1 Cor. 15:20-28

[Thaddaeus]

RichardBurger,
It was said: quote "What (or Who) the Church itself is, is Christ"
Yes, but can you refute it from scripture. What does Scripture say?
I did not say this but someone else did. The person that said this is saying their physical, man ran, organized church "is Christ." But now the person is denying he said it.
who made that statement? So far the only person to assert anything like it has been you.
In my post "Physical and Spiritual churches defined" on this forum I have refuted that the physical, man ran, organized church is the church Jesus has established. In my new post "When did the RCC begin" I have refuted the claims of the RCC.
so what. Anyone can do that. It does not support your view however.
The church for today that He (Jesus) established exists in the hearts of the children of God.
Can you actually support that with Scripture? It is your opinion again?
Anyone that thinks the physical, man ran, organized church that has persecuted men down throught the centuries is the body of Christ is foolish
Again, who on this board has so asserted, except you. You have created a straw man, but in doing so, you still have not given any evidence of yoru view from scripture.

 

[RichardBurger]

(tim_from_pa;55542)
Well, all I can say is LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem.Mount Zion and Jerusalem is on Earth.
You are absolutely correct. He will reign on this earth for 1000 years and then hand the keys to His kingdom back to God the Father.However, that will be after the Church of His Body has been taken out of this world (raptured = caught up into the clouds). God's children are not children of wrath and will not go through the 7 years of Jacob's trouble.

 

[Jordan]

(RichardBurger;55563)
(tim_from_pa;55542)
Well, all I can say is LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem.Mount Zion and Jerusalem is on Earth.
You are absolutely correct. He will reign on this earth for 1000 years and then hand the keys to His kingdom back to God the Father.However, that will be after the Church of His Body has been taken out of this world (raptured = caught up into the clouds). God's children are not children of wrath and will not go through the 7 years of Jacob's trouble.Do you realize that Lord Jesus Christ is coming back AFTER Satan is coming back? Do you realize we will go through the Tribulation? And besides the word cloud in that verse you are assuming is not a literal cloud at all.

 

[tomwebster]

(RichardBurger;55563)
....However, that will be after the Church of His Body has been taken out of this world (raptured = caught up into the clouds)....
This is a 100% FALSE statement. The rapture is a false doctrine.

 

[RichardBurger]

The Rapture and the RevelationScripture Reading:*** Matthew 25:31; I Thessalonians 4:16, 17*As we "rightly divide the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15), one of the key distinctions that emerges is the difference between the Rapture and the second coming of Christ. Bible teachers have long mixed the two and have led their hearers into needless confusion.The second coming of Christ (also known as the "revelation" of Jesus Christ) was prophesied throughout the Old Testament, and it involves the return of Jesus Christ to the earth to set up His throne in Jerusalem. Zechariah writes, "And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zechariah 14:4a). This, of course, is the same location at which He left the earth two thousand years ago (Acts 1:10-12). "When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory" (Matthew 25:31). This will signal the beginning of Christ's earthly kingdom. All of this takes place "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29a).Like the gospel of God's grace the Rapture was a secret, not revealed in Old Testament times. Paul includes it as part of the great Mystery revealed to him (see I Corinthians 15:51). The Rapture, or catching away of the Body of Christ, involves Christ's coming in the air (I Thessalonians 4:17), not to the earth as the second coming. The Rapture will occur before the tribulation period when God's wrath is poured out upon the earth, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thessalonians 5:9).

 

[Jordan]

(RichardBurger;55579)
The Rapture and the RevelationScripture Reading:*** Matthew 25:31; I Thessalonians 4:16, 17*As we "rightly divide the word of truth" (II Timothy 2:15), one of the key distinctions that emerges is the difference between the Rapture and the second coming of Christ. Bible teachers have long mixed the two and have led their hearers into needless confusion.The second coming of Christ (also known as the "revelation" of Jesus Christ) was prophesied throughout the Old Testament, and it involves the return of Jesus Christ to the earth to set up His throne in Jerusalem. Zechariah writes, "And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east" (Zechariah 14:4a). This, of course, is the same location at which He left the earth two thousand years ago (Acts 1:10-12). "When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory" (Matthew 25:31). This will signal the beginning of Christ's earthly kingdom. All of this takes place "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29a).Like the gospel of God's grace the Rapture was a secret, not revealed in Old Testament times. Paul includes it as part of the great Mystery revealed to him (see I Corinthians 15:51). The Rapture, or catching away of the Body of Christ, involves Christ's coming in the air (I Thessalonians 4:17), not to the earth as the second coming. The Rapture will occur before the tribulation period when God's wrath is poured out upon the earth, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thessalonians 5:9).
There is nothing new under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9) There is NO private interpretation in prophecy. (II Peter 1:20)Combing these two scripture are in effect of saying The Old Testament is New Testament concealed and New Testament is Old Testament revealed.So Richard, your man made theory is completely unprofitable and flawed.

