1 Timothy 2:12

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thelord's_pearl

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
 
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Randy Kluth

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since the Bible says that Adam was created first and he also has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
Paul taught essential Christian doctrine, having to do with the substitutionary death of Christ for us and he also taught customs, to present a viable witness in the world. A Jewish custom was apparently to separate women, who were often mothers of large families, from the formal proceedings at church gatherings.

For women to insert themselves into the formal order they would have to unseat a man, which is like a substitute teacher coming in and forcibly taking over a teacher's role in a classroom. There is no question that the substitute teacher may do as well as any regular teacher. The point is to maintain order, rather than have a competition between genders. The role women played was based on the family needs, not on capability.

Today, women are often unmarried, divorced, or have only had one or two children. They need to do more than just sit at home or be quiet in the church. I believe there were two unmarried daughters in a church Paul was at who prophesied. That is hardly being quiet!

Acts 2.18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.
Acts 21.9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.


I think Paul's main concern was to discourage competition between the genders, to establish roles that in his time fit both the custom and the need. Obviously, with different conditions, such as a lack of men, the women were perfectly capable of filling in, just as Deborah did, when Barak did not show enough capacity on his own.

Judges 4.9 “Certainly I will go with you,” said Deborah. “But because of the course you are taking, the honor will not be yours, for the Lord will deliver Sisera into the hands of a woman.” So Deborah went with Barak to Kedesh."

If you wish to avoid having a family and children, you should pursue service in the church if you can. Nobody can say you are unqualified. Nobody should say you have to get married at all.

The only thing is Paul required women to show respect for what God has called men to do. It is not about competition with men, but about what God wants. God's original desire for women was that they get married and have children and raise families. But due to the fallen nature of this world, it is not always possible for a woman to do this, nor is it even always desirable.

I must also say that Paul saw not just different gifts between men and women, but also different curses on them for the original sins of Adam and Eve. Men were created first, and they were to take the lead in the family in order to do the provisional work for the family.

But men were, after the fall, to be more discerning about deception. Their leadership role became more dominating so as to safeguard women from future deception, after Eve's weakness, which I believe has become a spiritual inheritance for all women. Women should always try to work in tandem with responsible Christian male leaders. That way they can be effective and not suffer any setbacks.

The weakness of women regarding deception seems apparent, at times, when women fall for conniving pretenders, although men can also be deceived. The weakness of men, on the other hand, is with being weak towards women. They tend to give up their authority so as to not lose the women their eyes favor, such as Sampson did with Delilah. Both men and women in a marriage can help one another avoid their particular pitfalls by being understanding and aggressive in protecting one another from temptation.

However, in our humanistic world we would find such notions as gender differences chauvinistic. But we should take care not to indulge our rebellious nature, and let God decide what is and what should be? The idea is to serve God and not ourselves alone. That is what originally got Adam and Eve in trouble, and what now afflicts the human race--the desire to have one's own way.
 
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Deborah_

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Paul says in verse 13 that it's because the man was created "first". Not better, smarter, or more privileged, or male - just "first".
That meant Adam had more knowledge and spiritual experience than Eve. She was (relatively) ignorant and naïve. She thought that she could handle Satan's temptation on her own - and she was wrong.
And in the early church, most of the women were in a similar situation. Jewish women hadn't been encouraged to study the Scriptures. Most Gentile women were uneducated. The men were simply better qualified to teach. And we know that Timothy's church (Ephesus) was being attacked by false teaching. The last thing they needed was uninformed, untaught women muscling in on the teaching ministry.
But Jesus (and Paul) did encourage Christian women to learn! And so they should have "caught up" within a generation or two. Sadly, it took us nearly 2000 years...
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
Paul was taking about women not having authoritative positions in the congregation(Church). There were men appointed to be elders or overseers, in the congregation. Women couldn't be appointed elders or overseers.
 

Wynona

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
I think Paul gives his reason in these verses:

1 Timothy 2:12

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

This doesn't mean women should not be teachers though.

Titus 2:3-4

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,







 

GRACE ambassador

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This doesn't mean women should not be teachers though.

