About the Sabbath 7th. day Gen. 2:2

[WalterandDebbie]

Can we get out of context when we overlook about the Sabbath 7th.Day from the begining Genesis 2:2 ? but was that day set apart for man to fellowship with his maker for a particular reason? and was that day santified on a certain day of the week like Mon. -Sun. or was it from its origin on that 7th day like it says from Gen. 2:2 ? It is our belief that The Sabbath Day was and still is the 7th. day of GOD's creation of this universe on earth. Eventhough we are among different sequence of calendars for different nations. How would one discover how to keep the 7th. day Sabbath holy from all the rest of the days like it says in Exodus 20:8, Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2. surely Moses, Jesus, and the apostle Paul did not break the context of the holy scriptures. but are we suppose to do likewise or go about doing our own way shape, form, or fasion? Because some of us use to keep Sunday or on any day of the week or still do count from Sun. to Sun. (like we use to) until we had stuided through the different times of sequences to get to the full knowledge of the love of the truth by doing so inorder to come under certain scriptures rightly dividing the words of the truth II Tim. 2:15. Would there be a difference in the way that you would remember to keep the Sabbath Day Holy? or do you keep any or all days the same?

 

[Raeneske]

Can we get out of context when we overlook about the Sabbath 7th.Day from the begining Genesis 2:2 ? but was that day set apart for man to fellowship with his maker for a particular reason? and was that day santified on a certain day of the week like Mon. -Sun. or was it from its origin on that 7th day like it says from Gen. 2:2 ? It is our belief that The Sabbath Day was and still is the 7th. day of GOD's creation of this universe on earth. Eventhough we are among different sequence of calendars for different nations. How would one discover how to keep the 7th. day Sabbath holy from all the rest of the days like it says in Exodus 20:8, Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2. surely Moses, Jesus, and the apostle Paul did not break the context of the holy scriptures. but are we suppose to do likewise or go about doing our own way shape, form, or fasion? Because some of us use to keep Sunday or on any day of the week or still do count from Sun. to Sun. (like we use to) until we had stuided through the different times of sequences to get to the full knowledge of the love of the truth by doing so inorder to come under certain scriptures rightly dividing the words of the truth II Tim. 2:15. Would there be a difference in the way that you would remember to keep the Sabbath Day Holy? or do you keep any or all days the same?

The 7th Day Sabbath brings man back in harmony with his Creator. It also brings all of creation into harmony as well, all harmoniously resting and worshipping the Creator on His Sacred Day. About considereing everyday alike, such a teaching is usually taken out of context:

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

This entire chapter is about doubtful disputations. It is not doubtful, that the Lord blessed and set the 7th Day Sabbath and set it apart for holy use in Genesis. And when that day was made, who was kept in mind? Mankind. God rested, with us in mind. Continuing:

Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Doubtful disputations, as pertaining to food. That's what this entire chapter is about, and it's used out of context to say that people do not have to keep the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the
Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Wouldn't this seem out of place, to be talking about food, and randomly switch to talking about the Sabbath? Why is a day mentioned, in the chapter about what you eat? Here's one clue:

Isaiah 58:4-5 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

What is a disputation? A debate. Not only are they admonished in Romans not to judge one another in their eating of certain foods, they were to refuse to enter into debate about food, nor fasting, eating, nor not eating.

To discover how to keep the 7th Day Sabbath Holy, one would look at the principles out laid in the OT, and then the NT. :) Upon learning about the Creators Sabbath, we must learn to sacrifice our own cherished opinions.

 

[Thegoodground]

The 7th Day Sabbath brings man back in harmony with his Creator. It also brings all of creation into harmony as well, all harmoniously resting and worshipping the Creator on His Sacred Day. About considereing everyday alike, such a teaching is usually taken out of context:

Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

This entire chapter is about doubtful disputations. It is not doubtful, that the Lord blessed and set the 7th Day Sabbath and set it apart for holy use in Genesis. And when that day was made, who was kept in mind? Mankind. God rested, with us in mind. Continuing:

Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Doubtful disputations, as pertaining to food. That's what this entire chapter is about, and it's used out of context to say that people do not have to keep the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the
Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Wouldn't this seem out of place, to be talking about food, and randomly switch to talking about the Sabbath? Why is a day mentioned, in the chapter about what you eat? Here's one clue:

Isaiah 58:4-5 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the Lord?

What is a disputation? A debate. Not only are they admonished in Romans not to judge one another in their eating of certain foods, they were to refuse to enter into debate about food, nor fasting, eating, nor not eating.

To discover how to keep the 7th Day Sabbath Holy, one would look at the principles out laid in the OT, and then the NT. :) Upon learning about the Creators Sabbath, we must learn to sacrifice our own cherished opinions.

 

[justaname]

Chapter 14

Principles of Conscience

1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;

8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

11 For it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,

And every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.

Actually this is about judgement not about just eating, so yes the days considered are in complete context. Verse 3 and 4 are key to understanding this as well as verse 13. By stating one day should be observed over another is exactly what people were doing in Paul's day, which Paul clearly states we are subject to our Master, which is Jesus Christ. If it is you are weak in faith to need to observe the Sabbath, so be it, and serve it to the Lord with all your heart. If it is I see no need for such a thing, so be it, and allow me to serve the Lord with all my heart, all in good conscience.

What many do not understand is the liberty in Christ, which is a freedom indeed. It is acceptance from God we all must seek, not acceptance from other men yet not to the fault of another man, meaning self denial is better than causing strife with your neighbor. We are free to do what we do in good conscience, not grieving the Holy Spirit. If it is we have guilt, we are sinning. If it is we doubt, we are best to avoid or observe, yet every man is not alike in their faith. This is where so many bring condemnation to others, and store wrath for themselves, for they don't want anyone doing what is not proper in their own eyes for themselves. With this said all things must align with loving God above all else and loving others as self, anything that falls short is sin. The days do not matter any more than the food.

Is is good to rest? Without question, yet fellowship with God should be continual and not only subject to one day. One can fellowship while at rest, or play, or work, no matter the day or time. Can we observe one day over another? Of course, many observe the resurrection once a year along with a plethora of other believers, many observe the birth at a certain date. But with this said we are not to pass judgement on those who choose not to observe these days just as those who decide to not observe the Sabbath.

What is the Sabbath but a sign of the Mosaic covenant between God and the sons of Israel, and thereby is of the Law. But what does Paul say about the Law?

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—

14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Thereby it is not confidence in the flesh we must maintain, our own attempts to maintain righteousness, but confidence in Him who establishes our righteousness.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

No longer are we held to ordinances under a suzerain being vassals, rather now we have liberty to serve God rightly in Spirit. If in Spirit then in obedience to such in good conscience for love of God and others, not for righteousness sake, but again for love. Then if for love it will not fail, and righteousness will surely follow.

4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

 

[Thegoodground]

If it is you are weak in faith to need to observe the Sabbath, so be it, and serve it to the Lord with all your heart. If it is I see no need for such a thing, so be it, and allow me to serve the Lord with all my heart, all in good conscience.

.