 

[tomwebster]

RichardBurgerJust in case you have not read this:http://www.christianityboard.com/rapture-l...study-t506.htmlBring your rapture peresh somewhere else!

 

[RichardBurger]

(tomwebster;55584)
RichardBurgerJust in case you have not read this:http://www.christianityboard.com/rapture-l...study-t506.htmlBring your rapture peresh somewhere else!
All your page said is found in the scriptures. However your idea that they are all talking about the same event is just plain wrong. It is just as much an assumption on your part as it is on mine. Many believe as you do and just as many believe as I do.God will not allow His children to go through the tribulation (Jacobs trouble). If you believe the Bible you should know that the children of God are the church of His body and Jesus will not let His body go through God's judgement of wrath on those that have rejected Him. Why would He since they are declared righteous and sinless in Christ.But I am not going to argue with you and am begining to see that I am not welcome on this forum. More than 90 percent of the people on this forum are here to argue from the point that they have to be right. They can't just disagree they have to say these nice little tidbits "Bring your rapture peresh somewhere else" and "So Richard, your man made theory is completely unprofitable and flawed." Perhaps I will do just as you said. Looks like you have a closed forum, closed to all those that disagree with you. Some forum.Have fun

 

[Christina]

(RichardBurger;55598)
All your page said is found in the scriptures. However your idea that they are all talking about the same event is just plain wrong. It is just as much an assumption on your part as it is on mine. Many believe as you do and just as many believe as I do.God will not allow His children to go through the tribulation (Jacobs trouble). If you believe the Bible you should know that the children of God are the church of His body and Jesus will not let His body go through God's judgement of wrath on those that have rejected Him. Why would He since they are declared righteous and sinless in Christ.But I am not going to argue with you and am begining to see that I am not welcome on this forum. More than 90 percent of the people on this forum are here to argue from the point that they have to be right. They can't just disagree they have to say these nice little tidbits "Bring your rapture peresh somewhere else" and "So Richard, your man made theory is completely unprofitable and flawed." Perhaps I will do just as you said. Looks like you have a closed forum, closed to all those that disagree with you. Some forum.Have fun
You are free to believe what ever you like but sense there is no Pre trib rapture Theroy written in the sciptures you can not preach it here This is a Bible study site only. Please do not reply that it is in scripture it is not never was Thats why its called a theroy. If you want to discuss certain scripture that this theroy tries to prevert that is fine. But God will protect his own just like he did at Passover in Eygpt, And in the desert ect. God has always protected his own his way he doesnt need a made up doctrine if men to do that.So we ask that you stick to studying things of scripture here, not doctrines of men. Nothing personal we just will not take any part in purposely being a part of spreading a doctrine we feel is false.As Christ never taught it nor did God write it.

 

[RichardBurger]

(kriss;55712)
You are free to believe what ever you like but sense there is no Pre trib rapture Theroy written in the sciptures you can not preach it here This is a Bible study site only. Please do not reply that it is in scripture it is not never was Thats why its called a theroy. If you want to discuss certain scripture that this theroy tries to prevert that is fine. But God will protect his own just like he did at Passover in Eygpt, And in the desert ect. God has always protected his own his way he doesnt need a made up doctrine if men to do that.So we ask that you stick to studying things of scripture here, not doctrines of men. Nothing personal we just will not take any part in purposely being a part of spreading a doctrine we feel is false.As Christ never taught it nor did God write it.
Thank you kriss. Now I know this is a closed forum. Closed to anyone that disagrees with you and some of the rest.You said: “You are free to believe what ever you like but sense there is no Pre trib rapture Theory written in the scriptures you can not preach it here This is a Bible study site only.”Since there are many that do not believe water baptism saves anyone and some believe it does, which ones are you going to exclude? -- Since there are many that believe in salvation by faith alone and many that do not, which ones are you going to exclude?It is just your opinion that Pre-trib is not taught in the Bible Scriptures. There are many, many, Christians that disagree with you, just as I do. Are the people on this forum so insecure in their belief that they are afraid they might be persuaded to believe it too?

 

[tomwebster]

RichardBurger,I am not insecure about anything. Arguing with someone about the rapture is like arguing with someone that thinks Snow white and the seven dwarfs is true. It's a waste of time and we don't need to re-fight that battle here. You can always choose to fight that battle somewhere else.

