Maybe I'm moving too fast...let me slow it down: Let's take a look at "hell", and "forever". Is hell a place of fire and torment or a place of correction and repentance? Jonah chapter 2 (KJV), verse 2: afflicted in HELL! And he is there FOREVER! Question: is a hell a fire of torture or a place God brings people for correction and repentance. Jonah prayed, repented in hell, and God hear his prayers and saved him. Was he really there forever or long enough for Gods purpose to be fulfilled?
1 Tim 4:10, A Special Salvation for Believers?
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Jesus died for all so that whosoever believes on Him would not perish, but have everlasting life. He opened the door, but He also said that whoever exalts himself would be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. (Luke18:14). As well, God gives grace to the humble, resists the proud. The original offense of Lucifer was to forsake his God given role and determine to exalt himself to the status of God.lukethreesix said:
This is still the test of free will. However, I agree. Sin will be done away with. And Hades is not eternal, btw. Death and Hades will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. There, the human soul will be destroyed along with his body (Math.10:28). This is called the second death for a reason. Sin will be gone because the sinner will be dead. Your viewpoint about the role of hell denies this passage. We are to fear the one who can kill the soul: God. (go ahead and read it. The Greek word for "hell" in that passage is not Hades, but Gehenna, a reference to the Lake of Fire)
Universalism denies the freedom to say yes or no to relationship. Jesus said I stand at the door and knock. (Rev.3:20). God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, but PLEADS with people to respond and be reconciled (2Cor.5:19,20) Universalism as well, denies the choice a man must make to humble himself before God. As I said, God did not send His Son to save everyone. He sent His Son that whoever believes on Him would not perish. But faith takes humility. And humility is the qualification for grace.
God will not force Himself on us. We have prisons for those who do that against the will of another. Think again. He is not in the business of creating puppets or robots. A free will response cannot be programmed into a person. In our relationships, a man is originally hard wired to pursue and court a woman. She is hard wired to respond. The world has perverted this protocol to some degree, but this is how relationship works. The gospel is God's pursuit and proposal.
Maybe I'm moving too fast...let me slow it down: Let's take a look at "hell", and "forever". Is hell a place of fire and torment or a place of correction and repentance? Jonah chapter 2 (KJV), verse 2: afflicted in HELL! And he is there FOREVER! Question: is a hell a fire of torture or a place God brings people for correction and repentance. Jonah prayed, repented in hell, and God hear his prayers and saved him. Was he really there forever or long enough for Gods purpose to be fulfilled?
Yes the 2nd death is a very important part of this question. I believe the teaching that people go to hell after the '1st' death is what has lead to this kind of questioning.
God's plan through Christ for the resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous will allow far, far more people to be saved during the future millennia than ever have been saved in the past. The second death is there because no one will be 'force' to accept the gift of life.
Digging
God's plan through Christ for the resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous will allow far, far more people to be saved during the future millennia than ever have been saved in the past. The second death is there because no one will be 'force' to accept the gift of life.
Digging
Gabriel tells us Jesus saves us from our sin, (not Gods torture chamber). - Matt 1:21
Paul tells us that Jesus saves us from this evil age, here and now (not Gods torture device). - Gal 1:4
I would love someone to explain Jonah chapter 2 (above post)....
Paul tells us that Jesus saves us from this evil age, here and now (not Gods torture device). - Gal 1:4
I would love someone to explain Jonah chapter 2 (above post)....
Wormwood
Chaps
lukethreesix,
The KJV interprets the Hebrew phrase for "Sheol" as Hell....which is not accurate. Sheol was considered the "abode of the dead." It is akin to the Greek term "Hades" or the grave. It does not imply judgment, although death of any sort is a general form of judgment on sinful humanity. Yet, the "Hell" that Jesus references in the NT is very different from Sheol or Hades referenced in Jonah and other places in the OT and NT. Hell is a term taken from the Greek work ge-hinnom. This phrase references the valley of Hinnom which was a smoldering garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. Jesus uses this imagery not just to depict death, but to give an image of divine punishment on the wicked and unbelieving. Jesus, himself, portrays this punishment as "outer darkness" "where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" "eternal" and other images that depict intense and enduring suffering. For instance, Jesus tells the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Both die and go to Sheol, but Lazarus is taken to Abraham's bosom and the rich man is put in a place of torment to await final judgment. There is no post-mortem repentance ever indicated by Jesus and the passage you cite in the OT does not make a case for postmortem repentance either.