Over the past few months I have been speaking to Rae who is yet to understand the principles of Pauls teaching, as you have expounded in your above post. The weakness is found in believing that God cannot put to one side a commandment in place for a higher manifestation of that command in Christ.

Take this passage for instance:

For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness (Heb 7:18)

Rae cannot process how the Law and its commands in their old format i.e written and legal, are now set aside. The keeping of the Sabbath for example was made weak and useless, not becuase of the One who gave it, but the flesh which could not uphold it requirements becuase its terribly weak. The 10 commandments in fact the entire commandment of the Law is holy,just and good!!!

She needs to step away from her denomination and take an eagles view of the inspired record.

But otherwise a sound response.
TGG

 

[Selene]

Can we get out of context when we overlook about the Sabbath 7th.Day from the begining Genesis 2:2 ? but was that day set apart for man to fellowship with his maker for a particular reason? and was that day santified on a certain day of the week like Mon. -Sun. or was it from its origin on that 7th day like it says from Gen. 2:2 ? It is our belief that The Sabbath Day was and still is the 7th. day of GOD's creation of this universe on earth. Eventhough we are among different sequence of calendars for different nations. How would one discover how to keep the 7th. day Sabbath holy from all the rest of the days like it says in Exodus 20:8, Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2. surely Moses, Jesus, and the apostle Paul did not break the context of the holy scriptures. but are we suppose to do likewise or go about doing our own way shape, form, or fasion? Because some of us use to keep Sunday or on any day of the week or still do count from Sun. to Sun. (like we use to) until we had stuided through the different times of sequences to get to the full knowledge of the love of the truth by doing so inorder to come under certain scriptures rightly dividing the words of the truth II Tim. 2:15. Would there be a difference in the way that you would remember to keep the Sabbath Day Holy? or do you keep any or all days the same?

The Holy Bible tells the history of man's salvation. The Sabbath Day was linked to the 6 day creation. God created everything in 6 days and rested on the 7th day. The Sabbath Day is Saturday, and of the 10 commandments....it is the only commandment that God gave a reason as to why the Israelites should keep the Sabbath. It is considered a rest day, and it is a foreshawdow of things to come. It is the only commandment that can be changed as predicted by the prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Christians no longer follow the Saturday Sabbath. They follow the Lord's Day (Sunday) - His day of the resurrection for it was on Sunday when He rose from the dead. The first day of the week is sometimes called the eighth day and a "new" day. As Christians, we no longer celebrate the Sabbath. We celebrate the Lord's Day, because we are no longer part of the old creation. We are now part of the new creation for we have been made a new creation in Christ Jesus. The old has gone and the new has come.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

 

[horsecamp]

I will in most cases use Lutheran because i know others may not have the same faith as Lutherans..
AND I SURE DONT WANT TO SHOVE WHAT WE BELEIVE DOWN ANY ONES THROAT AS IF THEY BELEIVE WHAT WE DO..
who does God say these appy to? lUTHERANS THINK Context is VERY IMPORTANT
GOD doesnt say it applys to ME AS A Lutheran, REMEMBER WE ONLY CAME INTO EXISTANCE A HALF A MILLENIUM AGO..
aND God DID NOT BRING US OUT OF EGYPT THE LAND OF SLAVERY ..


sO WHAT LAWS OF THIS DECOLUGUE APPLY TO LUTHERANS?

only those God wrote in all mens hearts and restated in the New testament..


Lutherans know that the sabbath or saturday rest law is not written on all mens hearts .Hebrews 8:10. because if God did that he would have had to place a calender in their to .. so the early heathens of this world would know when and what saturday was so they could rest on it ..


tHE BIBLE ALSO SAYS the old rest law for those jews, God took out of egypt only pointed to Jesus their and our real and all sufficent rest .

also in the new testament it say not to let any one judge us over this sabbath thingy or a new moon ..

I wont get into the two uses of the law non christians unknowingly follow

the 3rd use of the law is only for christians since we are not under these laws ,,
yet use them to give thanks to jesus for saving us from these condeming laws that can only bring death ..since only Jesus perfectly obeyed them
---------------------------------------------------------------
The Ten Commandments
20 And God spoke all these words:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before[a] me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

18 When the people saw the thunder and lightning and heard the trumpet and saw the mountain in smoke, they trembled with fear. They stayed at a distance 19 and said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die.”
20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid. God has come to test you, so that the fear of God will be with you to keep you from sinning.”
21 The people remained at a distance, while Moses approached the thick darkness where God was.
Idols and Altars
22 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Tell the Israelites this: ‘You have seen for yourselves that I have spoken to you from heaven: 23 Do not make any gods to be alongside me; do not make for yourselves gods of silver or gods of gold.
24 “‘Make an altar of earth for me and sacrifice on it your burnt offerings and fellowship offerings,[b] your sheep and goats and your cattle. Wherever I cause my name to be honored, I will come to you and bless you. 25 If you make an altar of stones for me, do not build it with dressed stones, for you will defile it if you use a tool on it. 26 And do not go up to my altar on steps, lest your nakedness be exposed on it.’

 

[Raeneske]

Chapter 14

Principles of Conscience

1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

2 One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him.

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself;

8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.

9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.

11 For it is written,

35]“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,

35]And every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.

Actually this is about judgement not about just eating, so yes the days considered are in complete context. Verse 3 and 4 are key to understanding this as well as verse 13. By stating one day should be observed over another is exactly what people were doing in Paul's day, which Paul clearly states we are subject to our Master, which is Jesus Christ. If it is you are weak in faith to need to observe the Sabbath, so be it, and serve it to the Lord with all your heart. If it is I see no need for such a thing, so be it, and allow me to serve the Lord with all my heart, all in good conscience.

What many do not understand is the liberty in Christ, which is a freedom indeed. It is acceptance from God we all must seek, not acceptance from other men yet not to the fault of another man, meaning self denial is better than causing strife with your neighbor. We are free to do what we do in good conscience, not grieving the Holy Spirit. If it is we have guilt, we are sinning. If it is we doubt, we are best to avoid or observe, yet every man is not alike in their faith. This is where so many bring condemnation to others, and store wrath for themselves, for they don't want anyone doing what is not proper in their own eyes for themselves. With this said all things must align with loving God above all else and loving others as self, anything that falls short is sin. The days do not matter any more than the food.

Is is good to rest? Without question, yet fellowship with God should be continual and not only subject to one day. One can fellowship while at rest, or play, or work, no matter the day or time. Can we observe one day over another? Of course, many observe the resurrection once a year along with a plethora of other believers, many observe the birth at a certain date. But with this said we are not to pass judgement on those who choose not to observe these days just as those who decide to not observe the Sabbath.

What is the Sabbath but a sign of the Mosaic covenant between God and the sons of Israel, and thereby is of the Law. But what does Paul say about the Law?

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”—

14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Thereby it is not confidence in the flesh we must maintain, our own attempts to maintain righteousness, but confidence in Him who establishes our righteousness.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,

15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,

16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

No longer are we held to ordinances under a suzerain being vassals, rather now we have liberty to serve God rightly in Spirit. If in Spirit then in obedience to such in good conscience for love of God and others, not for righteousness sake, but again for love. Then if for love it will not fail, and righteousness will surely follow.

