No thank you. I'm not interested in a discussion centered around made up phrases that aren't in Scripture.
Avoiding : The Cults.. #2 : CALVINISM -"TULIP"
- Thread starter Behold
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Amen, and He draws ALL MEN unto Himself, because of what Christ did on the cross.
John 12:32
[32]And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
He calls to everyone. Those who actually respond to Him with faith and repentance .. those are the "chosen."
Matthew 22:14
[14]For many are called, but few are chosen.
Dear TLHKAJ,
You said:
He calls to everyone. Those who actually respond to Him with faith and repentance .. those are the "chosen."
No, Christ does not call everyone in this age. And no, those who respond to Christ with faith and repentance are not necessarily the "chosen".
The "chosen" are those who are given both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. They are "few" in number.
The "many" who are called to be saints have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit. With only the Early Rain of the Spirit, they are not saints yet. But out of that group of "many" who are "called to be saints, a "few" have been "chosen" to actually become saints before they die. For them, Christ will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit, followed by His judgment. This is conversion.
Look at how Paul addresses his letters to the churches that he started:
Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, CALLED TO BE SAINTS: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, CALLED TO BE SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Scripture says that "many" are called to be saints. For a person to be "called", Christ must come to them and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit. With the Early Rain, they will have a measure of faith and will call Jesus "Lord". That is what it means to be "called".
In this present age, MOST people are not called to be saints. If all mankind were being called in this age, everyone would eventually repent and have a measure of faith before they die. This would happen only because of Christ's spiritual work that He does within them when He gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. After Christ does this work, everyone would accept Christ as their Lord and would no longer call Jesus "accursed":
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
It is ONLY after Christ gives the Early Rain of the Spirit to a person that they are "called to be saints". A person who is "called" will then enter the church. If Christ does not come to a person and give them the Early Rain of the Spirit, all the preaching in the world is not going to change their rejection of Christ.
Why? Because of what these verses teach:
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
During Christ's ministry, many of the Jews received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They are the ones who recognized that Jesus was the Christ just as Peter recognized Him in the verses below:
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
"Flesh and blood" (mankind's carnality) did not reveal the truth that Jesus was the Christ to Peter. The truth that Peter received came from the Father whose Spirit (the Early Rain) came into Peter and opened his eyes. Without the Spirit, no one can receive the truth about Christ.
Mankind is completely at the mercy of Christ to come and save them. Christ is the Savior and He does all the work. Mankind has nothing that they can contribute toward their own salvation. If mankind did, it would be a "work" and scripture clearly says that man's "works" play no part in mankind's salvation.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, NOT OF WORKS, but of him that calleth.
Joe
Last edited:
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Tulip does not deny John 3:16, that is simply a lie!
God does not pre choose anyone to hell- all are already destined, not predestined) due to the fall as is clearly written.
God does not "randomly save" as you foolishly declare, He chooses according to His will.
YOu have a serious conundrum. If you believe god is omniscient, then you show God willingly has allowed generations of peoples on many continents no chance to get saved! I have missioned toChina twice and there are hundreds of millions who have never heard the name Jesus! They are incapable of being born again for they do not even know the name of the Savior.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
folks miss that . but notice what JESUS specifically said about THE END .
HE said , THIS GOSPEL MUST FIRST BE PUBLISHED IN ALL , ALL NATIONS , THEN COMETH THE END .
IT WAS GODS DESIRE that all be saved , but many WILL NOT .
HOW OFTEN I WOULD HAVE GATHERED YOU as a loving mama hen her own chicks
ONLY , well calvin would say JESUS SAID , ONLY YE WERE PREDTERMINED TO HELL
BUT THAT AINT WHAT JESUS SAID , HE SAID ONLY YE , as IN YE WOULD NOT . exactly sister .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And the gosple must FIRST be published in ALL nations , THEN COMETH THE END .
sounds to me like all had a chance .
And as far as millions not hearing it , IN THIS DAY and this wild wild web and info world
MANY HAVE ALREADY HEARD and yet STILL DENY . the number who have not heard
growth quite smaller every day and hour . THE GOSPEL
is now , however , UNDER DIRECT ATTACK and ASSUALT , BY MANY WTHIIN CHRISTENDOM ITSELF .
I need to hear you say , I , fill in your name , REJECT THE POPES ALL INCLUSIVE MESSAGE
the abraham peace accords , the religious tolerance act the inclusive false love co exist crap .
