7th trump!

[setfree]

Is there a difference in the 7th trump(7 trumpets of judgment by the angels) and the trumpets blown in Ex. 19:19 "And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake,and God answered him by a voice"I have learned that in the feast of trumpets there are about 100 blast of trumpets.Four main blastTekiah "blast"-this is one long blast.sh'varin "broken"-this is 3 short blast.t'ruah "alarm"-this is a series of blast.Tekiah Hagadolah "great blast"-this is the longest and loudest blast.

 

[archierieus]

Why would there be a connection between the trumpets blown in Exodus and the 7th trumpet in Revelation?

 

[Christina]

Excellent question setfree As I have said on many occasions there is almost nothing in the New testament that is not in the Old this is the forerunner (first) penecost.There is nothing new under the the sun what was before will be again Exodus of course is the story of God rescuing his people and leading them to the promised land This(Exodus) is a type of what he is doing in these end times if we follow him he will lead us to the promised land that is heaven on earth with Christ as King of Kings this is the 7th trump when he returns for his people, blessed are the overcomers.Exodus 19:19 "And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice."This is at mount Sinai, and God's People are here to hear God speak to them. This is the first Pentecost day, that will be remembered for all times in this earth age. Both this first Pentecost day, and the Pentecost day when the Holy Spirit came to indwell man, are reference points to another Pentecost day in the time of the end when all flesh on the face of the earth will hear the Spirit of God.Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and sighs in the earth benearth; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:" [19] "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:" [20]So what happens here? The seventh trump sounds and Jesus Christ returns to this earth. It is the false Christ that will be here when the cloven tongue is spoken through his elect,(mark 13) when they are put on trialAct 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "There only problem here is that most of the people at this end time will be following the wrong Christ, the false Christ Satan, as he sits in Jerusalem claiming himself to be God, with the world believing it. If you call on the wrong lord, you are with Satan. Jesus is the only name that a person can be saved by. You have to have the true doctrine of the Word, or you will chase after the false christ. Your doctrine should be the entire Word of God.Exodus 19:20 "And the Lord came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the Lord called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up."Here goes Moses back up on the mount to receive more of the Word from God. Moses went up the first trip to get the warning to get the people ready for the Pentecost, the seeing and hearing from God Himself. So this is Moses' second trip up the mountain.Exodus 19:21 "And the Lord said unto Moses, "Go down, charge the People, lest they break through unto the Lord to gave, and many of them perish."When Moses reached the top of the mount, God now told him to go back down and warn the people to stay away from the mount.Exodus 19:22 "And let the priests also, which come near to the Lord, sanctify themselves, lest the Lord break forth upon them." Get those priests and preachers to get their act together, and stop fooling around: Sanctify yourself, get yourself cleaned up also. If you are a reverend, you had better be right with and in God's Word, or you are in serious trouble before the Lord. God starts his judgment at the pulpit, with the priests and preachers.Exodus 19:23 "And Moses said unto the Lord, "The People cannot come up to mount Sinai: for Thou chargedst us, saying, `Set bounds about the mount, and sanctify it.' "Moses has been up the hill for the third time, and now he is getting a little upset with the Lord for making him go down again with the same message: "Sanctify yourself, get right before the Lord, get yourself cleaned up to face the Lord." Moses is an old man of over eighty years old, and the trips up the mountain must be wearing him out. You see God knows the people, and they get very lazy at times, and like to take their shortcuts. He know just how careless the people are in following His instructions. Just look around today.Most Christians have discarded the book of Revelation as to mixed up to understand, and many even think that the old testament is over and done with. This is a warning to us, just as it was a warning to the children of Israel camped at the foot of mount Sinai about to receive the Law and commandments of His People to follow. God was serious about warning the people of the danger coming upon not following His instructions.Exodus 19:24 "And the Lord said unto him, "Away, get thee down, and thou hast come up, thou, and Aaron with thee: but let not the priests and the people break through to come up unto the Lord, lest He break forth upon them." Moses wanted to sit and God is getting a little short with Moses; telling him to get down there and warn the People; and bring Aaron when you come up here again.Exodus 19:25 "So Moses went down unto the People, and spake unto them."Our Father always gives us a double witness, and several warning before the danger is allowed to happen. You can count on His Word. If you search the Scripture for the truth.