4You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

I understand your post, but it does not appear that this is what scripture is talking about. It is talking about doubtful disputations, but it seems to continue with the food topic all throughout the chapter. I have reason to believe, the day which they give to the Lord as a fast, is the days here mentioned in scripture.

There is no liberty if you are breaking any of the 10 Commandments. Christ sets you free from sin, not from the obediance required once we become saved individuals. If you are freed from sin, you shall be free indeed. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. So, if Christ freed us from this law (as people claim), then there could be no sin. For where there is no law, in no place could there be a transgressor. And how could Christ proclaim, "Depart from me, ye who work iniquity", if there was no more a law for those who say "Lord Lord!"

Now Love is the 10 Commandments, as Romans 13:8-10 shows. So, if you love God or your neighbour, you will be found obediant to that law, because love fulfills that law. If you love, you will not commit adultery. That's common sense. But you can no more claim to love the Lord your God, anymore than an Israelite could, if you refuse to keep the Sabbath. Is He the God of the Israelites only? No, ours also. To gentiles who become jews, would they not have found obligation to obey that law? Of course. The problem now is, using scripture out of context, to contradict the plain understanding of our neccesity to keep the 10 Commandments.

So, how can a Christian claim to love God, if they knowingly and willingly hate His law, and refuse to keep His law? I have no problem with what you said about praying, etc. everyday. But please apply that same logic to Sunday Keeping Churchs. They should pray and read everyday, yes? They should commune everyday yes? Sabbath Keepers do the same. However, they choose to spend all of the day with God, instead of a few hours. They refuse worldly pleasure, and worldly fun, and even their jobs, for the Society of God and His Son, and Holy Spirit for a full day.

Obediance to the law is a fruit of salvation. You keep the law after you're saved, not before. Attempting to keep it before is working to heaven. The ability to keep it afterwards, is a fruit Jesus shines and dwells within your heart. To become a new creature in Christ, is not the cast away that law that defines sin. It's to look at that law, realize you're a transgressor, accept Christ, and let Him work in you, as you become obediant. You work together with Christ Jesus, working out your salvation, obeying the Lord.

The law of the Lord is perfect. And if that law is perfect, then any deviation from it is sinful. And if Christ had to come down here and die for us, that is also proof that the law cannot be changed. For if it could, what need would have Christ died? But because Christ had to die, it is impossible for that law to be gone. Blessed are they which keep the faith, and the commandments (Rev 14:12, 22:14). And if you can see the immutability of 9, I urge you to see the immutability of the 4th. Applying different reasoning to the law, is the reason it is tossed away. You literally keep the other 9 commandments, correct, to the letter and spirit? Not just in letter, meaning to only do that, but be disgusting on the inside, but to also keep the spirit. So, you keep letter and spirit. Apply the same reasoning. A flower can no more break the laws of nature, than a human can break God's law without the severest consequences. And the Lord said himself, to teach others to do the commandments. Those who teach, shall be called great, those who do not, are the least of all.

 

[justaname]

I understand your post, but it does not appear that this is what scripture is talking about. It is talking about doubtful disputations, but it seems to continue with the food topic all throughout the chapter. I have reason to believe, the day which they give to the Lord as a fast, is the days here mentioned in scripture.

There is no liberty if you are breaking any of the 10 Commandments. Christ sets you free from sin, not from the obediance required once we become saved individuals. If you are freed from sin, you shall be free indeed. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. So, if Christ freed us from this law (as people claim), then there could be no sin. For where there is no law, in no place could there be a transgressor. And how could Christ proclaim, "Depart from me, ye who work iniquity", if there was no more a law for those who say "Lord Lord!"

Now Love is the 10 Commandments, as Romans 13:8-10 shows. So, if you love God or your neighbour, you will be found obediant to that law, because love fulfills that law. If you love, you will not commit adultery. That's common sense. But you can no more claim to love the Lord your God, anymore than an Israelite could, if you refuse to keep the Sabbath. Is He the God of the Israelites only? No, ours also. To gentiles who become jews, would they not have found obligation to obey that law? Of course. The problem now is, using scripture out of context, to contradict the plain understanding of our neccesity to keep the 10 Commandments.

So, how can a Christian claim to love God, if they knowingly and willingly hate His law, and refuse to keep His law? I have no problem with what you said about praying, etc. everyday. But please apply that same logic to Sunday Keeping Churchs. They should pray and read everyday, yes? They should commune everyday yes? Sabbath Keepers do the same. However, they choose to spend all of the day with God, instead of a few hours. They refuse worldly pleasure, and worldly fun, and even their jobs, for the Society of God and His Son, and Holy Spirit for a full day.

Obediance to the law is a fruit of salvation. You keep the law after you're saved, not before. Attempting to keep it before is working to heaven. The ability to keep it afterwards, is a fruit Jesus shines and dwells within your heart. To become a new creature in Christ, is not the cast away that law that defines sin. It's to look at that law, realize you're a transgressor, accept Christ, and let Him work in you, as you become obediant. You work together with Christ Jesus, working out your salvation, obeying the Lord.

The law of the Lord is perfect. And if that law is perfect, then any deviation from it is sinful. And if Christ had to come down here and die for us, that is also proof that the law cannot be changed. For if it could, what need would have Christ died? But because Christ had to die, it is impossible for that law to be gone. Blessed are they which keep the faith, and the commandments (Rev 14:12, 22:14). And if you can see the immutability of 9, I urge you to see the immutability of the 4th. Applying different reasoning to the law, is the reason it is tossed away. You literally keep the other 9 commandments, correct, to the letter and spirit? Not just in letter, meaning to only do that, but be disgusting on the inside, but to also keep the spirit. So, you keep letter and spirit. Apply the same reasoning. A flower can no more break the laws of nature, than a human can break God's law without the severest consequences. And the Lord said himself, to teach others to do the commandments. Those who teach, shall be called great, those who do not, are the least of all.

So in other words you seek to be justified by keeping the Law. Also you are judging those who do not set one day above another by stating they hate His law, but this I do not hold against you.

Colossians 2:13-16

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The word of truth speaks for itself, concentrate on substance and allow liberty to live through you. Christ rose on Sunday and Christians observe that day instead of Saturday because we are Christians not Jews except inwardly through the circumcision of the heart. It is not religious practices that make you righteous, rather Christ. It is not festivals, food, or Sabbaths that show our righteousness outwardly, rather our faith.

Habakkuk 2:4
4 “Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.

When we realize it is not man who is the judge, we honor the One who is the Judge.

Shalom

 

[williemac]

Good reply, Justaname. So far the debate has not touched on the mention of this rest by the author of Hebrews. In ch.3 and 4, we find the sabbath rest described as something that is entered into. 4:1, even states that it is entered into by a promise. This is vastly different than the fourth commandment, which calls them into a day of resting from one's work (no promise involved). So has the author of Hebrews missed the mark? I doubt it.
It becomes apparent from reading these two chapters that the fourth commandment must have been what the bible refers to as a "shadow" of things to come. There is an earthly, fleshly command to rest. But there is also a heavenly promise "of" rest.