The KJV interprets the Hebrew phrase for "Sheol" as Hell....which is not accurate. Sheol was considered the "abode of the dead." It is akin to the Greek term "Hades" or the grave. It does not imply judgment, although death of any sort is a general form of judgment on sinful humanity. Yet, the "Hell" that Jesus references in the NT is very different from Sheol or Hades referenced in Jonah and other places in the OT and NT. Hell is a term taken from the Greek work ge-hinnom. This phrase references the valley of Hinnom which was a smoldering garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. Jesus uses this imagery not just to depict death, but to give an image of divine punishment on the wicked and unbelieving. Jesus, himself, portrays this punishment as "outer darkness" "where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" "eternal" and other images that depict intense and enduring suffering. For instance, Jesus tells the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Both die and go to Sheol, but Lazarus is taken to Abraham's bosom and the rich man is put in a place of torment to await final judgment. There is no post-mortem repentance ever indicated by Jesus and the passage you cite in the OT does not make a case for postmortem repentance either.
The word Hell is Germanic in origin. The biblical authors didn't use that word because it was in a language that they did not use.lukethreesix said:
Jonah 2:6, says he was there "forever"? The Hebrew is "Olam" same word translated "everlasting" (Daniel 12:2). Please explain Jonah being EVERLASTINGLY in Sheol for 3 days?
Any bible will refer this Daniel passage to Matt 25:46. What if everlasting and forever actually DON'T mean what we've been taught they mean? What if "these shall go away into DAYS of punishment"(Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46) that would change you theology a bit!
Any bible will refer this Daniel passage to Matt 25:46. What if everlasting and forever actually DON'T mean what we've been taught they mean? What if "these shall go away into DAYS of punishment"(Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46) that would change you theology a bit!
Wormwood
Chaps
Post mortem repentance is the ability to repent after death. Hebrews teaches that man is destined to die once and after that the judgment. However, some contemporary authors, such as Rob Bell, have begun teaching a universalism that says that God will give people more chances to repent after they die until everyone is ultimately saved. This is one of the arguments of the author of this post. It is without a shred of Biblical evidence and actually runs quite contrary to the teaching of the New Testament.digging said:
lukethreesix-
First, the text you are quoting is a poetic psalm, not a didactic passage. These two genres are very different so that certainly plays into how we interpret the passages. Second, the meaning behind this passage is not that Jonah was in the underworld forever, but that he was sucked down into the underworld whose gates lock shut forever. Essentially, he is saying that he was in a hopeless situation and captured by death which holds a person forever. Yet, God was able to free him from a prison no one escapes. I have provided a commentary section that explains this text in more detail.
You conveniently avoided the FACT that the Hebrew word used as "forever" in Jonah 2:6, IS the same word used in Daniel 12:2, (Matt 25:46) "everlasting". The word is "olam", and its Greek counterpart "aion". These words do not mean "eternal", as we've been taught. In fact, the ONLY time the Greek word for "eternal" is used is in Romans 1:20 (speaking of Gods power).
Let scripture interpret scripture, Jonah's "olam" was 3 days. But everybody else's "olam" is eternity?
That makes no sense.
A Literal tratranslation renders Matt 25:46, "and these will go away into an age of correction..." - EBR
yes "punishment" is this verse is "kolasis", meaning correction or prunning
Let scripture interpret scripture, Jonah's "olam" was 3 days. But everybody else's "olam" is eternity?
That makes no sense.
A Literal tratranslation renders Matt 25:46, "and these will go away into an age of correction..." - EBR
yes "punishment" is this verse is "kolasis", meaning correction or prunning
Wormwood
Chaps
Actually I didn't. First I said it was in the genre of poetry, and second I said that this is in reference to the eternal nature of the grave. Jonah was not saying that he was in the grave forever, but that the gates of the grave are locked for eternity. Essentially, Jonah is saying that God saved him from a pit that is known to take its captives forever. The commentary section I quoted was very clear in this regard. Did you read it?lukethreesix said:
Actually, you are wrong about kolasis. Do you really know Greek? Have you studied Greek formally? I assure you that not only does kolasis almost always mean punishment, but this is especially true with regards to Matt 25:46. The context is undeniable that this is referring to punishment, not correction.
Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender.
Bingo! That is the definition of the word. Thank you.
The reason your commentary doesn't "think" it is in the case of Matt 25, is because they believe the word "aionios" (adjective for the "aion") means eternal, which is doesn't. AGAIN, the only Greek word that means eternal is "aidios" found Romans 1:20.
Now, let's get back to the Hebrew word "olam". Jonah 2:6, "forever" is the same word "everlasting" (Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46)
Same word can not mean two VERY different things, one is only 3 days (limited duration), and the other has no end? (In fact eternal means, without beginning, without end. So by definition nothing created can be eternal since it in fact had a beginning.)
Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender.
Bingo! That is the definition of the word. Thank you.
The reason your commentary doesn't "think" it is in the case of Matt 25, is because they believe the word "aionios" (adjective for the "aion") means eternal, which is doesn't. AGAIN, the only Greek word that means eternal is "aidios" found Romans 1:20.
Now, let's get back to the Hebrew word "olam". Jonah 2:6, "forever" is the same word "everlasting" (Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46)
Same word can not mean two VERY different things, one is only 3 days (limited duration), and the other has no end? (In fact eternal means, without beginning, without end. So by definition nothing created can be eternal since it in fact had a beginning.)
Oops...don't know why it posted it twice?
Bingo! That is the definition of the word. Thank you.
The reason your commentary doesn't "think" it is in the case of Matt 25, is because they believe the word "aionios" (adjective for the "aion") means eternal, which is doesn't. AGAIN, the only Greek word that means eternal is "aidios" found Romans 1:20.
Now, let's get back to the Hebrew word "olam". Jonah 2:6, "forever" is the same word "everlasting" (Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46)
Same word can not mean two VERY different things, one is only 3 days (limited duration), and the other has no end? (In fact eternal means, without beginning, without end. So by definition nothing created can be eternal since it in fact had a beginning.)
Kólasis, on the other hand, conveys the notion of punishment for the correction and bettering of the offender.
Bingo! That is the definition of the word. Thank you.
The reason your commentary doesn't "think" it is in the case of Matt 25, is because they believe the word "aionios" (adjective for the "aion") means eternal, which is doesn't. AGAIN, the only Greek word that means eternal is "aidios" found Romans 1:20.
Now, let's get back to the Hebrew word "olam". Jonah 2:6, "forever" is the same word "everlasting" (Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46)
Same word can not mean two VERY different things, one is only 3 days (limited duration), and the other has no end? (In fact eternal means, without beginning, without end. So by definition nothing created can be eternal since it in fact had a beginning.)
Oops...don't know why it posted it twice?
Thank-you for your reply I understand more clearly but I hope you are open to consider that there might be an answer that sits in between these two views.
We have assumed that the judgement of the future will only be condemnation. When Jesus speaks of the resurrection he only mentions two kinds of condition or types of people. They are either righteous or unrighteous there are no other groups resurrected.
Thus the question we need to ask is how does someone receive the righteous standing before God?
If someone during this age for some reason does not become a believer in Christ are you saying they are lost forever?
Digging
We have assumed that the judgement of the future will only be condemnation. When Jesus speaks of the resurrection he only mentions two kinds of condition or types of people. They are either righteous or unrighteous there are no other groups resurrected.
Thus the question we need to ask is how does someone receive the righteous standing before God?
If someone during this age for some reason does not become a believer in Christ are you saying they are lost forever?
Digging
Wormwood
Chaps
It is apparent to me that you do not know Greek or how translation works. Words to not have meaning of themselves alone. Meaning is always derived from context and many words have multiple meanings based on their context. This is true of Greek just as it is of any language. There is not only one word in Great that means eternal. Depending on the context, aion can mean an age or eternity. Just as the word "stud" can mean a male horse, a wooden beam in a wall, or a gifted athlete...depending on the context. The primary meaning of kolasis is punishment. Every Greek lexicon makes this very apparent. In some cases, it can be translated correction. Yet it is hardly ever translated this way, especially in Matt 25 where the context is clearly speaking of punishment, not restoration. For instance, kolasis is used 7 times in the Septuagint in our common OT books and 5 of those times it is translated "punishment" and another time it is translated "to harm." I looked at over 10 different lexicons and every single one has the primary meaning being punishment. Please provide one lexicon that gives the primary meaning of this word as "correction."
