7 of the very best warnings given to the churches

[Zachary]

[SIZE=9pt]All of these warnings are directed ONLY at the churches, which are ignored at their peril.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]None of Jesus’ many warnings in the 4 gospels are included.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Explanations of words are from Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Romans 2:7-11[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] • “… eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]but obey unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]on every soul of man who does evil ... For there is no partiality with God.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Eternal life to those who patiently endure while they seek heaven and live in obedience and righteousness! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Romans 8:6-14[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]• “For to be carnally minded is death (#2288), but to be spiritually minded [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]is life (#2222) and peace [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]… For if you live according to the flesh you will die (#599);[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (#2198).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• “death”[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] – Strong’s #2288, “thanatos” – “the separation of man from God … Rom 5:12, John 5:24, 1 John 3:14” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]“life” – Strong’s #2222, “zoe” – “Eternal life …it has moral associations which are [/SIZE]
inseparable from it, as of holiness and righteousness … John 5:24, 1 John 3:14”
[SIZE=9pt]• “die”[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]– Strong’s #599, “apothnesko” – “eternal separation from God, John 8:24.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• “live”[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]– Strong’s #2198, “zao“ – “spiritual life, John 6:57, Rom 1;17, Rom 8:13b, Gal 2:19-20” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]God makes His home within believers who keep Jesus’ word (John 14:23, Acts 5:32, 1 John 3:24).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Therefore, does God really remain in believers who do NOT keep His word? Just asking.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]This whole entire passage warns that Christians who are carnally-minded, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]and who fail to overcome their fleshly desires, are headed for eternal death![/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]1 Corinthians 15:1-2[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] • “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel … by which also [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God … For we [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end” (Hebrews 3:14) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Please notice the 2 “IF”s above, for they represent the many conditional “IF” verses in the NT.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“… the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]… receiving the end of your faith — the salvation of your souls.” (1 Peter 1:5-9)
There are 15 NT verses that warn about enduring in the faith until the end of your life to receive salvation![/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]And please note that in John 3:15-16 all of the “believes” are in the present (continuing) tense.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Soon, it will be critical to really endure in the faith re: Christian persecution, and not taking the mark of the beast.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Galatians 6:7-8[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] • “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption (#5356), but he who sows to the Spirit [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]will of the Spirit reap everlasting life (#2222).[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]And let us not grow weary while doing good, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]for in due season we shall reap [/SIZE][SIZE=8.5pt](everlasting life)[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt], IF we do not lose heart.[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• “corruption”[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]– Strong’s #5356, “phthora” – “denotes the destruction that comes with corruption …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]… In 2 Peter 2:12 it is used twice: ‘will utterly perish in their own corruption’ ”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]First, notice that corruption is contrasted to everlasting life (and that enduring is mentioned again).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Believers will reap eternal death or everlasting life, depending on whether they sow to their flesh or to the Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Hebrews 12:14[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] • “Pursue … holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Paul warned: believers need to be [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]slaves of obedience and righteousness to attain holiness (Romans 6:16-19).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Also, from above: Is holiness necessary to keep God’s grace intact? Just asking.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Revelation 2:10-11[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] • “Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life (#2222). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (#2288).”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]In the 1 Corinthians 15 passage above we see how critical it is to endure in the faith until the end of your life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Now in this verse, we see the faithful enduring believer is given the crown of (eternal) life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Yes, it is easily proven from the NT that “the crown of life” refers to eternal life.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Jesus said we are to overcome like He overcame …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]“To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Jesus overcame the world, sin, Satan, persecution, etc.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Writing to the 7 churches, Jesus said those who overcome will receive eternal life, blessings, and honors.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]Revelation 21:7-8[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]• “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death (#2288).”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]First, notice that overcomers are contrasted with sinners.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Jesus is talking about EVERYONE who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner![/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]NO WAY does God condemn non-believers for their sins, and lets believers get away with the same things![/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt]NOT included in the above …[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]•[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] the strong warnings of Jesus in the 4 gospels[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]•[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] the several warnings about sinning believers NOT being allowed into the kingdom of heaven[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]•[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] the 3 harshest warning passages to the churches (Hebrews 6:4-8, Hebrews 10:26-31, 2 Peter 2:20-22)[/SIZE]

 

[Stranger]

Zachary

So, if a person is born-again and then loses their salvation the Holy Spirit must leave them, or else they still have eternal life.

And, if the Holy Spirit leaves them, can they be born-again, again? Funny how nothing is ever said of this in Scripture.

Nothing is said of such a doctrine because you have interpreted these passages wrong.