 

[HammerStone]

It is just your opinion that Pre-trib is not taught in the Bible Scriptures. There are many, many, Christians that disagree with you, just as I do. Are the people on this forum so insecure in their belief that they are afraid they might be persuaded to believe it too?
It's not at all about insecurity. If it was insecurity, you'd rather clearly never have even had a chance to speak about this false doctrine. The reason, also stated just as clearly, as to why we are firmly against the rapture theory is that it's not just an issue to disagree on. Afterall, who judges - man or Christ? - when it comes to such things as baptism and belief. God knows your heart, he doesn't need to guess based on actions.However, there is a very real and very dangerous belief with the Rapture that will lead to some being lead astray when the fake shows up first promising to rapture folks out of the picture. As a Christian, I'm sure you can understand why we don't want to have any part in the deception of this doctrine. I for one will not have that on my conscience. If that's what you believe, go for it, but just know Scripture.We did "allow" this doctrine for a very long time, but unfortunately you rapture believer folks like to post essays and books on the subject that we simply don't have time to refute when it comes to endless hours of the same regurgitated nonsense. In light of II John, we chose to ban the deception.I like how people always attempt and write my own site's mission for me. We were never in the business of being the biggest, newest, or most popular here. I don't believe there is a requirement to be here, either, for that matter.

 

[waquinas]

With Denver on this one.:study:

 

[treeoflife]

(Denver;55765)
It's not at all about insecurity. If it was insecurity, you'd rather clearly never have even had a chance to speak about this false doctrine. The reason, also stated just as clearly, as to why we are firmly against the rapture theory is that it's not just an issue to disagree on. Afterall, who judges - man or Christ? - when it comes to such things as baptism and belief. God knows your heart, he doesn't need to guess based on actions.However, there is a very real and very dangerous belief with the Rapture that will lead to some being lead astray when the fake shows up first promising to rapture folks out of the picture. As a Christian, I'm sure you can understand why we don't want to have any part in the deception of this doctrine. I for one will not have that on my conscience. If that's what you believe, go for it, but just know Scripture.We did "allow" this doctrine for a very long time, but unfortunately you rapture believer folks like to post essays and books on the subject that we simply don't have time to refute when it comes to endless hours of the same regurgitated nonsense. In light of II John, we chose to ban the deception.I like how people always attempt and write my own site's mission for me. We were never in the business of being the biggest, newest, or most popular here. I don't believe there is a requirement to be here, either, for that matter.
I don't follow, some of this. Though I respect your choice to allow or not allow certain doctrines... it sometimes gets hazy, and obviously there are disagreements. However, we should either teach the rapture or not. If it is true, teach it. If it is not true, teach against it. Saying that some could be lead astray when a fake Jesus shows up doesn't seem to have anything to do with the rapture alone. Jesus warned us that false Christs would come, and that were were not to follow.

Matthew 24:24-25For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time.​

 

[Christina]

Pre trib rapture is just plain not in the Bible its not a matter of different interpretations there is no scripture that says it. No one has ever found one that's the problem we are taught the lesson of Passover that's how God protects his own that's what scripture teaches. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow and he never flew anyone away. Flesh and blood can not enter heaven and Satan is prince of the air. What Denver is saying is that no one us going anywhere it is your faith in Christ that gets you through the tribulation not mans fly away lie. We are told Antichrist comes first (5th/6th trump) before Christ returns at the 7th, So if Antichrist promises a rapture all the rapture believers will follow the fake christ. This is part of the great delusion of the End Times. Its a dangerous false doctrine. That we want no part of an understanding of Eze. 13:20 will tell you God does not like those that teach his souls to fly away. We are to mark the door posts of our mind/heart with blood of Jesus Christ that's what our protection is.

 

[RichardBurger]

(kriss;55818)
Pre trib rapture is just plain not in the Bible its not a matter of different interpretations there is no scripture that says it. No one has ever found one that's the problem we are taught the lesson of Passover that's how God protects his own that's what scripture teaches. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow and he never flew anyone away. Flesh and blood can not enter heaven and Satan is prince of the air. What Denver is saying is that no one us going anywhere it is your faith in Christ that gets you through the tribulation not mans fly away lie. We are told Antichrist comes first (5th/6th trump) before Christ returns at the 7th, So if Antichrist promises a rapture all the rapture believers will follow the fake christ. This is part of the great delusion of the End Times. Its a dangerous false doctrine. That we want no part of an understanding of Eze. 13:20 will tell you God does not like those that teach his souls to fly away. We are to mark the door posts of our mind/heart with blood of Jesus Christ that's what our protection is.
LOL, seems you are already discussing the thing you said "not to discuss."Very funny!!!!, Ha! Ha! Now I will shut my keyboard.