 

[takaki]

setfree... here is my take on your question. I think the connection is between 1Th.4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and Exd 19:19 "And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice."The reason why I connect both of these, rather than the 7 trumpets of Revelation is that 7 trumpets in Revelation are blown by angels to bring judgment. On the other hand, Exd and 1Th are trumpets of invitation, former for Moses and people to the presence of JHVH God and the latter for His Church to be raptured in the air.I don't think the trumpet of 1Th 4:16 has anything to do with judgment because Paul exhort at the end of the chapter "Wherefore comfort one another with these words"(v18) and you wouldn't usually be comforted by the thought of judgment.Exd 19:19 is unique experience of Israel, to audibly hear God that "the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever."(Exd 19:9) The rapture will be another unique experience of Church, to be caught up in the air to meet Jesus personally and to be with Him forever. Both of these unique experiences will be triggered at the sound of trumpet...

 

[Christina]

(takaki;49656)
setfree... here is my take on your question. I think the connection is between 1Th.4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and Exd 19:19 "And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice."The reason why I connect both of these, rather than the 7 trumpets of Revelation is that 7 trumpets in Revelation are blown by angels to bring judgment. On the other hand, Exd and 1Th are trumpets of invitation, former for Moses and people to the presence of JHVH God and the latter for His Church to be raptured in the air.I don't think the trumpet of 1Th 4:16 has anything to do with judgment because Paul exhort at the end of the chapter "Wherefore comfort one another with these words"(v18) and you wouldn't usually be comforted by the thought of judgment.Exd 19:19 is unique experience of Israel, to audibly hear God that "the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever."(Exd 19:9) The rapture will be another unique experience of Church, to be caught up in the air to meet Jesus personally and to be with Him forever. Both of these unique experiences will be triggered at the sound of trumpet...
you are mistaken if you read 2 Thess it tells when this happens after the faliing away,after the son of perdition which is the tribulation there is only one second coming of the Lord and one 7th trump describing his coming with a shout and that is after the 5th/6th trump which is the tribulation. The 7th is his comingThere is no other phatom trump the one and only second coming of the LORD at the 7th trump there is no pre-trib rapture written you may chose to believe it but its not written it is a theroy of men

 

[Jordan]

(Kriss;49666)
(takaki;49656)
setfree... here is my take on your question.I think the connection is between 1Th.4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" and Exd 19:19 "And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice."The reason why I connect both of these, rather than the 7 trumpets of Revelation is that 7 trumpets in Revelation are blown by angels to bring judgment. On the other hand, Exd and 1Th are trumpets of invitation, former for Moses and people to the presence of JHVH God and the latter for His Church to be raptured in the air.I don't think the trumpet of 1Th 4:16 has anything to do with judgment because Paul exhort at the end of the chapter "Wherefore comfort one another with these words"(v18) and you wouldn't usually be comforted by the thought of judgment.Exd 19:19 is unique experience of Israel, to audibly hear God that "the people may hear when I speak with thee, and believe thee for ever."(Exd 19:9) The rapture will be another unique experience of Church, to be caught up in the air to meet Jesus personally and to be with Him forever. Both of these unique experiences will be triggered at the sound of trumpet...
you are mistaken if you read 2 Thess it tells when this happens after the son of perdition which is after the tribulation there is only one coming of the Lord and one 7th trump and that is after the 5th/6th trump which is the tribulation.There is no other phatom trump this is talking the one and only coming of the LORD at the 7th trump there is no pre-trib rapture it is a theroy of menKriss is right takaki. There is only one second coming. (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, I Corinthians 15:40-58, I Thessalonians 4:14-18 / II Thessalonians 2, Revelation 11:15

 

[samy]

I agree, there is only ONE SECOND COMING! No pre-trib rapture. Don't let anyone deceive you, as Paul writes to the Thessalonians regarding "the day of the Lord and our gathering together with him" (a rough paraphrase of 2 Thess 2:1ff). Chapter One suggests that judgment of the enemies of the saints accompanies the relief of the suffering saints, 2 Thess 1:5-9. samy

 

[setfree]

On the Last trump in revelation.....If 1 Corinthians was written around 55 A.D. and the last trump is mentioned. How did they understand the last trumpet?..... because I understand that Rev. was written around 95 A.D.?

 

[Christina]

It is the inspired Word of God how did any prophet know what was to come in the future.

 

[setfree]

You misunderstand....1 Cor. was written before Rev. when Paul wrote to the Corinthians he did not explain the 7 trumpets in Rev. How did the Corinthians know what the 7th(last) trump was about?

 

[Jordan]

Same thing in the Old Testament...Daniel 7:13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Christina]

Paul understood Gods plan he was given knowledge he explained what would happen in the End at the last trump. There is only one last trump because he didnt give the entire prophecy of Rev.doesnt change anything the Cor. wouldnt have understood it It wasnt for them it was for us in the latter days. The Whole of Gods Word is that way one writer gives us one part another fills in the details. Time means nothing to Gods truth I would hope you would understand this and not hold the Word of God to the physical laws of men.

