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#3 the two witnesses

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Joyful, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Revelation 11:1-3 (King James Version)
    Revelation 11 1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
    Would you explain this? who are these two witnesses?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    No one knows for sure who these two are and again there is more than one train of thought. 1. Is these are two Men (angles) Gods Witnesses that will be here to preach against Antichrist and be a light if you will against the great delusion that Antichrist will causewho these men are has been a long time debate most popular is that one is Elijah the other has been guessed as Enoch,Moses, John or just about any major Biblical patriarch. 2. The other train of thought is that these are not men but the two churches of Rev who Wittiness against Satan. I have read the best evidence for this theory and although there are some good points made for this idea. It just does not fit like a glove like Gods word should you have to ignore to many things. and I have found that when you have to start ignoring Gods word to make things fit. Its wrong. I do think these two churches (Smyrna and Philadelphia) will be with the two witnesses. So I come down on the side that these are two individuals: 1. They are called men 2. Fire comes from their mouths (whether this actual fire or the fire of Gods truth does not matter so much as they have mouths)3. They cause rain to cease falling among other things.Now you could argue all these things could be the churchbut how does the church lie dead in the streets for three days while the World rejoices?Rev. 11:9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. Rev. 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth. After three days they Stand up on their feet and are raised into Heaven Rev. 11:11But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. Rev11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on. I also have to ask my self with the state of decay of the church in general these daysteaching mens tratidions rather than Gods word and all the disagreements amongst us how could we ever be strong enough to fight Antichrists delusion. I think most will be following after him and his promise of a peace and rapture. Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.What is the oppisite of wars and rumours of war ? Peace and saftey this is what antichrist will be promising the world. Is it any wonder man will not want to hear what Gods wittnesses will be saying?Notice also that the time of the two witnesses witnessing are given in days. These witnesses are of the children of light, and their message is of God. When you compare the forty two months of Antichrist from Daniel 9, with the 1,260 days of the two witnesses, they are the same.but months are always used for Satans timing where as Days is used for Gods people. Now as I said No one knows who these wittness will be for sure I have my own thoughts that they will be most likely Elijah and John the Baptist I have no biblical proof of this but I do believe whoever they are one will be from the old testament and one from the New testament as Jews would not listen to a Christian and a Christians would not listen to a Jew.
     
  3. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    Thank you for your perspective, kriss:)I don't know how I should reason with that, the book of Revelation is saying "Blessed are those who read book of revelation" or something like that in chapter one. There are so many ways to speculate this book.
     
  4. Wakka

    Wakka Super Member

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    The best way to understand it is through God's help. And not some internet article. Unless if it's from someone you know is walking with God.
     
  5. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Joyful;16298)
    Thank you for your perspective, kriss:)I don't know how I should reason with that, the book of Revelation is saying "Blessed are those who read book of revelation" or something like that in chapter one. There are so many ways to speculate this book.
    I think the important thing to remember here is even though Satan(antichrist) will come and cause a great delusion. To those who stay in his word and listen he will send two wittnesses to guide us for he has promised to never leave us nor forsake us. He always gives us a light to lead us through the darkness and I believe we will know them when we hear and see them for we know Antichrist comes first and the wittness will start preaching when he arrives Thus the same amount of time for them and Satan.
     
  6. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    tough book , here there is a lot of figurative stuff. but i believe 2 witnesses wil be 2 witneses=like kriss said maybe elijah, moses, enoch. do not want to get into a rapture debate or tom lahaye debate but i think he believed them to be moses and elijah. i believe this portion of revelation to be quite literal. that is just me
     
  7. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (kriss;16305)
    I think the important thing to remember here is even though Satan(antichrist) will come and cause a great delusion. To those who stay in his word and listen he will send two wittnesses to guide us for he has promised to never leave us nor forsake us. He always gives us a light to lead us through the darkness and I believe we will know them when we hear and see them for we know Antichrist comes first and the wittness will start preaching when he arrives Thus the same amount of time for them and Satan.
    I hope we can tell those two witnesses clearly.
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Any child of God will know the two witnesses.You may want to read Zechariah 4 Joyful, it will shed a little more light on the two witnesses. It will either be Elijah and Moses or Elijah and Enoch.
     