Up to this point there are those who insist that most Christians are breaking the fourth command by going to church on sunday. However, what has worship got to do with this command? Nothing. It is about rest, not worship.For many sabbath keepers, the meaning has therefore been obscured in their making it about what day a person goes to church.
But this is not a problem for me, as I do not consider myself a breaker of the fourth command by attending church on sunday. Wo cares if I am a "sunday worshipper", as they refer it to? How dare they restrict the worship of our creator to just one day!!! I intend to worship Him every day, thank you very much!
But what is important is whether or not I have entered into "His" rest. And of course, we all have, who are part of the new covenant.

God did not go back to work on the 8th day. He finished "His" work in 6 days. So the question is...who else has finished "his" work? (4:10) Ironically, the works of the law are called just that: "works". Under the old covnenant the works of the law had a motive behind them. They were to be kept for the benefit of the one keeping them. Therefore if I was keeping the law back then, the works of the law were "my" works. Similarily, when God created the universe, those were "His" works. He did them for His own benefit. Is He working today? Yes, of course, but now, not for Himself. His works are that of loving and caring for His creation. The motive has changed. He is working for the benefit of His creation.
Therefore He is resting from "His" works. It is a permanent rest.

So, when a person leaves behind the covenant of law and enters into the new covenenant, he enters into God's rest. Our works are for a different motive. Real and genuine love is for the benefit of the one loved, not for the one doing the loving. Love does not seek its own. That is the difference between law and grace. We are no longer forced to obey Him for our own salvation or for our own well being. Those things are ours by promise. We are free from self serving motives, whether a person gets that or not.

Therefore, by virtue of having finished "our works", entering into the new covenant, His children are in permanent fulfillment of the fourth command. IT IS FINISHED!

Blessings, Howie

 

[Raeneske]

So in other words you seek to be justified by keeping the Law. Also you are judging those who do not set one day above another by stating they hate His law, but this I do not hold against you.

Colossians 2:13-16

13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—

17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

The word of truth speaks for itself, concentrate on substance and allow liberty to live through you. Christ rose on Sunday and Christians observe that day instead of Saturday because we are Christians not Jews except inwardly through the circumcision of the heart. It is not religious practices that make you righteous, rather Christ. It is not festivals, food, or Sabbaths that show our righteousness outwardly, rather our faith.

Habakkuk 2:4
4 “Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.

When we realize it is not man who is the judge, we honor the One who is the Judge.

Shalom

There may be Sabbath keepers trying to be justified by their keeping of the 10 Commandment law. However, I am not one who is trying to be justified by the keeping of the law. I also don't understand this:

If a church spends a whole day, keeping Sunday holy, resting, fellowshipping, and worshipping with each other, they are doing so because they love God. But, as soon as a Sabbath keeper keeps the 7th Day holy, we are all of a sudden trying to be justified by the law? No, it is evident, the just shall live by faith. So, why do Sabbath keepers insist on keeping the 7th Day Sabbath? Because it is like any other commandment of the Lord. We keep the Commandment, not taking His name in vain, because we love Him. No self justification.

Now, 2nd Colossians is out of context. That does not mean the 7th Day Sabbath, that refers to the commandments contained in ordinances.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Were the 10 Commandments nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not kill nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not commit adultery nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain nailed to the cross? No.

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

So, is this law contained in ordinances spiritual or carnal?

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Please read Leviticus chapter 23, and see how even Moses showed the difference between the 10 Commandment Sabbath, the sabbaths within the "law of moses" as it is called. So then, if this law is carnal, which law is spiritual?

Romans 7:12 -14 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The 10 Commandments are holy, they tell you what sin is. Not only do they tell you what sin is, they show you the need of you having a Saviour. Then, once you have the Saviour the 10 Commandments are placed within your heart. The 7th Day Sabbath is part of that 10 Commandment law. You cannot keep 9 of the 10, and toss out number 4, whether you have difficulty keeping it, or not. It is part of the 10 commandments. What happens to those who keep all nine, but refuse just one of them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Word of truth does speak for itself. However, in this discussion it is never shown how the Word of God divides the 10 Commandment law, and the law contained in ordinances. And it is evident. One is spiritual, one is carnal. One shall never change, as Jesus said, and one passed away with during the time of reformation. Not one jot or tittle of the 10 Commandment law changed. To this day, it still says to keep the Sabbath holy.

Good reply, Justaname. So far the debate has not touched on the mention of this rest by the author of Hebrews. In ch.3 and 4, we find the sabbath rest described as something that is entered into. 4:1, even states that it is entered into by a promise. This is vastly different than the fourth commandment, which calls them into a day of resting from one's work (no promise involved). So has the author of Hebrews missed the mark? I doubt it.
It becomes apparent from reading these two chapters that the fourth commandment must have been what the bible refers to as a "shadow" of things to come. There is an earthly, fleshly command to rest. But there is also a heavenly promise "of" rest.

Up to this point there are those who insist that most Christians are breaking the fourth command by going to church on sunday. However, what has worship got to do with this command? Nothing. It is about rest, not worship.For many sabbath keepers, the meaning has therefore been obscured in their making it about what day a person goes to church.
But this is not a problem for me, as I do not consider myself a breaker of the fourth command by attending church on sunday. Wo cares if I am a "sunday worshipper", as they refer it to? How dare they restrict the worship of our creator to just one day!!! I intend to worship Him every day, thank you very much!
But what is important is whether or not I have entered into "His" rest. And of course, we all have, who are part of the new covenant.

God did not go back to work on the 8th day. He finished "His" work in 6 days. So the question is...who else has finished "his" work? (4:10) Ironically, the works of the law are called just that: "works". Under the old covnenant the works of the law had a motive behind them. They were to be kept for the benefit of the one keeping them. Therefore if I was keeping the law back then, the works of the law were "my" works. Similarily, when God created the universe, those were "His" works. He did them for His own benefit. Is He working today? Yes, of course, but now, not for Himself. His works are that of loving and caring for His creation. The motive has changed. He is working for the benefit of His creation.
Therefore He is resting from "His" works. It is a permanent rest.

So, when a person leaves behind the covenant of law and enters into the new covenenant, he enters into God's rest. Our works are for a different motive. Real and genuine love is for the benefit of the one loved, not for the one doing the loving. Love does not seek its own. That is the difference between law and grace. We are no longer forced to obey Him for our own salvation or for our own well being. Those things are ours by promise. We are free from self serving motives, whether a person gets that or not.

Therefore, by virtue of having finished "our works", entering into the new covenant, His children are in permanent fulfillment of the fourth command. IT IS FINISHED!

Blessings, Howie

That is incorrect. The 7th Day Sabbath is a spiritual commandment, just like all the others.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

It is not just about resting, but keeping the day holy. It is just as spiritual as the other commandments.

Worship of the creator is not restricted to one day. When I have my computer, I sometimes go to church on Mondays and Wednesdays as well. Worship is not restricted. Sabbath Keepers just spend the whole Sabbath day with God, instead of just part of the day. We also pray, and read scripture everyday. Is this restricted worship? Negative sir. Rather, we are just obedient to the command, as any Christian can be.

