that the law has lost its condemning power. Men have to be delivered from the whole legal principle, from the entire sphere where law reigns, ere true liberty can be found. This was done on the Cross. There we “died unto the law” (Gal 2:19); we were there “discharged from the law” (Rom 7:6); and are now “not under the law” (Rom 6:14). And those who, with child-like faith, believe this enter the blessed sphere where grace reigns, and the law of love is a delight, and where the service is in “newness of the Spirit,” not is “oldness of the letter.” The Holy Spirit, indwelling the believer, performs in him the will of the Father, whose will, at last, is His will (Rom 8:3, 4; 12:2).

-Wm R Newell


(a) Gentile/law of sin and death—Jew/this and the Law of Moses
( B) This is not to be confused with “power to tread on serpents” as in Luke 10:19, which did not concern the power of sin itself but of sinful angels, e.g. vs 17, 20)
-NC
 

Episkopos

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A great many people think that while sinners have no power against sin, saints have; that is, that God gives the new creature strength in itself to overcome indwelling sin. But this is a fatal error.

Here is the direct attack on the truth! He's brazen he is!

The late William R. Newell, a Christian author, once remarked, "If you remove Paul's epistles from the Bible, you will be bereft of Christian doctrine."

I'll say!! There's no way twist the words of Jesus like you can those of Paul...

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
Here is the direct attack on the truth! He's brazen he is!



I'll say!! There's no way twist the words of Jesus like you can those of Paul...

Rom_3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
It would be more accurate in determining that the material has a difference of understanding. To see actual truth and not comprehend it does not make it a "twist" but an evidence of the readers lack of "dividing the Word".


"If you remove Paul's epistles from the Bible, you will be bereft of Christian doctrine."

This is in reference to the concept that the Lord Jesus used Paul's ministry to explain what Jesus had not told His Apostles concerning "My Church" which is not revealed prior to God using Paul to reveal it.

Jesus only mentioned it (Matt 16:18) and waited until He revealed it through Paul.
 

Episkopos

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NetChaplain said:
It would be more accurate in determining that the material has a difference of understanding. To see actual truth and not comprehend it does not make it a "twist" but an evidence of the readers lack of "dividing the Word".


"If you remove Paul's epistles from the Bible, you will be bereft of Christian doctrine."

This is in reference to the concept that the Lord Jesus used Paul's ministry to explain what Jesus had not told His Apostles concerning "My Church" which is not revealed prior to God using Paul to reveal it.

Jesus only mentioned it (Matt 16:18) and waited until He revealed it through Paul.

This is rather convenient in that we are supposed to follow Christ not Paul. Jesus covered all of what Paul talks about. Paul clarifies issues that have come up...as does Peter, John, James and Jude.

But Peter also says of Paul...


2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is curious then that such a difficult apostle to understand would be the focus of they who seek to confound the simple words of Christ.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
This is rather convenient in that we are supposed to follow Christ not Paul. Jesus covered all of what Paul talks about. Paul clarifies issues that have come up...as does Peter, John, James and Jude.

It is curious then that such a difficult apostle to understand would be the focus of they who seek to confound the simple words of Christ.
It's okay but I don't think you understand the material enough, which seems to be evident from your statement. It's common knowledge that everything an Apostle wrote was of Christ, which cannot be opposed to Christ in doctrinal context.

Many believers are still unaware of Christ's use of Paul's ministry because it mostly concerns the mystery of the Church (Eph 5:32), His Body and Bride.

Paul's ministry did not vary in significance to the other Apostles, but contained revelation which primarily was through him. His ministry was just an addition to the building of the "Body of Christ," from which the others were used to begin. This doesn't not include Christ because He is the subject and center of all which the Apostles disclosed.
 

daq

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NetChaplain said:
By the body of the Lord Jesus on the Cross believers were made dead to the law (a), in order righteously to be joined to Another, even the risen Lord.
NetChaplain said:
It's okay but I don't think you understand the material enough, which seems to be evident from your statement. It's common knowledge that everything an Apostle wrote was of Christ, which cannot be opposed to Christ in doctrinal context.