  9. Joyful

    Joyful New Member

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    (Denver;16315)
    Any child of God will know the two witnesses.You may want to read Zechariah 4 Joyful, it will shed a little more light on the two witnesses. It will either be Elijah and Moses or Elijah and Enoch.
    thank you Denver.[​IMG]
     
  10. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Joyful here is something to remember that may ease your mind about knowing who these men are. The two witnesses are men whom God will give supernatural abilities to allow them to stand and witness for God's people, those believers that know and trust on the Lord Jesus Christ.Revelation 11:5 "And if any man will [desireth to] hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will [shall desire to] hurt them, he must in this manner be killed."Revelation 11:6 "These [witnesses] have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they [the witnesses] will."You can see these are not normal things man can do. They will warn all of mankind, and the "sackcloth" indicates that this warning of their sins is to be their only mission. Not preaching the all matter of things but rather the coming Judgement The key to understand that the location of this happening is in Jerusalem, is in the term, "Where also our Lord was crucified." Jerusalem was referred to as "Sodom and Egypt" in Isaiah 1:9-10, and Ezekiel 16:46, as well as many other passages. The Holy Spirit of God, thus points to Jerusalem as the only place possible, to make that location completely clear. When these two people are slaughtered in Jerusalem by the one that the world thinks to be God, and the people of the whole earth start their many day celebration because of that murder, know that the time of the murder started the last 84 hours, [three and a half days] before the sounding of the seventh trumpet, and our Lord's return.Revelation 11:9 "And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves."Through T. V. and electronic means, and many visiting in person, the entire world will view, and witness the dead bodies of the two witnesses laying in this arena over the next three and a half days. Why?It is obvious that these two are witnessing they are from Jesus the true Christ. Part of their testimony will be from the witness that if they be killed, their bodies will arise in three and a half days to meet the true Christ. Satan and his followers will be thinking at this time, "We're not going to let someone come and steal these bodies in the night." This was the same accusation that was made by the "Kenites [Offspring of Satan]" when Christ arose some two thousand years earlier. So there the witnesses lay, while the world watched and celebrated.While Im sure the cameras will be on.These physical bodies will be doing only one thing for three and a half days; "rotting". Revelation 11:10 "And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth."So I do not think it will be at all difficult to know who they are. Just know that its when we see this its time to lift up our heads because our redemtion drawth nigh.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Some futher insight to what going on at this time.The entire earth's population will be celebration over this one, except God's elect. God's elect, those seal in their mind with the truth know the end is only a matter of days and hours. The elect are in a state of praising God, and anxiously waiting for the end of the three and a half days. This is going to be a three day Christmas Holiday, and at the end of this celebration, the witnesses will come alive. When they come alive, the torment will be as a terror that has never been. The Christians that have worshipped Antichrist will know they have been taken in by the Antichrist, and the grace that they had is simply not extended to them. Even more tragic to that is the fact that they will face the True Christ as a Harlot, and an unfaithful bride. Think of the shame that will fall on them at this time. Revelation 11:11 "And after three days and an half the spirit [breath] of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them."Most Christians will not even be aware of these two witnesses, or the three and a half day period, until the end of it, for they have been taught that they are going to fly away, for that is what their "rapture doctrine" taught them. In fact most think heaven and eternity is on some far away star or planet, and not here on earth. After the three and a half days, this is what happens in Jerusalem. God will send those spiritual souls back to enter into the two rotting flesh bodies, and these two witness will stand to their feet. When this happens, and the cameras are focused upon the two witnesses, the people of the entire world are going to come under much fear. The people will not be just afraid, but a life threatening terror. And as the two witnesses stood to their feet, this "paralyzing fear ["epipipto" in the Greek]" will grip the entire world, especially the Christians who have worshipped the Antichrist.This will be a Shining moment