Titus 2:3-4

3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
Amen! More on this topic is here "Which Works To Walk In...

...For the Ladies​

To begin with, in Acts 9 we meet Dorcas, a woman “full of good works” (9:36). She was
evidently quite the seamstress, for her good works are later defined by a reference to
“the coats and garments which Dorcas made” (v. 39). In those days, it could be said of
many a virtuous woman that “she seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with
her hands” (Prov. 31:13 cf. vv. 22,24).

Thus we know that when a Christian woman performs the many duties of a wife and mother,
she is walking in the good works in which she was created to walk. To this must be added the
testimony of the Apostle Paul, who speaks of widows who were “well reported of for good
works” (I Tim. 5:10). He then goes on to describe things like bringing up children, hospitality,
and caring for the sick as good works with which godly women can adorn themselves
(I Tim. 2:9,10)." (R Kurth)
-----------------------------
Praise God for all godly women busy serving The LORD! Amen.
 

ScottA

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
The whole matter of gender is explained in the creation, that God created man in His own image, male and female. Wherein it is also revealed that just as Adam was not born but created as coming out of (or in the image of) God, Eve was also taken out of Adam. In other words, just as man was "of" God, woman was "of" man.

It was then give to Paul to declared the ages old "image" of marriage as a "mystery", saying, "but I speak of Christ and the church." Which was to declare and reveal the reality of mankind (male and female alike) as all being viewed by God as women--that is "of God" to then again become as "one flesh." Thus, being given to Paul to declare, he elaborated in accordance with Jesus' (who sent him) plans to build His church by the means by which Peter came to know that Jesus was the Christ, that is, from the Father by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Paul said "women are to be silent in church"--that only the Holy Spirit would speak...which Jesus said would occur, that it would not be those He sent that would speak, "but the Holy Spirit" who would speak through them.

Paul then, being faced with disruptions in the church, prompted by the Spirit, spoke according to the plan of Christ to build His church by the Spirit, rather than by the Bride who should therefore be silent. And this too has been an age old mystery, still not fully understood.

Nonetheless, by following the original guidelines of men only leading the church, this is a service to God and Christ for the building of His church, as an "image" to new believers of just how it is be built by the roles assigned as the man representing Christ, and women representing those who love Him as a wife loves her Husband.

Otherwise, there is to be considered no hierarchy between a men and a women, as they together are one Bride.
 

Mark51

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
Paul’s exhortation was not to diminish women‘s importance. He was reinforcing a biblical arrangement in relation to teaching and exercising spiritual authority in the congregation. Only spiritual men-in agreement-were tasked with such “shepherding”-whether in the home or congregation. This does not mean that a woman is to be completely silent at Christian meetings.

Women, however, were encouraged to be teachers of Jesus’ words also-in different arrangements-such as teaching their children or teaching among the general public; and, they are equally approved the same as men.

Compare some relating scriptures. Psalm 68:11; Acts 2:17, 18; 1 Corinthians 11:3, 9, 10; 14:34, 35; Galatians 3:26-28; Ephesians 5:22, 23; Philippians 4:2, 3; 2 Timothy 1:5; Titus 2:3-5; 1 Peter 3:1.
 

bbyrd009

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1Timothy 2:12
12 I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong? Is it out of respect and since after that, it says that Adam was created first and also he has an extra rib so men are supposed to lead the women.
ah jeez, this can of worms again. I am not even going to read the well-meaning but likely misinformed pap that you are getting for replies, but i will suggest that you have a male and a female side, and Paul was almost surely not talking about actual people, ok
There are no...male or female in the kingdom

but you might note how great a divider/revealer of men the passage is :)
and also how every one of the replies can be refuted with Scripture, which records women in positions of authority
k peace
 

Jim B

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We are not living in anywhere near the same society as people of the 1st century Roman world. Women were the property of men, similar to servants but with higher status. There is absolutely no reason that women of today can't fully teach all areas of Christianity.

