And the Word was A God?

[marks]

I received a phone call from a very nice sounding lady, and spoke with her about 20 minutes or so. She wanted to share her faith with me, and after a few minutes, it seemed pretty clear she was hiding something. So I asked her to recommend a church for me, and lo and behold, she is a Jehovah's Witness.

Very nice lady! I felt kind of bad for her, and tried to go as gently as I could while I kept our focus on one question.

We know that in the New World Translation of the Bible John 1:1 is shown as, "In the beginning was the word, and the word was God, and the word was a god." And a little later we read, and the word became flesh, and lived among us.

So I asked her . . . who is the word? That's easy, it's Jesus! So then Jesus is God? "And the Word was God", No, she said, Jesus isn't God, he's the 'son of God'.

You have to understand, she said, it doesn't mean Jesus is God, the translators, they changed it! was her argument, It should say, the word was A god.

So Jesus isn't the true God? NO, Jehovah is the true God. So then Jesus is a false god? No! He's not a false God.

So then If Jesus is a god, and he is not a false god, and Jehovah is God, and that's not Jesus, then you have at least 2 gods! Do you believe in two gods? No, one God. Then this is Jesus, who is "a god".

She couldn't see it. I want over and over it several times, and just like all the other Jehovah's Witnesses I've shown this to, they cannot seem to understand it.

I don't mind using their version, or my King James, either way, the word was God, or the word was a God, and the word became flesh.

Jesus took on flesh. Jesus is that Word. Jesus is God. Or a God?

Either,

You have a True God, Jehovah, and this is also Jesus,

or,

You have a True God, Jehovah, and another True God, Jesus,

or,

You have a True God, Jehovah, and a false god, Jesus.

She just could not get her mind around that! I've seen this over and over.

I marvel that this cannot be understood!

Much love!

 

[101G]

Good point, but what get most people is the "With" in John 1:1. why? I don't know, but they automatically think or believe that it's two separate and distinct person being talked about, maybe that's the reason for the "a"god", or the "son of God" statements. people just don't compare scripture with scripture, as the Holy Ghost teach. for if they did then they would know that there is only one PERSON who is ETERNAL, and he is not a "god".

but there are many of verses, like John 1:1, which people stumble over. if they would take off their dictoral taught glassess for a second and read the scriptures for themselves with the HOLY GHOST, many problems, mysteries, hard questions and unknows would be revealed unto them. and there would be no division in the body.

but men live in FEAR, the fear is that they might be wrong in their beliefs. that's why the scriptures must speak for themselves. but men don't wan't to hear the TRUTH, the scriptures, but only what they was taught by man, and the Lord Jesus is correct in his his assessment, Matthew 15:7 "Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,"
Matthew 15:8 "This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me."
Matthew 15:9 "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

WHY? John 12:43 "For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."

PICJAG

 

[janc2]

The Word of God is not another separate person, it is everything that God speaks. Everything that comes out of God's mouth is His Word.
And it says "with" because the words that come out of God are also with him.
The words that I speak are also with me. My words reflect my mind, everything I say expresses my thoughts. I can express it by speaking but also by writing and through that they can recognize my personality, they can experience who I am.
The Son therefore did not exist before creation but only at birth, but the mind that is in him is eternal, because I believe that the Son is the biological Son of the Father, which Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe, they say the Son is a created being.

 

[Enoch111]

And the Word was A God?

In order to present the JW distortion you might want to tweak your title so that is reads: 'And the Word was "a god"?' Since that is what is found in the New World Translation of the JWs.

But we have a few here who also reject the deity of Christ, or claim that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, or some other nonsense.

 

[Enoch111]

The Word of God is not another separate person, it is everything that God speaks.

MORE FALSE DOCTRINE. Some people just never learn. Just a plain simple reading of John 1:1 shows that you are wilfully blind.

 

[tigger 2]

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, tells us:


“The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps. the men in question have failed to do this.... On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.” - Vol. 3, p. 187.


Some of these trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods include:


1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps...,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;


2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew & Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;


3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;


4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;


5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;


6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;


7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;


8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; & p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;


9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; & Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;


10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7, 1970 ed.;


11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;


12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;


13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;


14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press, 1975;


15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 & Ps. 82:6);


16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);


17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
(John 10:34-36);


18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);


19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).


20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.


21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.


22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.


23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.


24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.


25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.


26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.


27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.


28. Pastor Jon Courson, The Gospel According to John.


29. Vincent’s New Testament Word Studies, John 10:36.


30. C. J. Ellicott, John 10:34, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers.


(Also John 10:34, 35 - CEV: TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV)


And, of course the highly respected and highly popular Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/“a god” about the same time the NT was written.


And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; etc.

But there is only only one true God:

Father, .... this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:1, 3, KJV.

 

[farouk]

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, tells us:


“The reason why judges are called ‘gods’ in Ps. 82 is that they have the office of administering God’s judgment as ‘sons of the Most High’. In context of the Ps. the men in question have failed to do this.... On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.” - Vol. 3, p. 187.


