A Fresh Look At Salvation

[gumby]

Tell me this kay-gee does water do the saving or does christ? john the baptist even humbles himself saying that he only baptizes with water but jesus baptizes with fire and the holy spirit, Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26, Acts 1:5 and Acts 11:16. There again though water is sybolism and therefor cannot save anyone jesus the living word does though. No offense but what you seem to be into sounds dangeriously close to idolitry, there is no need to be baptized under some preacher with water and in some man made division church.

 

[Christina]

Agreed gumby So what is this fire Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Luk 3:17 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Ans. Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire. It burns up what is evil and refines what is good

 

[gumby]

all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Luk 3:17 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 1Cr 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1Cr 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Ans. Hbr 12:29 For our God [is] a consuming fire. It burns up what is evil and refines what is good

Thanks for the support christina, here are a few more verses regarding god as a consuming fire. Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 9:3 and Isaiah 33:14. God bless

 

[kay-gee]

Tell me this kay-gee does water do the saving or does christ? john the baptist even humbles himself saying that he only baptizes with water but jesus baptizes with fire and the holy spirit, Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26, Acts 1:5 and Acts 11:16. There again though water is sybolism and therefor cannot save anyone jesus the living word does though. No offense but what you seem to be into sounds dangeriously close to idolitry, there is no need to be baptized under some preacher with water and in some man made division church.

Sorry I didn't realize that all those verses were wrong! All we need is YOUR opinion to be saved.all the best...

 

[gumby]

Sorry I didn't realize that all those verses were wrong! All we need is YOUR opinion to be saved. all the best...

Those verses are fact, i dare you to find me one place in scripture that says that water does the saving and that you need to be baptized through some preacher.

 

[jerryjohnson]

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Water baptism is an act of obedience to Christ.

 

[gumby]

Thats correct its a sign of OUTWARD obedience and sybolism to the coomunity that you have accepted jesus as your savior although no where will one find in the word were it replaces water with our almighty lord and savior jesus christ.

 

[Christina]

Water like fire is symbolic for Christ He is the living Waters when one is dipped in water it is symbolic for emercing yourself in Christ ... There is one baptism you must confess your belief in Christ then repent of your sins in his name this is the one baptism you cant have repentance without belif or belief without repentance Water fire holy spirt are all of God/Christ He is the consuming firehe is the living water he is the holy spirit Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers [that] water the earth. 1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

[logabe]

Those verses are fact' date=' i dare you to find me one place in scripture that says that water does the saving and that you need to be baptized through some preacher.[/QUOTE'] 1st Peter 3:20-21, 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Logabe

 

[kay-gee]

Those verses are fact' date=' i dare you to find me one place in scripture that says that water does the saving and that you need to be baptized through some preacher.[/QUOTE']1st Peter 3:21 but since you've dismissed all the verses I gave you, there is no point. end of discussion.all the best...

 

[kay-gee]

[/B]

 

[forgivenWretch]

There is not a solitary scripture anywhere declaring it saves either

 

[Christina]

This has become a ridiculous conversation everyone keeps quoting verse's but few even want to bother to pay any attention to what they mean ... A tub of water doesn't do a thing except make you wet ..to say other wise is just plain a lack of using our brain matter... There isn't a baptism of Christ and a baptism of water and a baptism of fire and a baptism of holy spirit Eph 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism Can anyone read his Word ???????????????? If there is One baptism What is it ?? All these things !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its ONE thus the Word of God ONE Baptism it starts with accepting 1.Jesus Christ then we must repent to cleanse/purge the soul of the old sin that is 2.repentance the holy spirit then comes to dwell in us it is a 3.consuming fire that refines us it is the 4.living water that we live by ....these are all ONE BAPTISM If you think a tub of water saves you then why did John baptise Jesus in repentance?he was out of the water when the spirit came down on him ..did the water grant him repentance? ..If so then we could forget about Christ why do we need him at all ?..we can all just go jump in a lake and ask the water to forgive our sins ...

 

[forgivenWretch]

Eph 4:5[/URL]One Lord' date=' one faith, one baptism[/SIZE'] Can anyone read his Word ???????????????? If there is One baptism What is it ?? All these things !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Its ONE thus the Word of God ONE Baptism it starts with accepting 1.Jesus Christ then we must repent to cleanse/purge the soul of the old sin that is 2.repentance the holy spirit then comes to dwell in us it is a 3.consuming fire that refines us it is the 4.living water that we live by ....these are all ONE BAPTISM If you think a tub of water saves you then why did John baptise Jesus in repentance?he was out of the water when the spirit came down on him ..did the water grant him repentance? ..If so then we could forget about Christ why do we need him at all ?..we can all just go jump in a lake and ask the water to forgive our sins ...

Amen!