Take (Rom. 2:7-11) for example. To understand this you must first go back to (Rom.1:17) Paul has just made a statement how that the righteousness of God is revealed. It is revealed by faith. And, "The just shall live by faith". He has more to say on this matter but first he addresses another subject which is the 'wrath of God' revealed. So, from (Rom. 1:18) to (Rom. 3:20), Paul addresses the wrath of God revealed. Paul will pick up with the 'righteousness of God revealed' again in (Rom. 3:21).

So, as you see, the verses you have chosen, (Rom.2:7-11) to threaten believers with loss of salvation for disobedience, fall in 'the wrath of God revealed' section. Paul first explains in (Rom. 1:18) how that "the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;" To hold down the truth in unrighteousness means to suppress the truth. Paul then explains that all men have the truth that God is there and are accountable to God with it. And he shows the immoral downward spiral of all men everywhere who have the truth but reject God and turn to worship other things. (Rom.1:18-32)

Then in (Rom. 2:1-16) Paul addresses another group of people. These are the very moral people. They would agree with Paul and stand judging concerning what he has said about the moral degradation of the people found in (Rom. 1:18-32), because they are to good to do things like that. But instead, Paul rebukes this hypocritical morality. (Rom. 2:1) "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things." Though their immorality is hidden by their good works, they are just as guilty. They trust their works. They don't repent and come to God in faith. (Rom.2:2-4).

Paul goes on to show how if you want to be judged by your works, fine. You will be. But in so doing, you will be found wanting. (Rom.2:5-16) Because, God judges righteously and judges even the secrets of men . (16). And if that is the judgement you want then it will be a day of wrath for you. So those verses, (Rom. 2:7-11) are true but they are not talking about a believer in Christ. They are talking about a good man who rejects God and is willing to be judged by his efforts. In standing in their own goodness, they suppress the truth and the wrath of God will be revealed in them.

Thus your effort with these verses, to make eternal life an earned thing instead of a gift, is incorrect.

Stranger

 

[Zachary]

Stranger,
In Romans, Paul is writing to believers who have chosen (perhaps out of ignorance) to continue being slaves of sin!
This is the #1 thing to keep in mind about the book of Romans.
Don't be side-tracked by Paul's usual method of mixing his dire WARNINGS
in with copious amounts of edifications, exhortations, encouragements, promises, blessings, etc. etc.
This is done for a variety of reasons.

 

[Stranger]

Stranger,
In Romans, Paul is writing to believers who have chosen (perhaps out of ignorance) to continue being slaves of sin!
This is the #1 thing to keep in mind about the book of Romans.
Don't be side-tracked by Paul's usual method of mixing his dire WARNINGS
in with copious amounts of edifications, exhortations, encouragements, promises, blessings, etc. etc.
This is done for a variety of reasons.

I don't think so. Commentators are puzzled as to why Paul wrote Romans as there were no problems in the Roman Church. As (Rom. 1:8) says, their "...faith is spoken of throughout the whole world." Paul is definitely writing to believers, but the subject matter in (Rom. 1:18-3:20) is not believers. It is all of mankind who have the truth but reject God's method of obtaining His righteousness which is by faith.

Again, the verses (Rom.1:7-11) concern a good man trusting in his goodness and not coming to God by faith. And neither the Jew or Gentile will be found worthy and accepted by God by their works. (11-16). Thus Paul says in verse (13), which is an often misused verse, "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.) Indeed, if you can keep the law, then you shall be justified. The only problem is you can't.

And this causes Paul to conclude that section of Romans, (1:18-3:20), with the words, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Stranger

 

[Zachary]

Commentators are puzzled as to why Paul wrote Romans as there were no problems in the Roman Church.
As (Rom. 1:8) says, their "...faith is spoken of throughout the whole world."
Paul is definitely writing to believers, but the subject matter in (Rom. 1:18-3:20) is not believers.

I don't care if your commentators are puzzled.
And I'm not talking about Romans 1.
Romans 6 and Romans 8 obviously are very heavy-duty warnings
to those believers in Rome re: their sinnings and walking in the flesh.
All you need to do is read, and the Spirit is not even req'd to give revelation on this!

 

[Stranger]

I don't care if your commentators are puzzled.
And I'm not talking about Romans 1.
Romans 6 and Romans 8 obviously are very heavy-duty warnings
to those believers in Rome re: their sinnings and walking in the flesh.
All you need to do is read, and the Spirit is not even req'd to give revelation on this!

Well, I understand you are not talking about (Rom.1). Which means you are ignoring the context of what Paul is saying. That context I explained. Instead of disproving what I said, you simply say, you want to keep ignoring the context. It is this method of interpretation, your method, that you can make the Bible say anything you want. The verses of (Romans 2) that you choose to bring condemnation on the believer, say nothing of the sort. Because they are not talking to the believer.

Be specific when you talk about (Rom. 6 and 8). What are these so called 'heavy duty warnings'?