Some of these trinitarian sources which admit that the Bible actually describes men who represent God (judges, Israelite kings, etc.) and God’s angels as gods include:


1. Young’s Analytical Concordance of the Bible, “Hints and Helps...,” Eerdmans, 1978 reprint;


2. Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, #430, Hebrew & Chaldee Dict., Abingdon, 1974;


3. New Bible Dictionary, p. 1133, Tyndale House Publ., 1984;


4. Today’s Dictionary of the Bible, p. 208, Bethany House Publ., 1982;


5. Hastings’ A Dictionary of the Bible, p. 217, Vol. 2;


6. The New Brown-Driver-Briggs-Gesenius Hebrew-English Lexicon, p. 43, Hendrickson publ.,1979;


7. Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, #2316 (4.), Thayer, Baker Book House, 1984 printing;


8. The International Standard Bible Encyclopaedia, p. 132, Vol. 1; & p. 1265, Vol. 2, Eerdmans, 1984;


9. The NIV Study Bible, footnotes for Ps. 45:6; Ps. 82:1, 6; & Jn 10:34; Zondervan, 1985;


10. New American Bible, St. Joseph ed., footnote for Ps. 45:7, 1970 ed.;


11. A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures, Vol. 5, pp. 188-189;


12. William G. T. Shedd, Dogmatic Theology, Vol. 1, pp. 317, 324, Nelson Publ., 1980 printing;


13. Murray J. Harris, Jesus As God, p. 202, Baker Book House, 1992;


14. William Barclay, The Gospel of John, V. 2, Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77, 78, Westminster Press, 1975;


15. The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible (John 10:34 & Ps. 82:6);


16. The Fourfold Gospel (Note for John 10:35);


17. Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible - Jamieson, Fausset, Brown
(John 10:34-36);


18. Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:6-8 and John 10:35);


19. John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible (Ps. 82:1).


20. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament ('Little Kittel'), - p. 328, Eerdmans Publishing Co., 1985.


21. The Expositor’s Greek Testament, pp. 794-795, Vol. 1, Eerdmans Publishing Co.


22. The Amplified Bible, Ps. 82:1, 6 and John 10:34, 35, Zondervan Publ., 1965.


23. Barnes' Notes on the New Testament, John 10:34, 35.


24. B. W. Johnson's People's New Testament, John 10:34-36.


25. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Zondervan, 1986, Vol. 3, p. 187.


26. Fairbairn’s Imperial Standard Bible Encyclopedia, p. 24, vol. III, Zondervan, 1957 reprint.


27. Theological Dictionary, Rahner and Vorgrimler, p. 20, Herder and Herder, 1965.


28. Pastor Jon Courson, The Gospel According to John.


29. Vincent’s New Testament Word Studies, John 10:36.


30. C. J. Ellicott, John 10:34, Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers.


(Also John 10:34, 35 - CEV: TEV; GodsWord; The Message; NLT; NIRV)


And, of course the highly respected and highly popular Jewish writer, Philo, had the same understanding for “God”/“a god” about the same time the NT was written.


And the earliest Christians like the highly respected NT scholar Origen and others - - including Tertullian; Justin Martyr; Hippolytus; Clement of Alexandria; Theophilus; etc.

But there is only only one true God:

Father, .... this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. John 17:1, 3, KJV.

The authors of most of those sources, however, would likely not have denied that the Lord Jesus is fully and unambiguously God, for which there is abundant Biblical evidence.

 

[Enoch111]

On the other hand, Jesus fulfilled the role of a true judge as a ‘god’ and ‘son of the Most High’.”

This is more nonsense from one who rejects the deity of Christ. Probably a JW.

The Hebrew word "elohim" can mean "mighty one" and can apply to (a) high ranking officials such as judges in Israel, (b) false gods, and (c) the true God.

The KJV translates Strong's H430 [elohim] in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x),judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x)

And the true God (the Father) calls the Son true God (Heb 1:8,9).

 

[mjrhealth]

MORE FALSE DOCTRINE. Some people just never learn. Just a plain simple reading of John 1:1 shows that you are wilfully blind.

See you call him blind yet you too are blind, how is it that one blind man can call another man blind. You read the bible and think you have all the answers, and you will fight over it till you go to the one who is the truth, but still men refuse Him.

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Go argue it out with Jesus, if you are wiling to face the truth.

Joh_8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: If Christ cannot Honour Himself, and EH is the reflection of God, how than can God honour Himself, you all make God and Christ into deceivers and Hypocrites.

 

[marks]

In order to present the JW distortion you might want to tweak your title so that is reads: 'And the Word was "a god"?' Since that is what is found in the New World Translation of the JWs.

But we have a few here who also reject the deity of Christ, or claim that Jesus is the Holy Spirit, or some other nonsense.

Hi Enoch,

You have the heart of an editor!



I was more thinking along the lines of that there are not two "True Gods".

Much love!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Ps 82:6 . . I myself have said: you are gods, and all of you are sons of the
Most High.

I noticed some time ago that the grammatical tense of "have said" is past
tense. So I got to thinking: when was it that God said that people are gods,
and when was it that He said all are sons of the Most High?

Well; I suggest the very beginning.

● Gen 1:26-27 . . And God went on to say: Let us make man in our image,
according to our likeness. And God proceeded to create the man in his
image, in God’s image he created him

That same language appears again at Gen 5:3 where Adam begot a son in
his image and likeness. So in my estimation, humanity's image and likeness
of God indicates that God intended for humans to be His kin (a.k.a. sons of
the Most High) not biologically of course, but legally, i.e. adoption.

And there's this:

● Gen 3:22 . . Jehovah God went on to say: Here the man has become like
one of us in knowing good and bad

That's when it was announced that people are gods.

People aren't actually divine though because a true god is immortal.

● Ps 82:7 . . Surely you will die just as men do; and like any one of the
princes you will fall
_