So, who cares if you keep the Sabbath? God cares. If He did not, it would not have been placed within the eternal 10 Commandment law.

No one was justified by the law in the old Covenant. Read Hebrews 11, Paul goes down a whole list of people who were justified by their faith in the Redeemer to come. We now have faith in the Redeemer that came.

 

[justaname]

There may be Sabbath keepers trying to be justified by their keeping of the 10 Commandment law. However, I am not one who is trying to be justified by the keeping of the law. I also don't understand this:

If a church spends a whole day, keeping Sunday holy, resting, fellowshipping, and worshipping with each other, they are doing so because they love God. But, as soon as a Sabbath keeper keeps the 7th Day holy, we are all of a sudden trying to be justified by the law? No, it is evident, the just shall live by faith. So, why do Sabbath keepers insist on keeping the 7th Day Sabbath? Because it is like any other commandment of the Lord. We keep the Commandment, not taking His name in vain, because we love Him. No self justification.

Now, 2nd Colossians is out of context. That does not mean the 7th Day Sabbath, that refers to the commandments contained in ordinances.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Were the 10 Commandments nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not kill nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not commit adultery nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain nailed to the cross? No.

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

So, is this law contained in ordinances spiritual or carnal?

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Please read Leviticus chapter 23, and see how even Moses showed the difference between the 10 Commandment Sabbath, the sabbaths within the "law of moses" as it is called. So then, if this law is carnal, which law is spiritual?

Romans 7:12 -14 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The 10 Commandments are holy, they tell you what sin is. Not only do they tell you what sin is, they show you the need of you having a Saviour. Then, once you have the Saviour the 10 Commandments are placed within your heart. The 7th Day Sabbath is part of that 10 Commandment law. You cannot keep 9 of the 10, and toss out number 4, whether you have difficulty keeping it, or not. It is part of the 10 commandments. What happens to those who keep all nine, but refuse just one of them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Word of truth does speak for itself. However, in this discussion it is never shown how the Word of God divides the 10 Commandment law, and the law contained in ordinances. And it is evident. One is spiritual, one is carnal. One shall never change, as Jesus said, and one passed away with during the time of reformation. Not one jot or tittle of the 10 Commandment law changed. To this day, it still says to keep the Sabbath holy.



That is incorrect. The 7th Day Sabbath is a spiritual commandment, just like all the others.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

It is not just about resting, but keeping the day holy. It is just as spiritual as the other commandments.

Worship of the creator is not restricted to one day. When I have my computer, I sometimes go to church on Mondays and Wednesdays as well. Worship is not restricted. Sabbath Keepers just spend the whole Sabbath day with God, instead of just part of the day. We also pray, and read scripture everyday. Is this restricted worship? Negative sir. Rather, we are just obedient to the command, as any Christian can be.

So, who cares if you keep the Sabbath? God cares. If He did not, it would not have been placed within the eternal 10 Commandment law.

No one was justified by the law in the old Covenant. Read Hebrews 11, Paul goes down a whole list of people who were justified by their faith in the Redeemer to come. We now have faith in the Redeemer that came.

From the Jewish perspective the Law was never limited to only ten, actually there are 613 commandments. In the thought of the observance of the Sabbath that is a part of the ceremonial portion of the Law, being it is not a moral command, rather a ritual observance.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Were the 10 Commandments nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not kill nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not commit adultery nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain nailed to the cross? No.

So yes, all commandments and ordinances were nailed to the cross along with all condemnation.

Romans 8:1-4
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We as Christians are held to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, not to the Mosaic Law in any aspect. In respect to the new covenant and new standard it has been elevated in both promises and standards. Before thoughts and attitudes were not included yet now under the new covenant we are held to this higher standard, but not by our own accord, rather by the enabling power and strength of the Holy Spirit.

This text refers to all the commandments and ordinances and from your perspective we are all guilty because there is no temple sacrifice anymore. (James 2:10)
And to complete James' thought
James 2:12-13

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.


But we know this not to be true because we are no longer held to the Law because we are not to establish our own righteousness but we are made righteous through our faith and God's work in us through His Holy Spirit:

1Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

Now in accordance with the verses you say are out of context.

Sabbath means Sabbath not ordinances. Look up the greek used. Keep the context of the entire passage. The only way one can see what you are attempting to present is if you desperately and grossly remove the proper context and definition of the word.

This is taken from Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible
Sabbath šabbāṯ

The seventh day in a seven-day week, established in the OT as a day of rest. The OT records the institution of the sabbath in the laws given to Moses.


In Col. 2:16 the argument is that the sabbath (along with food and festival regulations) was a type, a shadow, of what was to come in Christ. Therefore, now that Christ has come, there is no need for the shadow. Heb. 4:9 states that the sabbath rest in some way remains. This describes a sabbath rest which is probably not the once-a-week day of rest, but a rest of heart, provided by Christ. This rest appears to be spiritual rather than temporal, but this text has caused some confusion about a post-Gospels understanding of the sabbath.

This is taken from the Lexham Bible Dictionary

Sabbath (שַׁבַּת־, shabbath-). A day of complete rest from secular work following six days of labor. Established and modeled by God.

The Letters contain two occurrences of the term “Sabbath.” In Col 2:16, Paul argues that people should not be judged based upon their observance of various ritual acts, including eating and observance of festivals and the Sabbath. He labels these as “shadows” which were fulfilled by Christ. The meaning of the passage is debated; however, the text discusses misperception that performance of ritual was a pathway to salvation (Judaizing) and asceticism. This context demonstrates that Paul is not abolishing the Sabbath concept, but instating a lack of condemnation for failing to observe an ascetical form of self-denial. He is also arguing against the idea that Sabbath observance plays a role in salvation (through works).

Hebrews 4:9 refers to a Sabbath-rest that remains in effect. The author of Hebrews anticipates an eschatological fulfillment for the people of God in the period inaugurated with the appearance of Jesus (Heb 4:3–13). The eschatological context points to a present and future reality. Hebrews 4:3 indicates that presently, people who believe are able to enter into Sabbath rest. Additionally, Heb 4:11 points to a future rest for those who are obedient. The passage emphasizes the Old Testament principles that God’s Sabbath is based on abstinence from work (Heb 4:10), rest (Heb 4:3), tied to creations (Heb 4:4), and a call for obedience (Heb 4:6).

 

[williemac]

There may be Sabbath keepers trying to be justified by their keeping of the 10 Commandment law. However, I am not one who is trying to be justified by the keeping of the law. I also don't understand this:

If a church spends a whole day, keeping Sunday holy, resting, fellowshipping, and worshipping with each other, they are doing so because they love God. But, as soon as a Sabbath keeper keeps the 7th Day holy, we are all of a sudden trying to be justified by the law? No, it is evident, the just shall live by faith. So, why do Sabbath keepers insist on keeping the 7th Day Sabbath? Because it is like any other commandment of the Lord. We keep the Commandment, not taking His name in vain, because we love Him. No self justification.

