A scientific argument for formal equivalence?

[HammerStone]

I think this becomes an argument for at least reading the formal equivalence translations (IE: ESV, NASB, NKJV, KJV):

Reading challenging works by the greatest writers in the English language such as Shakespeare's King Lear and Philip Larkin's poetry provides a ‘rocket-boost’ to the brain that cannot be matched by more simplistic modern books, research suggests.

Link: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2261636/Reading-Shakespeare-Wordsworth-offer-better-therapy-self-help-books.html

Obviously, this doesn't factor in the Holy Spirit, but I think maybe I now understand my inability to totally put down a more formal translation of the Bible.

What say you?

 

[7angels]

i think it would depend upon your understanding levels. i know of a guy who can read just about anything but his understanding level is about 8th grade. if he does not read things broken down to a simple way of speaking he has trouble. i doubt reading poetry or Shakespeare or whoever will stimulate the brain if you don't even understand what it is you are reading.

be blessed

 

[Rex]

I do agree, and the surface evidence indicates something is going on in the brain. Those writings are deep thoughts that prompt people to consider a deeper meaning in the expressions of the writer. It would be of more interest to me to ask the subjects what exactly is on their mind during the test. So we may yet consider the HS may be involved If the reading triggers thoughts of life and death, along with the innermost thoughts of the writer.

To 7angels
The bible is, or should be a case of evidence to those that believe, it is capable of being used by the HS to minister and teach the simplest of men yet continue to nurture and feed great men that spend their entire lives with it. Babies don't understand and fully comprehend language at birth, but as they listen and watch they some how learn to understand the expressions of words until an elementary communication is established. Levels of understanding is not the issue IMO but for lake of a better term "massaging" the mind to work and lay hold of the whats is said.

The ability to understand complex issues and summarize them into simpler terms is the very nature of parables.
And of course the meaning is not completely understood without something that is know our shared in common with the speaker.

and the hearer

 

[biggandyy]

My cognitive abilities weren't actually reached until I got into college and started studying the Romantic Era poets. But even then, if it weren't for the class I was taking, the Professor, and the backdrop of that class, it would have not been much more than words on paper.

The class? It was a Philosophy 400 level class (though I was a Geology major and never took a philosophy class before). The backdrop was comparing the Romantic poets to contemporary television.

The TV show in particular? Star Trek (the 1960s drama). The class? Star Trek and Modern Man. Since Star Trek was important to me it made the dead poets important. Entire stanzas of Romantic Period poetry were lifted word for word in some of the episodes. Some episodes were simply retellings of those great poems and poets' works.

I suppose what I am saying is simply reading the works without some sort of "hook" to hang the material on in our own personal lives is nothing more than an exercise in word recognition rather than establishing a grounds for building critical thinking apparatus.

 

[HammerStone]

The parables are an excellent example, Rex; even when they are broken down into simple language, they remain difficult to understand. It is curious to read how Jesus responds to his disciples at varying times. Sometimes he'll explain the parable in private, yet others he won't explain it at all. It's also very interesting that he would share a parable publicly and then not reveal the meaning except in private to his disciples. Obviously, this is commentary on how the message is spread, but I think one has to wonder if people who heard the parable but were maybe not privy to his inner circle at that time (or even weren't believers at the time they heard it) would let their minds work on the parable puzzle to have an eureka moment later on through the Holy Spirit?

What has kept me from going down the total dynamic equivalence path is that the figurative language is removed. Figurative language makes you think by default; it's not always entirely evident as to what the author(s) intended. More formal versions tend to preserve this ambiguity. A great simple example is Psalms 1:1. The NIV 2011 does better than the old NIV, but versions like the HCSB miss the metaphor of walking, standing, and sitting. This means a definite progression and refers to ones status, but a version might change the wording up because this is not clear to a modern reader. Many would read this and simply say that it covers different roles, but that's it.

My cognitive abilities weren't actually reached until I got into college and started studying the Romantic Era poets. But even then, if it weren't for the class I was taking, the Professor, and the backdrop of that class, it would have not been much more than words on paper.

Well, this is where I find myself frustrated with our Protestant tradition at times. Truth be told, we need a guide/teacher/pastor/whatever you want to call it to teach us. That means traditions for understanding and that means teachers and being involved with someone locally who can help you. As Protestants, we need to realize that these things are not infallible like our Catholic bretheren maintain, but that God works through people just like he did for the Eunuch from Ethiopia through Philip.

I don't believe that most people cannot learn figurative language. I believe that most of us are too lazy to do it, and things like Google have pushed that laziness even further.

In your case Andy, it was tough, but you learned and even grew to appreciate it. I agree fancy words are just fancy words on their own, but I also believe in II Timothy 3:16-17 when it says that all Scripture is given for those things - which involve the legwork.

 

[biggandyy]

I was lent a tape series from RC Sproul that set my foot on the path of the Reformation as well as Protestantism.

If you send me your real life address I will ship them over to you. Even before I understood the scriptures I was a fan of RC and he was my "hook" into the entire Rational Christianity.

 

[HammerStone]

Which series is it? (The reason I ask, is that it might be available online, and honestly I'd rather you have actual material to give to someone who might not have the luxury of the internet.)

RC Sproul is one of the good guys, IMHO, of understanding where tradition fits into things. My lament is more for many of my own Baptist and nondenominational brethren who get so caught up in the anti-traditionalism of popular church culture. I think it's fine to be a church that isn't traditional, for the record, but that when you go anti-, you're entering dangerous waters. The church's job, through the use of both the Holy Spirit and reason, is be that teacher. I believe in the perspicuity of Scripture (aka the self-evident clarity of the Bible), but that doesn't necessarily translate to reading any one single passage and knowing everything about that passage right at that moment. There are too many references to searching things out.

This article was getting at things in a way, because it's suggesting that the hard things do make you reflect. A more difficult and metrical (fancy word for poetical) version will get the old brain kicking into high gear.

 

[Rex]

The church's job, through the use of both the Holy Spirit and reason, is be that teacher. I believe in the perspicuity of Scripture (aka the self-evident clarity of the Bible), but that doesn't necessarily translate to reading any one single passage and knowing everything about that passage right at that moment. There are too many references to searching things out.

The word is active "alive" sharper than double edged sword, dividing even the soul and spirit, is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
We would be the wiser to remember such verses and to listen to one another by which the greater potion of the knowledge of the Holy one has made Himself evident in my life. though I am guilty of for the most part, forsaking the gathering of the brethren under the umbrella of denominations I hold fast to that which is spoken of in context to the growth and glory of Christ Jesus that longs for the complete knowledge of the salvation I find at work with-in my innermost man. Knowing it shall not be complete until the spirit within me, be joined to a tent of body worthy of knowing and harboring the fullness of the promise I now have tasted and long for.

So may we press on that you bear my weakness as I also endure my brethren in the hand shake of the Spirit that is at work within us all.