I'm not going to repeat myself on the Jonah text. Clearly you are not reading what I wrote so it will do no good to repeat it. I never said olam did not mean "forever." Sigh.
Digging,
I am open to hearing if you have a Scriptual reason for claiming there is some middle-ground or other option. However, I think Scripture is very clear on the matter. Yes, those who do not receive God's grace in Jesus Christ are eternally condemned. I think this is what the Bible teaches.
“See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.” (Hebrews 12:15–17, ESV)
“And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.” (Acts 13:46, ESV)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16, ESV)
““For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:16–18, ESV)
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36, ESV)
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, ESV)
I'm not going to repeat myself on the Jonah text. Clearly you are not reading what I wrote so it will do no good to repeat it. I never said olam did not mean "forever." Sigh.
Digging,
I am open to hearing if you have a Scriptual reason for claiming there is some middle-ground or other option. However, I think Scripture is very clear on the matter. Yes, those who do not receive God's grace in Jesus Christ are eternally condemned. I think this is what the Bible teaches.
“See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled; that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought it with tears.” (Hebrews 12:15–17, ESV)
“And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.” (Acts 13:46, ESV)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.” (Romans 1:16, ESV)
““For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.” (John 3:16–18, ESV)
“Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” (John 3:36, ESV)
“but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:31, ESV)
In that line of thinking I have heard the argument that because both punishment and life are described by the same adjective (aionios), they must be the same in duration. Since we live "forever" those wicked people must be tortured forever.
this argument fails: a big mouse, a big man, and a big house, are all described by the same adjective but are by no means the same in size.
The argument that God tortures people "forever and ever" (how can you add an eternity to an eternity?) This argument fails in light of Gods character. Look through the scriptures and you will always find God punishing for corrective purposes. Its always to bring repentance, always! That is God nature, punishing in love as a father does to his children. (Don't try the "God is not every body's father trick. Mal 2:10, Eph 4:6). God wants all to come to repentancnice and He has the entire Kosmos at His disposal. God very character throughout the Bible screams corrective punishment. My Bible says He will restore all things (the cosmos). Keeping sin alive forever is not a victory for Christ. Sorry.
this argument fails: a big mouse, a big man, and a big house, are all described by the same adjective but are by no means the same in size.
The argument that God tortures people "forever and ever" (how can you add an eternity to an eternity?) This argument fails in light of Gods character. Look through the scriptures and you will always find God punishing for corrective purposes. Its always to bring repentance, always! That is God nature, punishing in love as a father does to his children. (Don't try the "God is not every body's father trick. Mal 2:10, Eph 4:6). God wants all to come to repentancnice and He has the entire Kosmos at His disposal. God very character throughout the Bible screams corrective punishment. My Bible says He will restore all things (the cosmos). Keeping sin alive forever is not a victory for Christ. Sorry.
Wormwood
Chaps
Id be happy to examine some of these verses in the Greek with you if you like. I'll choose two verses for now and if you have on in particular, let me know.
“καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.” (Matthew 25:46, NA27)
Here is the text we were discussing in Matthew 25. It reads, “καὶ (and) ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι (these will go away) εἰς (into/toward) κόλασιν (punishment) αἰώνιον (eternal), οἱ δὲ (but the) δίκαιοι (righteous/just) εἰς (into/toward) ζωὴν (life) αἰώνιον (eternal).”
extra biblical literature
So lets look at aionion in more depth here not only in its context, but in its range of meaning. It is simply a fact that the word aionios is used in reference to eternity or timelessness in a range of Greek literature. Plato references aionios as a timeless eternity without days, months, or years. Some other Greek writers use aionios in reference to the span of the being or entity to which it is assigned. When aion is used in reference to the earth among Greeks, it is spoken of as an enduring or endless time. Philo refers to aion as an eternal to-day while both Plutarch and the Stoics use the word in reference to eternity.