 

[gumby]

1st Peter 3:20-21, 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: Logabe

Ok im wring here i admit that, but still without christs death on the cross we would have no water, without god sacrificing his only begotten son to come in the flesh and be crucified we would have no water. And for the last time its gods love that saves and gods son who paid the price on the cross not water.

 

[gumby]

Sorry for the multiple posts but i have a few other scriptures as well i would like to add to the subject at hand. Titus 3:5, Ephesians 5:26, Acts 22:16 and 1st Corinthians 6:11.

 

[Butch5]

I really should not butt in here, but I believe the Bible is clear that there actually are two "baptisms". The first, and the only one that counts, occurs at the instant that a person obtains a true, heart-felt belief in Jesus as the only Savior who died for all sinners (as a perfect, flawless, sinless propitious sacrifice to God) and then arose three days later, the first-fruits of all those who find salvation in God. When that belief is obtained, the Holy Spirit enters into that believer's body to reside there for the rest of that person's life on earth. It is at that instant of entrance that a person is born again in the Spirit of God. Since God is both perfect and all-knowing, no one who receives the Holy Spirit in this manner can possibly lose their salvation because God cannot make a mistake. He already knows who will love Him, and who will reject Him.

The other baptism is "water" baptism by full emersion. This is a symbolic act of public admission to complete subservience to Jesus that does not in any way actually result in a person's salvation. I have read arguments (debates?) that claim that water baptism is necessary for salvation, but anyone who adheres to that thought process does not really understand God or how He works. He is omnipotent and omniscient, being all powerful and all knowing. He does not need man's assistance with anything, including the process of salvation. That process is His alone to freely bequest on those individuals who believe in Jesus as the Savior and who repent of their sinful ways. He gently calls all persons to come unto Him by action of the Holy Spirit, but He never forces His will on anyone. If they heed His call, and if they follow the narrow pathway He has clearly laid before them, they will find salvation. If they ignore His gentle call, they will remain under His wrath at the judgement. And if they ignore His call enough times, He will give up on them and even harden their hearts so they cannot possibly find salvation.

Just some of my thoughts,

Rank Stranger

A few questions,

1. Where dos Scripture teach that Christ was a sacrifice "to" God?
2. Where does Scripture teach that one receives that Spirit upon belief?
3. Where does Scripture say one cannot lose salvation?
4. Where does Scripture teach that baptism is a symbolic act?

 

[Butch5]

No contradiction at all. John 3:16 says "believe in". to "believe in", you must BELIEVE HIM. If you Believe HIM...you will do what He says. Check out Mark 16:16 He who BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be saved. If you not baptized, you don't really believe.

all the best...

Being baptized and believing are not the same. So by this you are saying that the thief on the cross did not really believe?

The new covenant had not yet been instituted when the thief was saved.

 

[Butch5]

Me and my good work buddy were just talking about this, i beleive that there is more to the bible than salvation but that salvation through jesus is the most important part of the bible. We are baptized with fire and the holy spirit and washed of all our sins through christ death on the cross. Not tp be rude as well but water baptism is purly for symbolic purposes speaking out publicaly to a church or community. There is no need of water baptism as long as your baptized through jesus and in the name of jesus.

God bless

Actually salvation is not the most important issue in the Bible, it is a secondary issue, a means to an end. Then primary issue in the Bible is the Kingdom of God. Jesus and that apostles preached the kingdom of God, not personal salvation. Salvation is an issue but not the main one. Having said that Can you show me where Scripture teaches that baptism is symbolic? I know of no Scripture that teaches such. I do however see where Scripture teaches that it is a representation of Spiritual baptism.

 

[Butch5]

God bless

Total error! Be careful. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Romans 6:3-4, Col 2:12,

Gal 3:27, 1st Peter 3:21, 1st John 5:8, John, Acts 10:47-48, John3:5,

Mark 16:16

all the best...

Tell me this kay-gee does water do the saving or does christ? john the baptist even humbles himself saying that he only baptizes with water but jesus baptizes with fire and the holy spirit, Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:26, Acts 1:5 and Acts 11:16. There again though water is sybolism and therefor cannot save anyone jesus the living word does though. No offense but what you seem to be into sounds dangeriously close to idolitry, there is no need to be baptized under some preacher with water and in some man made division church.

It is not the water that saves, as Peter tells us. It is God who saves. However, as Scripture teaches us God uses water. We can see that God uses water by looking at Scripture. Notice Noah was saved by the flood, the Israelites were saved by the Red Sea. Naaman was cleansed of leprosy in the Jordan, one blind man was given site at the pool and the other with spittle, we see God healing at the pool of Bethesda, etc. Why would we expect it to be different now? Romans 6 clearly teaches us that water baptism is a representation of our being born again.