Now, 2nd Colossians is out of context. That does not mean the 7th Day Sabbath, that refers to the commandments contained in ordinances.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Were the 10 Commandments nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not kill nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not commit adultery nailed to the cross? Was thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain nailed to the cross? No.

Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

So, is this law contained in ordinances spiritual or carnal?

Hebrews 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

Please read Leviticus chapter 23, and see how even Moses showed the difference between the 10 Commandment Sabbath, the sabbaths within the "law of moses" as it is called. So then, if this law is carnal, which law is spiritual?

Romans 7:12 -14 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The 10 Commandments are holy, they tell you what sin is. Not only do they tell you what sin is, they show you the need of you having a Saviour. Then, once you have the Saviour the 10 Commandments are placed within your heart. The 7th Day Sabbath is part of that 10 Commandment law. You cannot keep 9 of the 10, and toss out number 4, whether you have difficulty keeping it, or not. It is part of the 10 commandments. What happens to those who keep all nine, but refuse just one of them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Word of truth does speak for itself. However, in this discussion it is never shown how the Word of God divides the 10 Commandment law, and the law contained in ordinances. And it is evident. One is spiritual, one is carnal. One shall never change, as Jesus said, and one passed away with during the time of reformation. Not one jot or tittle of the 10 Commandment law changed. To this day, it still says to keep the Sabbath holy.



That is incorrect. The 7th Day Sabbath is a spiritual commandment, just like all the others.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy

It is not just about resting, but keeping the day holy. It is just as spiritual as the other commandments.

Worship of the creator is not restricted to one day. When I have my computer, I sometimes go to church on Mondays and Wednesdays as well. Worship is not restricted. Sabbath Keepers just spend the whole Sabbath day with God, instead of just part of the day. We also pray, and read scripture everyday. Is this restricted worship? Negative sir. Rather, we are just obedient to the command, as any Christian can be.

So, who cares if you keep the Sabbath? God cares. If He did not, it would not have been placed within the eternal 10 Commandment law.

No one was justified by the law in the old Covenant. Read Hebrews 11, Paul goes down a whole list of people who were justified by their faith in the Redeemer to come. We now have faith in the Redeemer that came.

Obviously we are at an impass, here. I did not say that I don't keep the sabbath. What I meant in my reply was that the sabbath rest is fulfilled in me by faith. If you don't agree with me, fine. But you cannot rightly accuse other Christians of not keeping the sabbath if they genuinely believe that they are. As I said, according to the teaching of the author of Hebrews, the real sabbath rest is not something that is done, but rather something that is entered into. We who have believed do enter that rest. We who have ceased from our works have entered into HIS rest rather than our own rest. That is what is being taught in Hebrews. it is a permanent state of rest rather than a weekly event.

 

[justaname]

But we know this not to be true because we are no longer held to the Law because we are not to establish our own righteousness but we are made righteous through our faith and God's work in us through His Holy Spirit:

This is something that should have been edited. I apologize, I was writing something then changed the way I was presenting it. I do not want you to think I was applying this to the James 2:12-13 verse. Again I apologize for any confusion.

 

[Raeneske]

From the Jewish perspective the Law was never limited to only ten, actually there are 613 commandments. In the thought of the observance of the Sabbath that is a part of the ceremonial portion of the Law, being it is not a moral command, rather a ritual observance.

So yes, all commandments and ordinances were nailed to the cross along with all condemnation.

Romans 8:1-4
Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

We as Christians are held to the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, not to the Mosaic Law in any aspect. In respect to the new covenant and new standard it has been elevated in both promises and standards. Before thoughts and attitudes were not included yet now under the new covenant we are held to this higher standard, but not by our own accord, rather by the enabling power and strength of the Holy Spirit.

This text refers to all the commandments and ordinances and from your perspective we are all guilty because there is no temple sacrifice anymore. (James 2:10)
And to complete James' thought
James 2:12-13

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.


But we know this not to be true because we are no longer held to the Law because we are not to establish our own righteousness but we are made righteous through our faith and God's work in us through His Holy Spirit:

1Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

Now in accordance with the verses you say are out of context.

Sabbath means Sabbath not ordinances. Look up the greek used. Keep the context of the entire passage. The only way one can see what you are attempting to present is if you desperately and grossly remove the proper context and definition of the word.

This is taken from Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible
Sabbath šabbāṯ

The seventh day in a seven-day week, established in the OT as a day of rest. The OT records the institution of the sabbath in the laws given to Moses.


In Col. 2:16 the argument is that the sabbath (along with food and festival regulations) was a type, a shadow, of what was to come in Christ. Therefore, now that Christ has come, there is no need for the shadow. Heb. 4:9 states that the sabbath rest in some way remains. This describes a sabbath rest which is probably not the once-a-week day of rest, but a rest of heart, provided by Christ. This rest appears to be spiritual rather than temporal, but this text has caused some confusion about a post-Gospels understanding of the sabbath.

This is taken from the Lexham Bible Dictionary

Sabbath (שַׁבַּת־, shabbath-). A day of complete rest from secular work following six days of labor. Established and modeled by God.

The Letters contain two occurrences of the term “Sabbath.” In Col 2:16, Paul argues that people should not be judged based upon their observance of various ritual acts, including eating and observance of festivals and the Sabbath. He labels these as “shadows” which were fulfilled by Christ. The meaning of the passage is debated; however, the text discusses misperception that performance of ritual was a pathway to salvation (Judaizing) and asceticism. This context demonstrates that Paul is not abolishing the Sabbath concept, but instating a lack of condemnation for failing to observe an ascetical form of self-denial. He is also arguing against the idea that Sabbath observance plays a role in salvation (through works).

Hebrews 4:9 refers to a Sabbath-rest that remains in effect. The author of Hebrews anticipates an eschatological fulfillment for the people of God in the period inaugurated with the appearance of Jesus (Heb 4:3–13). The eschatological context points to a present and future reality. Hebrews 4:3 indicates that presently, people who believe are able to enter into Sabbath rest. Additionally, Heb 4:11 points to a future rest for those who are obedient. The passage emphasizes the Old Testament principles that God’s Sabbath is based on abstinence from work (Heb 4:10), rest (Heb 4:3), tied to creations (Heb 4:4), and a call for obedience (Heb 4:6).

No, the problem here is the problem commonly made. To the Jews, there may have been 613 commandments, etc. But there were always The 10 Commandments, which was entirely different from the other laws in scripture. The 10 Commandments are the moral authority. Again, the 10 Commandments are spiritual Romans 7, your other laws are considered carnal, as Hebrews 9 says, in the post I made. There is already a split in scripture between the two laws. In Leviticus chapter 23, we see that even Moses showed the difference between the 10 Commandment Sabbath, and the other ceremonial sabbaths. This is the problem, the difference between the 10 Commandments law, and the other laws, is not being clearly drawn in your posts. You are blending that which was nailed, with that which is eternal.