Bible Translations
Bible translators almost always translate aionios and its different forms as eternity. There are 70 uses of this word in the NT and the ESV translates it "eternity" 66x. The NIV84 translates it "eternity" 64x. The NRSV translates it this way 67x. The NAS 65x. The KJV translates it "eternity" 42x and "everlasting" 24x. As you can see, every major translation and the thousands of Greek scholars that work together to produce these translations understand that not only does this word mean "eternity" but that this is the predominate use of the word in over 90% of its occurrences.
forever and ever
As for the phrase "forever and ever" it is seen in Revelation 14:11 with regards to torment. It says,
“καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, ....” (Revelation 14:11a, NA27)
The phrase here is eis (into) aionas (ages) aionon (of ages). It is important to note, as stated before, the Greeks often understood aionios as referring to an endless age. This same phrase is used 12x in Revelation and always refers to eternity as it generally refers to God’s or Christ’s eternal being, God’s or the saints’ eternal reign. To say this phrase does not mean "eternity" is also to argue that God and Christ do not reign or live forever either. I think this is clearly not the case.
Matthew 25
So now that we see that these words do, in fact, often refer to an age that was generally regarded to be and endless in duration throughout Greek literature, there is no issue with rendering the word "eternity" in the New Testament. But should it be rendered this way in Matthew 25? I think you answered this yourself. The same word that refers to punishment is contrasted with the length of life that the righteous receive. Thus, to say aionios in this context does not mean eternity is also to claim that the righteous will not live forever. This is clearly not what the NT teaches about the reward of the faithful.
In sum, I think the evidence is overwhelming that aionios should be translated "eternity" in most instances, and especially in the context of Matthew 25:46.
Id be happy to show you the overwhelming instances where's God's punishment and wrath is not corrective in nature...such as Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Deluge which are shadows pointed to in the NT of the coming final Judgment. I think you are very mistaken here.
“καὶ ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι εἰς κόλασιν αἰώνιον, οἱ δὲ δίκαιοι εἰς ζωὴν αἰώνιον.” (Matthew 25:46, NA27)
Here is the text we were discussing in Matthew 25. It reads, “καὶ (and) ἀπελεύσονται οὗτοι (these will go away) εἰς (into/toward) κόλασιν (punishment) αἰώνιον (eternal), οἱ δὲ (but the) δίκαιοι (righteous/just) εἰς (into/toward) ζωὴν (life) αἰώνιον (eternal).”
extra biblical literature
So lets look at aionion in more depth here not only in its context, but in its range of meaning. It is simply a fact that the word aionios is used in reference to eternity or timelessness in a range of Greek literature. Plato references aionios as a timeless eternity without days, months, or years. Some other Greek writers use aionios in reference to the span of the being or entity to which it is assigned. When aion is used in reference to the earth among Greeks, it is spoken of as an enduring or endless time. Philo refers to aion as an eternal to-day while both Plutarch and the Stoics use the word in reference to eternity.
Bible Translations
Bible translators almost always translate aionios and its different forms as eternity. There are 70 uses of this word in the NT and the ESV translates it "eternity" 66x. The NIV84 translates it "eternity" 64x. The NRSV translates it this way 67x. The NAS 65x. The KJV translates it "eternity" 42x and "everlasting" 24x. As you can see, every major translation and the thousands of Greek scholars that work together to produce these translations understand that not only does this word mean "eternity" but that this is the predominate use of the word in over 90% of its occurrences.
forever and ever
As for the phrase "forever and ever" it is seen in Revelation 14:11 with regards to torment. It says,
“καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, ....” (Revelation 14:11a, NA27)
The phrase here is eis (into) aionas (ages) aionon (of ages). It is important to note, as stated before, the Greeks often understood aionios as referring to an endless age. This same phrase is used 12x in Revelation and always refers to eternity as it generally refers to God’s or Christ’s eternal being, God’s or the saints’ eternal reign. To say this phrase does not mean "eternity" is also to argue that God and Christ do not reign or live forever either. I think this is clearly not the case.
Matthew 25
So now that we see that these words do, in fact, often refer to an age that was generally regarded to be and endless in duration throughout Greek literature, there is no issue with rendering the word "eternity" in the New Testament. But should it be rendered this way in Matthew 25? I think you answered this yourself. The same word that refers to punishment is contrasted with the length of life that the righteous receive. Thus, to say aionios in this context does not mean eternity is also to claim that the righteous will not live forever. This is clearly not what the NT teaches about the reward of the faithful.