 

[setfree]

Kriss,I am trying to understand, but I want to study this out for myself...just as you probably did. In time it will all come together for me. I try to elimanate a lot of trash...I ask question to understand. I come across this and did not understand how they related. You gave some very good information....I just approach everything very cautiously. I have been decieved by mans teaching before. It takes some people a little longer to digest God's word. I am one of those people....but when I get it...then no one can decieve me.

 

[Christina]

(setfree;49849)
Kriss,I am trying to understand, but I want to study this out for myself...just as you probably did. In time it will all come together for me. I try to elimanate a lot of trash...I ask question to understand. I come across this and did not understand how they related. You gave some very good information....I just approach everything very cautiously. I have been decieved by mans teaching before. It takes some people a little longer to digest God's word. I am one of those people....but when I get it...then no one can decieve me.
Thats fine setfree I wasnt critizing just reminding its easy to slip into our human ways of seeing things.I liked your question I could see you were searching deep.I gave you a deeper answer because I wanted you to see how the old and new testament wittness to each other.

 

[samy]

Setfree and Kriss, may I simply point out that in 1 Cor 15:52 Paul does not say "at the last TRUMPET" he says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound..." He was refering to the trumpet that we see mentioned in Matthew 24:31, that we would learn later from John would be the 7th and last trumpet. A "trump" is the sound made by a trumpet. samy

 

[setfree]

(thesuperjag;49842)
Same thing in the Old Testament...Daniel 7:13 - I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.Matthew 24:30 - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.Revelation 1:7 - Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
There is not a mention of a trumpet in these verses.

 

[setfree]

(samy;50059)
Setfree and Kriss, may I simply point out that in 1 Cor 15:52 Paul does not say "at the last TRUMPET" he says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound..." He was refering to the trumpet that we see mentioned in Matthew 24:31, that we would learn later from John would be the 7th and last trumpet. A "trump" is the sound made by a trumpet. samy
It just seems that if the jews were to understand the trumpet in any of the New testament text...then they had to be familiar with the teaching of the trumpets...somewhere in the Old Testament teachings possible. I am in the process of studing the trumpets of the Old Testament to see if there is a connection. I came across the passage in Ex. and wanted some input. My Old Testament knowledge is very limited.

 

[Christina]

(samy;50059)
Setfree and Kriss, may I simply point out that in 1 Cor 15:52 Paul does not say "at the last TRUMPET" he says, "at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound..." He was refering to the trumpet that we see mentioned in Matthew 24:31, that we would learn later from John would be the 7th and last trumpet. A "trump" is the sound made by a trumpet. samy
You are correct Samy thank you for reminding me of that

 

[lecoop]

It is very simple to say that "the last trump" is the 7th trump of Revelation. It is just that easy to be wrong. Let's look at the trumpets:Matthew 24:31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.The timeframe of this trumpet is related to Rev. 19: Jesus on the white horse. It does not say who blows this trumpet. Rev. 19 does not mention this trumpet, nor does it mention the angels sent out.1 Corinthians 15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. This is Paul's "last trump." This could be, and probably is, the last of a series. But Paul did not enlighten us. It probably is NOT the last trumpet blast ever to be sounded. There are no verses telling us that angels are sent out to gather every trumpet from the face of the earth, so that there could be no more trumpet blasts. Therefore, it is most likely to be the last of a series, such as one of the Jewish feasts. We can be sure that those that first read Paul's letter understood it to be the last trumpet blast of a series, at a Jewish feast. It could be compared to:1 Thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Here Paul gives us more information: this is the trump of God - not an angel sounding.Revelation 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.Revelation 11:15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.This is the 7th angel sounding his trumpet. It is not a "trump of God." An angel sounds it. Neither is there ANY verses here at the 7th trumpet, that even gives a hint that Jesus is coming. What is strongly hinted is that this 7th trumpet "marks" the exact midpoint of the 70th week. We don't see JEsus coming back, until chapter 19, over 3 1/2 years from the sounding of this seventh trumpet.Coop

 

[Christina]

Your right about all those verse's but you are not getting these are all describing the 7th and last trump the 2nd coming of the lord.As I explained in the other thread the trump is the sound of the trumpet that starts the action What Action the second coming and all that involes He comes on a white horse.The second white horse The first white horse in Rev is the Antichrist http://www.christianityboard.com/two-white...ht=white+horses