The Requirements of the law will be fulfilled in us, because we walk in the Spirit. Meaning, will you actually murder someone, if you are not murdering them within your heart? No, you will not murder them. You therefore have the Spirit, to help you keep the Spirit and the letter of the law. It is contradictory to claim to serve the Spirit of the law, but then turn right around and break the letter to pieces, and change jots and tittles to suit your designs. The law of God always included these spiritual portions, but carnal men could not discern that the law meant more than the letter written down. So when God said, "Keep the Sabbath", He was not telling Israel, "Actually break it, and claim everyday alike". He meant what He said. Likewise, when He said "Thou shalt not kill", he still also meant, do not kill within your heart, and have hatred and murder in your heart. Murderers shall not be allowed into the kingdom. However, as I said, man could not see past that letter. Now, man does away with the letter in entirety (attempts to anyways).

James 2:10 is about the 10 Commandments, nowhere is it close to talking about the 613 laws. You can tell that from the example given, of thou shalt not kill, and not commit adultery. Jesus specifically said Himself, that those who teach others to break that law, are called least in Heaven. The greatest, are those who teach and do them. You are supposed to teach those 10 Commandments. What James is saying, is that if you are in the business of teaching it (like some of us tend to do on this board), you should also be keeping it. Will you make mistakes? Yes. But what did Jesus say? Did he say, "When you break my law, never worry about it again", or did He say, "Go, and sin no more". And what is sin? Sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4). Those who are teaching the babes in Christ obediance, should be obediant to that law themselves. If you teach, and do not do, you become a transgressor of that law. Now, if you keep all of that law (all means all 9 commandments, again the context of scripture does not refer to the 613 Jewish commandments, but to the 10 Commandments, read before the section that you posted), and refuse to keep #4, that would make you guilty of not keeping the Commandments.

Now, does my righteousness come from faith, or from the keeping the law? Just like Israel of old who kept the commandments (those who actually did), their righteousness came by faith. It did not come by works of the law, it never did. Jesus saves all of us. The difference is, the Jews went and did sacrifice to show their faith in the Redeemer to come, and we have faith in Jesus, and pronounce it, to show we have faith in the Redeemer that did come.

I know what sabbath means. The Jews however, had other sabbaths. They did not just have one type of Sabbath. They had the 7th Day weekly Sabbath, and the annual sabbaths. Same word, but completely different usage. It's like if I have 2 apples. I can give you those apples, and one can be completely different types of apples. They still bear the name apples, but what kind each is, is different. So, the kind of Sabbaths contained in the Mosaic law, and the Seventh Day Sabbath is something that is completely different. Sabbaths? Yes. But, is the 7th Day Sabbath, the one contained in ordinances? Not a chance. It is a completely different type. Christ nailed one type to the cross. As a matter of fact, Christ nailed TYPES to the cross. The 7th Day Sabbath is not a type, which was to meet the anti-type at the cross. These are rituals.

Correction, God set the 7th Day apart for Holy use in genesis. That is what Sanctifies means. This day is not something that was nailed to the cross. This day is as eternal as the rest of the 10 Commandment law. Let's not forget, before Adam and Eve fell, this commandment was in effect. The other sabbaths were not needed until sin. Why? Because those sabbaths pointed to the cross. The 7th Day Sabbath doesn't point to the cross, but to Creation week.

 

[justaname]

Chapter 2

The Sin of Partiality

1 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.

2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,

3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,”

4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?

7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

Clearly in full context the sin is partiality. Verse 9 is connected or linked to verse 10 by the conjunction "for" which can also be translated as "because" which grammatically does not necessitate a period between the two verses. As stated in verse 8 it is the royal law, also translated law of your King, that we are to be judged by which in apportion to this context is given in (Lev 19:18) This is clearly not a part of the 10 commandments but is evidentially part of the Law in it's fullness. This simple summary given to us by our Master, expounded on by James, makes all of your emphasis on the 10 commandments moot and makes my claim about verse 10 completely true. To further expound what Jesus calls the greatest commandment is not considered as one of the ten. Deuteronomy 6:5

Now to be completely clear for arguments sake I am not advocating the idea the we should not or must not observe the Sabbath, rather I am agreeing with the Lexham Bible Dictionary "This context demonstrates that Paul is not abolishing the Sabbath concept, but instating a lack of condemnation for failing to observe an ascetical form of self-denial. He is also arguing against the idea that Sabbath observance plays a role in salvation (through works)."

The days or food do not matter rather our focus and attention to the Lord is what matters. God seeks to conform us to His image and in the words of our Savior, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."


Shalom

 

[Thegoodground]

Good reply, Justaname. So far the debate has not touched on the mention of this rest by the author of Hebrews. In ch.3 and 4, we find the sabbath rest described as something that is entered into. 4:1, even states that it is entered into by a promise. ''


Blessings, Howie

There it is...truth!

Thanks Howie - I do enjoy when the Spirit mind is presented - its is able to rise above the natural day, and the enscribe word in stone.

Its an eagles view of the Word.

TGG

 

[Raeneske]

Chapter 2

The Sin of Partiality

1 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism.

2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes,

3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, “You sit here in a good place,” and you say to the poor man, “You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool,”

4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives?

5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court?

7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called?

8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

Clearly in full context the sin is partiality. Verse 9 is connected or linked to verse 10 by the conjunction "for" which can also be translated as "because" which grammatically does not necessitate a period between the two verses. As stated in verse 8 it is the royal law, also translated law of your King, that we are to be judged by which in apportion to this context is given in (Lev 19:18) This is clearly not a part of the 10 commandments but is evidentially part of the Law in it's fullness. This simple summary given to us by our Master, expounded on by James, makes all of your emphasis on the 10 commandments moot and makes my claim about verse 10 completely true. To further expound what Jesus calls the greatest commandment is not considered as one of the ten. Deuteronomy 6:5

Now to be completely clear for arguments sake I am not advocating the idea the we should not or must not observe the Sabbath, rather I am agreeing with the Lexham Bible Dictionary "This context demonstrates that Paul is not abolishing the Sabbath concept, but instating a lack of condemnation for failing to observe an ascetical form of self-denial. He is also arguing against the idea that Sabbath observance plays a role in salvation (through works)."

The days or food do not matter rather our focus and attention to the Lord is what matters. God seeks to conform us to His image and in the words of our Savior, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."


Shalom

You missed the next part, which showed your partiality in the law. What law is it talking about? The 10 Commandments. You preach the law, but you do not keep it. Do you refuse to preach "Thou shalt not kill"? That would be ridiculous, you must preach that. You would hope it would be common sense, but then you must show the spiritual nature of that law as well. So, they will keep the letter and the spirit of the law.

If you believe salvation, or anyone believes salvation, comes through works, they are in error. I am not fighting that, that is plain. If you keep the Sabbath to get saved, you are already lost. You cannot save yourself. So why do we keep the 10 Commandments? Because we are saved. And that is why Christ enables me to keep the Commandments.

Sorry, a little fuzzy answer, I'm a little fuzzy at the moment. Let my emotions get the best of me for a little too long, and now I'm a little under the weather. Bear with me.

 

[justaname]

So which one of the ten commandments points to the sin of partiality? None.