Many believers are still unaware of Christ's use of Paul's ministry because it mostly concerns the mystery of the Church (Eph 5:32), His Body and Bride.

Paul's ministry did not vary in significance to the other Apostles, but contained revelation which primarily was through him. His ministry was just an addition to the building of the "Body of Christ," from which the others were used to begin. This doesn't not include Christ because He is the subject and center of all which the Apostles disclosed.
I do not care to do much of this kind of thing because it generally boils down to "he said she said" and accusations of "private interpretation" but here in this case you are flat out wrong and there simply are not any English translations that incorporate the truth from the Genesis creation account where it is clearly stated that the two become one flesh. The woman therefore BECOMES the man as if they were in fact one flesh and this is how Paul clearly sees these things in other passages. The reason this is so important is because this is how Paul forms this legal argument. For the same reason he does not employ the word commonly used for "marriage" or "nuptials" ("gamos") but rather "ginomai" which is "to become" and in this case it concerns "becoming another man" whether in the case of the woman, widow, adulteress, or divorced woman.

Romans 7:3-4 TUA (Transliterated Unaccented Bible)
3. Ara oun zontos tou andros moichalis chrematisei ean genetai andri hetero, ean de apothane ho aner, eleuthera estin apo tou nomou, tou me einai auten moichalida genomenen andri hetero.

3. Accordingly then, the man living, she will be titled an adulteress if she BECOMES another man; but if the man apothnesko-dies off, free she is from that law, that not she will be an adulteress having BECOME another man.
4. Hoste, adelfoi mou, kai humeis ethanatothete tonomo dia tou somatos tou Christou, eis to genesthai humas hetero, to ek nekron egerthenti, hina karpoforesomen to Theo.
4. So too, my brethren, also you were thanatoo-mortified of/the law through the body of the Christou, toward the BECOMING of you another; the raised from the dead, so that we should bring forth fruit to God.

Knowing already what your reply will likely consist of I offer the following passages in addition. We are not "the bride" of Messiah but rather we are his brethren in and of his own body if indeed we partake thereof. We become one with the Master and the fruits we bear are like the fruits of a tree; which fruits we bear unto the Father, the Great Husbandman and Planter of the Olivet Tree. Moreover, the women are the cities are the Covenants.

According to John the Baptist Yeshua already had "the Bride" given from Above:

John 3:27-35 KJV
27. John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30. He must increase, but I must decrease.
31. He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.


Yeshua already had "the Bride" at the Triumphal Entry:

Matthew 21:4-5 KJV
4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5. Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Zechariah 9:9-11 KJV
9. Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
10. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth.
11. As for thee also,
by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.

We are forewarned, even commanded, how we are to liken ourselves:

Luke 12:35-42 KJV
35. Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
36.
And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. [Revelation 3:20]
37. Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
38. And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
39. And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
40. Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41. Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?


There is no way Paul would be in contradiction with the Gospel account of Luke "the Physician" (Colossians 4:14). :)
 

Episkopos

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NetChaplain said:
It's okay but I don't think you understand the material enough, which seems to be evident from your statement. It's common knowledge that everything an Apostle wrote was of Christ, which cannot be opposed to Christ in doctrinal context.

Many believers are still unaware of Christ's use of Paul's ministry because it mostly concerns the mystery of the Church (Eph 5:32), His Body and Bride.

Paul's ministry did not vary in significance to the other Apostles, but contained revelation which primarily was through him. His ministry was just an addition to the building of the "Body of Christ," from which the others were used to begin. This doesn't not include Christ because He is the subject and center of all which the Apostles disclosed.

Paul's message sure sounds a whole lot easier than those other bible writers. Easy enough to make a popular doctrine with.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
Paul's message sure sounds a whole lot easier than those other bible writers. Easy enough to make a popular doctrine with.
Not sure I understand your comment but it doesn't seem useful towards anything instructional.