In sum, I think the evidence is overwhelming that aionios should be translated "eternity" in most instances, and especially in the context of Matthew 25:46.
Id be happy to show you the overwhelming instances where's God's punishment and wrath is not corrective in nature...such as Sodom and Gomorrah and the Great Deluge which are shadows pointed to in the NT of the coming final Judgment. I think you are very mistaken here.
I disagree.. Sodom is restored in Ez 16.
Webster defines eternal as, without beginning without end. By definition only God can be eternal.
So does forever and ever mean. Ages and ages or eternities and eternities?
Jesus tells us to love our enemies and do good to them... he goes on to say, if you love only those who loves you back you are no better than a pagan.
Will God love his enemies and do good to them, will he only love those who love him back? Is God no better than a pagan? Or does he hold us to a higher moral standard than himself?
Paul tells us in Romans 12, that we pour coals of fire upon the heads of our enemies when we do good to them. "Evil is overcome by doing good."
Jerome said, "all of Gods enemies will perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies."
Is there any heart to hard for God to soften?
"Is there anything too hard for me?" - God (Jer 32:27)
Luke 3:6, All flesh will see salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQn-aICbmo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Webster defines eternal as, without beginning without end. By definition only God can be eternal.
So does forever and ever mean. Ages and ages or eternities and eternities?
Jesus tells us to love our enemies and do good to them... he goes on to say, if you love only those who loves you back you are no better than a pagan.
Will God love his enemies and do good to them, will he only love those who love him back? Is God no better than a pagan? Or does he hold us to a higher moral standard than himself?
Paul tells us in Romans 12, that we pour coals of fire upon the heads of our enemies when we do good to them. "Evil is overcome by doing good."
Jerome said, "all of Gods enemies will perish, not that they cease to exist, but cease to be enemies."
Is there any heart to hard for God to soften?
"Is there anything too hard for me?" - God (Jer 32:27)
Luke 3:6, All flesh will see salvation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruQn-aICbmo&feature=youtube_gdata_player
For some one to be condemned they need to have rejected the word of Christ there is no other way. Like wise to be saved they need to hear the word for Christ there is so other way.
Thus everyone will be given a personal opportunity to hear that word, this is how I understand the very purpose of the millennia to be.
Who else is the Spirit and Bride saying Come to??
Revelation 22:17 NAS
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come ; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Just think about how many millions and millions of people who never heard the call, who died as a 1 or 2 day old baby? How about 1 year old, 2 year old, born in China 3000 years ago?
All the saved of this age from Abel to now are to receive the gift of the 1st resurrection, become the Bride of Christ and help him bring the rest of the great harvest in. I believe this is shadowed in feasts
Three National Feasts
Exodus 23:14 "Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 "You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread ; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 16 "Also you shall observe the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field ; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field
Digging
Thus everyone will be given a personal opportunity to hear that word, this is how I understand the very purpose of the millennia to be.
Who else is the Spirit and Bride saying Come to??
Revelation 22:17 NAS
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come ; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.
Just think about how many millions and millions of people who never heard the call, who died as a 1 or 2 day old baby? How about 1 year old, 2 year old, born in China 3000 years ago?
All the saved of this age from Abel to now are to receive the gift of the 1st resurrection, become the Bride of Christ and help him bring the rest of the great harvest in. I believe this is shadowed in feasts
Three National Feasts
Exodus 23:14 "Three times a year you shall celebrate a feast to Me. 15 "You shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread ; for seven days you are to eat unleavened bread, as I commanded you, at the appointed time in the month Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. And none shall appear before Me empty-handed. 16 "Also you shall observe the Feast of the Harvest of the first fruits of your labors from what you sow in the field ; also the Feast of the Ingathering at the end of the year when you gather in the fruit of your labors from the field
Digging
From my perspective, the idea that people placed in the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20) can somehow leave it and be redeemed is an idea that isn't supported by the Bible.
Instead, the idea comes from a particular philosophy which dictates what God must be like in order to be God.
No, God doesn't have to let anyone out of the Lake of Fire in order for God to be God.
Making people in the Lake of Fire remain there would be just punishment for them
Instead, the idea comes from a particular philosophy which dictates what God must be like in order to be God.
No, God doesn't have to let anyone out of the Lake of Fire in order for God to be God.
Making people in the Lake of Fire remain there would be just punishment for them
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