for all of God's "Elect", who stood against the Antichrist, and observed as the events of the seals and trumpets took place. Each of those events marked the proof that God keeps His word, and his plan is right on time.Revelation 11:12 "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."This is the "rapture" those that followed Satan as the Antichrist are going to miss. The rising of the two saints. At about this same time Christ will be coming here to earth. Revelation 11:13 "And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."Within the hour, the earthquake that is going to split the mount of Olives will take place. A way, or path will be made for Christ's children to make it back to Him. Why would God kill 7000 men at this moment? Those are the angels of Satan will die at this time, all of them. They are the men that God will kill. Satan's time for his story telling is over, and all those fallen angels helping him will be destroyed. The "remnant" that is of God's election will give glory to God because it is over. The tribulation, the testing, these flesh bodies, and this earth age of the flesh will be over. Friend, this is not something that is centuries into the future, but in a matter of a few years. We are living in this final generation.Revelation 11:14 "The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly."Remember that the first woe was the coming to earth of Satan, also called "Abaddon" in the Hebrew, and "Apollyon" in the Greek, with all his locust army to seduce the entire earth. This is what was taught in chapter nine. The first woe ended with their massive appearance on the earth that would cause the peoples of the earth to worship Satan as the Christ. Revelation 11:15 "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."This is the seventh and final trumpet, from the time that the two witnesses stand to their feet, we are dealing in seconds, and minutes for it all to occur. The third woe comes with the seventh trumpet. All prophecy in the entire Bible dealing with the seventh, and last trumpet happens instantly at this time.The voices that boom around the world will announce "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdom of our Lord. He shall reign for ever and ever." When Satan is released at the end of the Millennium period, this will not interfer with God's kingdom on earth. It continues through then, and into eternity, world without end. Remember that when Satan returns after the Millennium kingdom, he will not have his hoards of fallen angels with him. At the seventh trumpet Jesus Christ is returning to be King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. Revelation 11:16 "And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and wrshipped God,"Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."The seventh trumpet brings it all to pass, Revelation 11:18 "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."Judgment has two sides to it. Those who followed the Antichrist will see a time of sorrow , while God's saints and the elect will see their rewards "Those that fear", better translated "those that revere" God's name. They are those that love Him, and kept His Word. The word "destroy" should be translated "corrupted" the earth; They corrupted the earth with their false religion. They called on the spirits, yet they did not know the spirits leading them. They followed false spirits in ignorance, just as the followed the false Christ. They did not test the spirits, and they failed God's test of them. Revelation 11:19 "And the temple of God was open in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament [covenant]: and there were lightning's, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. The "Ark of His Testament" is the "Ark of the Covenant".This is the "Great hail" that we read about in Ezekiel 38:22 also. These hail stones will bring about the end of this earth age, and weigh "a talent", which is about 180 pounds each. They will fall upon Satan's forces in Israel, and on the army of Gog, or Russia while they attack this great nation; "from Rosh onto the House of Israel". The battle of "Hamon-gog" is a battle in the very end of this earth age, whereby Russia and her Allied forces will come against the "House of Israel", who in the latter days is the United States, and Britain. While the battle of "Armageddon" is in the land of Palestine, and it is against the Antichrist and all of his religious system. It is God who will have the victory. This last "woe" most likely takes place very shortly before the completion of this earth age, following the second "woe", which is the death of the two witnesses. The eleventh chapter is a record of what will happen in the last three and one half days before Christ's return. It will take place in this generation. The point we must keep in mind, is that when we do see the two witnesses, and hear them, will you think of them as trouble-makers. Or Are you going to understand and know that they are men from God; sent to speak against the Antichrist [Satan].
     
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