I did read. And the Roman Churches faith was known throughout the whole world. (1:8) So, where is this so called 'problem' you have dreamed up. Because if you have found a problem with the Roman Church in Paul's writings, then you have made it up. Because Paul gives none. If you disagree, then show me.

Stranger

 

[Zachary]

Well, I understand you are not talking about (Rom.1). Which means you are ignoring the context of what Paul is saying. That context I explained. Instead of disproving what I said, you simply say, you want to keep ignoring the context. It is this method of interpretation, your method, that you can make the Bible say anything you want. The verses of (Romans 2) that you choose to bring condemnation on the believer, say nothing of the sort. Because they are not talking to the believer.
Be specific when you talk about (Rom. 6 and 8). What are these so called 'heavy duty warnings'?
I did read. And the Roman Churches faith was known throughout the whole world. (1:8) So, where is this so called 'problem' you have dreamed up. Because if you have found a problem with the Roman Church in Paul's writings, then you have made it up. Because Paul gives none. If you disagree, then show me.

News Flash! ... context can change during a very long letter!
Okay, Romans 2 MAY be debatable as to exactly who is being addressed.
Re: Romans 6 and 8, you are completely and totally clueless ... Can't you read the OP?
Paul writes a lot of exaggerations in his epistles!
The faith Paul talks about here ... what does it entail? ...
One can have faith in Jesus and His gospel, but also be a habitual sinner.

IMO, showing you much of anything is extremely difficult, so I am saying Chow!

 

[Stranger]

News Flash! ... context can change during a very long letter!
Okay, Romans 2 MAY be debatable as to exactly who is being addressed.
Re: Romans 6 and 8, you are completely and totally clueless ... Can't you read the OP?
Paul writes a lot of exaggerations in his epistles!
The faith Paul talks about here ... what does it entail? ...
One can have faith in Jesus and His gospel, but also be a habitual sinner.

IMO, showing you much of anything is extremely difficult, so I am saying Chow!

How am I clueless when I haven't said anything about Romans 6 or 8. I simply asked you to be specific.

What exaggerations are you talking about that Paul writes?

Explain your last statement.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

[SIZE=9pt]All of these warnings are directed ONLY at the churches, which are ignored at their peril.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]None of Jesus’ many warnings in the 4 gospels are included.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Explanations of words are from Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=9pt]Romans 8:6-14[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]• “For to be carnally minded is death (#2288), but to be spiritually minded [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]is life (#2222) and peace [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]… For if you live according to the flesh you will die (#599);[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (#2198).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• “death”[/SIZE][SIZE=9pt] – Strong’s #2288, “thanatos” – “the separation of man from God … Rom 5:12, John 5:24, 1 John 3:14” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• [/SIZE][SIZE=9pt]“life” – Strong’s #2222, “zoe” – “Eternal life …it has moral associations which are [/SIZE]
inseparable from it, as of holiness and righteousness … John 5:24, 1 John 3:14”
[SIZE=9pt]• “die”[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]– Strong’s #599, “apothnesko” – “eternal separation from God, John 8:24.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]• “live”[/SIZE] [SIZE=9pt]– Strong’s #2198, “zao“ – “spiritual life, John 6:57, Rom 1;17, Rom 8:13b, Gal 2:19-20” [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]God makes His home within believers who keep Jesus’ word (John 14:23, Acts 5:32, 1 John 3:24).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]Therefore, does God really remain in believers who do NOT keep His word? Just asking.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]This whole entire passage warns that Christians who are carnally-minded, [/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]and who fail to overcome their fleshly desires, are headed for eternal death![/SIZE]

You do great disgrace to the Word of God. You take verses from the book of Romans which concern the believers 'sanctification', and twist them to say they speak to our going to Heaven or Hell. (Rom.6-8) deal with the believers constant battle of walking in the Spirit or in the flesh. It's not about Heaven or Hell, it's about overcoming sin and not letting the flesh reign over you. (Rom.6:12) "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof."

Death here is not 'eternal death'. It is death as an agent constantly working in this body of flesh that we as believers have with us. (Rom. 7:23) "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 8:2) "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

To walk after the Spirit is life and peace. (Rom.8:6). To walk after the flesh, is to allow sin to reign in your mortal body, (Rom.6:12) and to walk in death. (Rom.6:16) "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness." The consequences of walking in death is the death process is speeded up in your body, and your spirit cannot enjoy the things of God. And if the believer cannot free himself from this enslavement then God will bring discipline in his life and if that doesn't work, God may take him home.

You can see this law of sin and death played out in non-believers also. Take a man who is 50 years old and a 'good man', but not a believer. He is a law abiding individual who doesn't drink, smoke, or run around. Then take a man his same age who has has turned himself over to the licentious life style for years. And see by there appearance the difference. One will have not aged that much because of his life style. The other will absolutely look like death because he speeded it up in his life.

Stranger