ARE DISASTERS A JUDGEMENT OF GOD?

[Doug]

[Luke 13:1 KJV] "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices."
[Luke 13:2 KJV] "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?"
[Luke 13:3 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
[Luke 13:4 KJV] "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?"
[Luke 13:5 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

In the past I have heard some high profile pastors say that when a natural disaster occurred in some cities, it was because of the wickedness found in them. If you think about this passage i would say this condemnation is questionable. The disasters in this passage were not because they were the most wicked of sinners.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

[Luke 13:1 KJV] "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices."
[Luke 13:2 KJV] "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?"
[Luke 13:3 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
[Luke 13:4 KJV] "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?"
[Luke 13:5 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

In the past I have heard some high profile pastors say that when a natural disaster occurred in some cities, it was because of the wickedness found in them. If you think about this passage i would say this condemnation is questionable. The disasters in this passage were not because they were the most wicked of sinners.

I agree with those pastors. For instance, 9/11. New York elected Hilary Clinton, Senator. The judgment would have been over abortion.

 

[Doug]

I agree with those pastors. For instance, 9/11. New York elected Hilary Clinton, Senator. The judgment would have been over abortion.

But the "innocent" died as well

 

[1stCenturyLady]

But the "innocent" died as well

The state voted her into office.

 

[Doug]

The state voted her into office.

I am not willing to go in this direction

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I am not willing to go in this direction

That's fine.

 

[Jay Ross]

But the "innocent" died as well

All of us at some time in our lives give silent assent to secular laws that are past and as such we are just as guilty of the same sin as those who had pushed for that law to become law.

 

[XtraPercept]

Who created the world?
Who hung the stars?
Who draws the sun across the sky?

so...

Who controls the weather?

People today sorely overestimate the power of men.

We only see what we are permitted; or do you control your own awareness?

Do you see a car, or do you see a 2014 Toyota Corolla S with a 6-speed stick-shift and the premium OEM wheels?

I like to seek the latter.

 

[XtraPercept]

Fun fact: the Corolla is the best-selling car in the world by name, having sold in the vicinity of 50 million since it's introduction in 1966.

If you are looking for the best selling car by model with the stipulation being the single best selling design by concept, that title would fall to the original Volkswagen Beetle, having sold about half as many as the Corolla at present but with far fewer changes to the core idea from start to finish.

I like cars. But I love the Word.

 

[GodsGrace]

[Luke 13:1 KJV] "There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices."
[Luke 13:2 KJV] "And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?"
[Luke 13:3 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
[Luke 13:4 KJV] "Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?"
[Luke 13:5 KJV] "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

In the past I have heard some high profile pastors say that when a natural disaster occurred in some cities, it was because of the wickedness found in them. If you think about this passage i would say this condemnation is questionable. The disasters in this passage were not because they were the most wicked of sinners.

Hi Doug,

There are instances in the bible that state that God did the destroying...
for instance The Flood or Sodom.

However, God is not the creator of destruction or evil.
If so we'd be serving an evil God that goes against His very own teaching of love and loving our neighbor.
He would be denying His very own nature.


1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.


Natural disasters happen because the sin nature has affected everything:
OURSELF
OTHERS
OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
NATURE

This is taught in this scripture:

Romans 8:19-21
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

 

[shepherdsword]

Am 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The righteous can get caught up in it as well:

Eze 21:4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:

 

[GodsGrace]

Am 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?

The righteous can get caught up in it as well:

Eze 21:4 Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:

You believe God does evil?

 

[shepherdsword]

You believe God does evil?

"Evil" in this context is "calamity". I think the scripture shows that God does bring judgement in the form of calamity and natural disasters . Take Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah for example.

 

[GodsGrace]

"Evil" in this context is "calamity". I think the scripture shows that God does bring judgement in the form of calamity and natural disasters . Take Noah's flood and Sodom and Gomorrah for example.

I did mention the flood and Sodom.
Surely God can do what He wishes to do.

The question is:
Will God cause a tidal wave that is going to kill hundreds or thousands?
Does God cause hurricanes that harm or kill persons and destroy their homes?

God is what He IS.
John tells us that God IS love.
It's not that God HAS love...He is love.
You must know about divine simplicity...
what God is, He is fully.

As to calamity....
Isaiah 45 I think....

Calamity happens if God WITHDRAWS Himself from a situation.
This is different than God CAUSING the situation.

The same as God allowing evil but not causing it.
John said that in God there is no darkness.


What do you make of Romans 8:19-21 which I had posted?

The sin nature....Adam's fall...has affected everything.


Romans 8:19-21
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

 

[Doug]

here are instances in the bible that state that God did the destroying...
for instance The Flood or Sodom.

Yes and maybe people who say God brings disasters are basing it on how he judged before this dispensation. He will bring judgement on the earth in the tribulation

 

[shepherdsword]

I did mention the flood and Sodom.
Surely God can do what He wishes to do.

The question is:
Will God cause a tidal wave that is going to kill hundreds or thousands?
Does God cause hurricanes that harm or kill persons and destroy their homes?

God is what He IS.
John tells us that God IS love.
It's not that God HAS love...He is love.
You must know about divine simplicity...
what God is, He is fully.

As to calamity....
Isaiah 45 I think....

Calamity happens if God WITHDRAWS Himself from a situation.
This is different than God CAUSING the situation.

The same as God allowing evil but not causing it.
John said that in God there is no darkness.


What do you make of Romans 8:19-21 which I had posted?

The sin nature....Adam's fall...has affected everything.


Romans 8:19-21
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

God destroyed every living soul except for 8 during the Flood. He didn't "withdraw" He caused it.

Ge 6:7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

It's not a point worth debating anymore to me. Receive it or not, but be sure to read the book of revelation about the judgements he pours out.

 

[Doug]

Hi Doug,

There are instances in the bible that state that God did the destroying...
for instance The Flood or Sodom.

However, God is not the creator of destruction or evil.
If so we'd be serving an evil God that goes against His very own teaching of love and loving our neighbor.
He would be denying His very own nature.


1 John 1:5
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.


Natural disasters happen because the sin nature has affected everything:
OURSELF
OTHERS
OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
NATURE

This is taught in this scripture:

Romans 8:19-21
19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Another thing to consider is Job. God allowed Satan to test Job and Job endured calamities

[Job 1:12 KJV] "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."
[Job 1:15 KJV] "And the Sabeans fell [upon them], and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."
[Job 1:16 KJV] "While he [was] yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."
[Job 1:17 KJV] "While he [was] yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."
[Job 1:19 KJV] "And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee."

 

[Doug]

God destroyed every living soul except for 8 during the Flood. He didn't "withdraw" He caused it.

Ge 6:7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

It's not a point worth debating anymore to me. Receive it or not, but be sure to read the book of revelation about the judgements he pours out.

I dont want to dive too deep either, but God deals with humankind differently in different dispensations. We are in the dispensation of grace in which maybe he isnt bringing judgement. The tribulation is a different dispensation in which God judges the earth

 

[XtraPercept]

I dont want to dive too deep

I would heartily encourage you to do so.

The pressure down here holds me together.

At the surface, I feel apt to burst for the vacuousness.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes and maybe people who say God brings disasters are basing it on how he judged before this dispensation. He will bring judgement on the earth in the tribulation

I don't believe in the dispensational system, but the end will come.