Wishing You His Best
 

Episkopos

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NetChaplain said:
Not sure I understand your comment but it doesn't seem useful towards anything instructional.

Wishing You His Best

What I'm drawing attention to is the fact that God said to listen to His Son. So we have to read doctrine through the words of Christ and not what we think Paul is saying.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
What I'm drawing attention to is the fact that God said to listen to His Son. So we have to read doctrine through the words of Christ and not what we think Paul is saying.

Okay, I see your meaning and find it good intent, but what Paul said and wrote is what Christ showed him to say and write: "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do" (Acts 9:6).

When the Father said "hear ye Him" it was directed mainly to the Apostles (Peter, James and John) at that time, but is of-course intended for all. The idea of what one thinks Paul is saying came be used in the same manner as what one thinks Jesus is saying, so that's not an accurate conception.

Everything an Apostle disclosed was what the Father, in His Son and by Their Holy Spirit disclosed to them to relate to others.
 

Episkopos

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NetChaplain said:
Okay, I see your meaning and find it good intent, but what Paul said and wrote is what Christ showed him to say and write: "And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do" (Acts 9:6).

When the Father said "hear ye Him" it was directed mainly to the Apostles (Peter, James and John) at that time, but is of-course intended for all. The idea of what one thinks Paul is saying came be used in the same manner as what one thinks Jesus is saying, so that's not an accurate conception.

Everything an Apostle disclosed was what the Father, in His Son and by Their Holy Spirit disclosed to them to relate to others.

But there is a definite divergence between those who read Jesus through Paul and those who read Paul through Jesus.
 

Netchaplain

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Episkopos said:
But there is a definite divergence between those who read Jesus through Paul and those who read Paul through Jesus.
I believe there is much to say concerning the problem that too many do not read Jesus through the Apostles.
 

mjrhealth

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1Co_7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
1Co_7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

In one He says the Lord says, in the other he says I say??

It isnt always Jesus,teh disciples where human too.

In all HisLove
 

Netchaplain

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mjrhealth said:
1Co_7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
1Co_7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

In one He says the Lord says, in the other he says I say??

It isnt always Jesus,teh disciples where human too.

In all HisLove
Pretty succinct MJ - What I've learned here is that Paul was sharing that there is not always clear direction from the teachings of Christ to an Apostle concerning certain matters (this one being the sole Scriptural example) and his "judgment" (discernment) here is no less significantly inspired by God because he always taught under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, who is the author of the written Word (2 Tim 3:16; 2 Pet 1:21), which means it's still Scripture and God directed:

". . . According to my judgment; and I think I also have the Spirit of God" (v 40),
 

mjrhealth

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I guess the same could be said about women wearing coverings over there heads, certainly not from Jesus, but a remnant from there past religious days. They where human, not always inspired by the Holy Spirit as Jesus continually pointed out.

Get thee behind me satan???


In all His Love
 

daq

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mjrhealth said:
I guess the same could be said about women wearing coverings over there heads, certainly not from Jesus, but a remnant from there past religious days. They where human, not always inspired by the Holy Spirit as Jesus continually pointed out.

Get thee behind me satan???


In all His Love
Virgins, widows, and women-wives are not all the same thing in the Scripture. A "gune" is a "wife" but the English translators have used the word against "women" wheresoever they chose, (in other words it is subjective to the interpreter whether "woman" or "wife" is intended where "gune"-gunaika is employed). It is not all "women" that need a head covering, (i.e. it is implied that "Junia" is an apostle in Romans 16:7) for in the kingdom of God there is neither male nor female once a disciple becomes "a son". It is rather a "wife" that needs to have a head covering because she is married, (for the same reason Paul states "because of the angels") and as stated previously above, in the Hebrew mindset, even according the Book of Genesis which is likewise Torah, THE WIFE BECOMES ONE FLESH WITH HER HUSBAND. :)