But in Lev 19:18, which is not a part of the 10 but is apportioned to the Royal Law, which we as Christians are under, you can find it. The new covenant and new standard to which we are held are both greater in promises and convictions because it is not the letter to which we are held but the Spirit, this is the law of liberty. If the Spirit convicts you to observe the Sabbath, do it fully to the Lord, I am not going to judge you. Although the moment you begin saying everyone must abide in this practice and those who don't are not keeping the Law, I will tell you we are not held to the Law of Moses including all 10 commandments, and I will show you where you are incorrect in your assumption according to scripture. Colossians 2:16 Romans 14:5

The manner in which you misappropriate the text to suit your stance I do not adhere to neither do I condone.
If you wish to fulfill the law as the promise holds true then abide here and you need look nowhere else, this is from the mouth of our beloved Savior.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

Neither of these will you find in the 10 Commandments, yet the whole Law and Prophets depend on them. So why do we keep any part of the Law? Because by upholding these two commandments the entire law is fulfilled.

Luke 10:25-28
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”

27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”

You say you keep the 10 commandments because you are saved, I say you are not walking in the Spirit because you are not loving your neighbor as yourself by only keeping the ten. If you say you do love your neighbor as yourself then you negate your entire argument of emphasizing the ten or you make yourself to be a Judaizer but only deciding to adhere to a portion of the Law that you have decided suits you best.

You don't need 10 commandments or even 9, just 2. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. We are not held to the letter of the Law, that was nailed to the cross along with all of it's condemnation.

I pray you feel better and get a better grip on your emotions. I don't see what you presented as fuzzy, you are clear in your presentation.

In the Love of Christ again I pray you get and feel better.

 

[Raeneske]

So which one of the ten commandments points to the sin of partiality? None.

But in Lev 19:18, which is not a part of the 10 but is apportioned to the Royal Law, which we as Christians are under, you can find it. The new covenant and new standard to which we are held are both greater in promises and convictions because it is not the letter to which we are held but the Spirit, this is the law of liberty. If the Spirit convicts you to observe the Sabbath, do it fully to the Lord, I am not going to judge you. Although the moment you begin saying everyone must abide in this practice and those who don't are not keeping the Law, I will tell you we are not held to the Law of Moses including all 10 commandments, and I will show you where you are incorrect in your assumption according to scripture. Colossians 2:16 Romans 14:5

The manner in which you misappropriate the text to suit your stance I do not adhere to neither do I condone.
If you wish to fulfill the law as the promise holds true then abide here and you need look nowhere else, this is from the mouth of our beloved Savior.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.

Neither of these will you find in the 10 Commandments, yet the whole Law and Prophets depend on them. So why do we keep any part of the Law? Because by upholding these two commandments the entire law is fulfilled.

Luke 10:25-28
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?”

27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; do this and you will live.”

You say you keep the 10 commandments because you are saved, I say you are not walking in the Spirit because you are not loving your neighbor as yourself by only keeping the ten. If you say you do love your neighbor as yourself then you negate your entire argument of emphasizing the ten or you make yourself to be a Judaizer but only deciding to adhere to a portion of the Law that you have decided suits you best.

You don't need 10 commandments or even 9, just 2. The letter kills, the Spirit gives life. We are not held to the letter of the Law, that was nailed to the cross along with all of it's condemnation.

I pray you feel better and get a better grip on your emotions. I don't see what you presented as fuzzy, you are clear in your presentation.

In the Love of Christ again I pray you get and feel better.

The 10 Commandments are the absolute foundation of God's Kingdom. They were never meant to be read simply by the letter. They were meant to be understood in the Spirit, but carnal man could not understand the law that way. So Jesus literally explained, and laid it out for us, to show how the 10 Commandments were much more far reaching, than just the letter we understood. Jesus showed how thou shalt not kill, not only meant so in letter, but actually reached out to your heart as well. Was Thou shalt not kill done away with? Absolutely not. It was better explained, that man could understand how the law was truly meant to be kept. With love. Love obeys the letter and the spirit. It literally will not kill you, nor will it spiritually kill you. Will the letter kill? Certainly, if you cannot see past the letter. What does it mean to see past the letter? To see past thou shalt not kill as just a literal expectation. That literal expectation still exists, but now we understand that in the spiritual way as well.

My question is, how is it not partial to God, to choose to keep one of the Commandments, but refuse to keep the other? Like James said, If you don't commit adultery, but you do murder, are you not committing sin? Are you not being partial towards God?

You're right in stating that that commandment comes from Leviticus. Which is why the commandment is called not new, but also is called new. It was revealed in the old times. However, the meaning of it was not understood until now, the deeper meaning of it, and how it is actually bound to the 10 Commandments.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Love is fulfilling the fulfilling of the law. If you actually love someone you won't break those commandments. That, my friend, is true love. And that is understood. My problem is, those that claim we do not have to keep the 7th Day Sabbath. It doesn't make any sense. It's inconsistent with the rest of scripture. Anyone preparing to fire back an answer, don't fire it yet. Hear me out.

Do you not literally keep "Thou shalt not kill" just as your spiritually keep it as well? With Jesus in your heart, you're enabled for the outward showing, and the inward heart. Likewise, you wouldn't commit adultary outwardly correct? Likewise, Jesus helps you keep that law inwardly as well. Now you will not look upon women with lust either. You won't literally worship another God right? You also will not do it in your heart, correct? You keep the letter and the spirit of the law. Not in "the oldness of letter", meaning, not seeking only the letter, but serving in the newness of spirit. Obviously, when you keep the Spirit, you will literally be keeping the law as well. Will you really murder someone outwardly, if you refuse to hate them inwardly? Of course not! The same logic that is applied for the other 9 commandments, for some reason is not applied to the 4th Commandment. Many claim to keep the Sabbath spiritually. And that'd be understood, but how can they even claim to the spirit, if they do not keep the law at all? How many people, will fight back and forth with Sabbath keepers, on spending an entire day with the Lord? Do it because it's a commandment, because you love the Lord, that you will spend the entire day with Him. Not for merit, or salvation, but because you love the Lord.

What's more amazing, is somehow Sabbath-Keeping, has lead some to believe we are instantly working for our salvation. Again, why is not the same logic applied to the other commandments? It is simply inconsistent not to. If you try not to steal, are you really working your way to heaven? Of course not, that's silly. Yet, put the keeping of the 4th Commandment there, and somehow it's work. How is it work? How is obediance to #4 work?

We can all read, can we not? The verses used to say the Sabbath is gone, are completely out of context. Every single time, someone takes verses not referring to the 10 Commandments, and applies it to that commandment. And how is the Sabbath Commandment the shadow of the cross? Was it really instituted after the fall of man? No, it was set apart for Holy Use in Genesis. It was before man even fell. Thou shalt not kill existed before man ever fell. They clearly weren't running around doing animal sacrifices pointing to the cross before they fell, were they? No. But when were those sabbaths, holy days, made known? After the fall of man, which pointed to the cross. Thou shalt not commit adultery, Sabbath keeping, not taking the Lord's name in vain, all would have been kept for eternity. All existed before the cross. Christ said Himself not one jot or tittle should change. So, why are many jots and tittles changed from the 10 Commandments? Specifically number 4?

Thankyou for the prayers, I hope I get better as well!