Just one example: a woman has a Doctorate degree in theology (ThD) and is called to be a pastor/teacher/professor. Does anyone really consider that she is not qualified to perform in that role, based on a single verse (allegedly) written by Paul about 2,000 years ago?
 
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Lambano

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We are not living in anywhere near the same society as people of the 1st century Roman world. Women were the property of men, similar to servants but with higher status. There is absolutely no reason that women of today can't fully teach all areas of Christianity.

Just one example: a woman has a Doctorate degree in theology (ThD) and is called to be a pastor/teacher/professor. Does anyone really consider that she is not qualified to perform in that role, based on a single verse (allegedly) written by Paul about 2,000 years ago?
I have been a member of Bible Study groups led by women, and I have had women pastors, one of whom God used to change my life. I would be a poorer man if I had not allowed myself to learn from them.

To be blunt to the point of crudity, there are far more important attributes to a spiritual leader and teacher than their genitalia.
 
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Enoch111

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Hi everyone, why can't women teach men if let's say they were smarter than some men or if the man was wrong?
Should it not be sufficient that the Bible says (or God says) women are not to teach in the local church, or have authority over men? This has nothing to do with "smartness". And correction should be administered by other men.
 

Wrangler

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Should it not be sufficient that the Bible says (or God says) women are not to teach in the local church, or have authority over men?

Socrates rightfully said 'The unexamined life is not worth living.' The same with examining 'the word of God' and not merely accept a verse out of context at face value. Paul had no problem with Priscilla teaching Apollos. That should tell you something. So, one has to reconcile the verses. Here is how I do.

Paul's prohibition was not universal but local. While looked at today as sexist, women at that time in Jewish culture were not allowed to worship together with men. So, the very fact that women were present during church services was progressive for the times. Men and women were allowed to be together in the early Christian church. However, the did not know how to act. Frankly, the women acted disruptively, seeking attention and a husband with sexy dress, flamboyant hair and jewelry, in addition to behavior. So, Paul's words brought order to chaos.

This explains why he said in 1 Corinthians 14:35 If woman want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home. What women does this apply to? Obviously not all women but married women. Also, compare Pauls words to 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Some bad translations replace the social roles here with the biological sex, woman and man to reinforce the false notion of universal superiority of one sex over another as being deemed by God.

IF that were true, if Paul meant what you claim as a universal, he never would have said in Galatians 3:28 in Christ there is no male or female. The only reason there is no male or female in Christ is because there is no sex-based hierarchy. However, there clearly remains a sex-based hierarchy in social orders, between husband and wife.

And the reason is simple, again to prevent chaos. We worship a God or order, not chaos. In a relationship, there will undoubtedly be conflict. When conflict arises between 2 parties, how will the conflict be resolved? Someone has to make the final decision and the word of God identifies that in marriage that someone is the husband. (If today's modern women don't like it, they should not get married.)

I've said this before many times. For my part, most decision-making is a burden. I have a busy, pressure packed career. When I come home, I don't want to get into all the details of all the often times arbitrary decisions that need to be made. What are we going to eat? What time to visit a friend or relative? What gift to get someone for that special occasion? So, I prefer that my wife make most of the decisions in our home. Still, I reserve the right to 'make the final decision' on substantial matters, typically financial or moral.

A big one that came up this week was her son's wedding. He wants such a small ceremony that only the biological parents and the best man and maid of honor are invited. This means as the step-dad. I am not invited to the ceremony - but am invited to the reception. A dear friend passionately encouraged my wife to stand up against this dividing husband and wife. He told her she should tell her son that if I cannot go, she cannot go either. I respect that stand on the sanctity of marriage, especially at a marriage ceremony.

She replied that she cannot miss her son's wedding. I don't want her to miss her son's wedding ceremony either. Case closed. What guides my decision is not emotion or ego but Romans 12:18. (I suspect his motivation is not to spite me but to keep his unpleasant stepmother from the festive affair. If the situation were reversed, I suspect my wife would be all upset but my decision would be unchanged. I'd go to my daughter's wedding and my wife can join me at the reception, thereby keeping the peace.)

Hope this helps.