I , say your name , BELEIVE IN THE DIRE NECESSITY TO EVEN PREACH , SPEAK the ONE TRUE LIFE SAVING
GOSPEL of BELIEVE YE IN JESUS CHRIST to all . I , fill in your name , BELIEVE ALL OTHER RELIGOINS
to be the work and working of satan and that the ONLY WAY THEY CAN BE SET FREE
from the power of darkness and of satan IS BY FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
repeat after me . I , fill in your name , declare that no man is good and thus THAT MEANS ALL NEED TO REPENT TO BELEIVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . I , fill in your name , wont be buying into this concept that there are many good people in every religoin
who serve GOD in their own way . CAUSE A , THEY DENY JESUS CHRIST
and B , THERE AINT ANYONE GOOD RONALD .
SO GUESS what TIME IT IS . JESUS THE CHRIST PREACHING TIME and please understand
WHY I WILL EXPOSE THIS HERESAY CRAP THEY ALL TRY AND CALL LOVE TODAY .
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
According to believing groups who do extensive research like, unreached peoples, new tribes mission, et. al close to 3.5 billion people on earth have never heard the name Jesus (as Savior) even once. That is no small number of people who have no chance at salvation as of now.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
I don't get your point,
I agree with your fill in the blanks so what is the point?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
i was just reminding you not to heed this crap that the other religoins serve the same GOD we do
cause it be a lie .
HECK if we wanna keep it real , WE ALL SERVED SATAN ONCE .
THERE WAS AND IS ONLY ONE who can set one free FROM THE POWER of satan . IF WE READ IN ACTS
we find this out . ITS JESUS THE CHRIST . so no muslim or any other religoin even serves GOD , let alone knows HIM .
IF even the jews who claimed moses as do the muslims
IF EVEN THE JEWS who cliamed abraham as do the muslims
WERE TOLD YOU OF YOUR PAPPY THE DEVIL . GUESS what , THE MUSLISM DONT GET A PASS EITHER
nor do any other religoin . THOSE WHO ARE OF GOD , take note , WHO ARE OF GOD
will hear our gospel message , but those who are not , WONT and WILL NOT REPENT TO BELEIVE .
and that is a fact . THUS , guess what the abraham peace accords IS A LIE
and the religious tolernace act IS A TRAP TOO . you need to read it .
IT WILL HAVE THE CHURCH TO FIND COMMON GROUND WITH ALL RELIGOINS .
THAT IS TOTAL BAD NEWS . the gospel will be silenced by this false love we are one move .
THAT ALL them leaders i see in the political realm , ARE UNDER IT EVEN NOW as we speak .
SOME might be worse than others , BUT ALL ARE UNDER ITS INFLUENCE and all
in part do the work of the dragon now . course they dont realize they do , THEY THINK ITS GOD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
THIS GOSPEL WILL BE PUSHBLISHED AMONG ALL NATIONS , THEN COMETH THE END . i also highly highly doubt
three point five BILLION have not heard it . we live in a very informative computer age now .
THOUGH of course not all have .
Its not the ones who never heard it i worry about , ITS THOSE WHO DID and rejected it , I WOULD WORRY ABOUT .
MANY , so very many have and yet REFUSE TO REPENT TO BELEIVE . OH DEAR THEY GONNA REAP TOTAL DESTRUCTION
on the day of the LORD too . Bettter we stick to PREACHING THE ONLY HOPE THERE IS
rather than doing as many who offer up a false love and a false hope to the world . CAUSE I KNOW THEY IS GONNA BE DAMNED WORSE than others . THEY TAUGHT A LIE and USED JESUS NAME TO DO IT . HOW MUCH WORSE a punishemtn for those awaits .
Dear Ronald Nolette,
I gave you a "like" on your post. However, I will say that God loves all mankind and because of such, He will save all mankind. Those who have been chosen for salvation in this age are only the first fruits of His harvest. The great harvest of mankind occurs at year's end:
Exo 23:16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field.
Christ is a good farmer and will not leave any of His crop to die in the field. He will bring in the full harvest of mankind just as He was commissioned to do by His Father.
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Joe
Where is your faith?
Didn't God put Jonah in the Big Fish, so that Nineveh could be helped?
Did God Create Adam from dirt, and Eve from Adam, and You from your parents, and Jesus inside a Virgin?
Where is your faith?
Listen, God is not restricted to Cable TV, and Internet, and Cell phones and your lack of faith... @Ronald Nolette .
You can BELIEVE THAT as that is FACT.
God will reach the lost, as with God "all things are possible".
Have a little Faith, and try not to "pre-destine" 3 billion people into Hell.
Gotta watch that TULIP nonsense...., as it'll cause you to believe what isn't true., as its designed to do...
Dear amigo de christo,
This scripture is written in the spiritual language of Christ:
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Your understanding of it is carnal and not spiritual.
The phrase "this gospel of the kingdom" is same "another gospel" that Paul mentions below:
2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
When the verse says that this false gospel is "preached in all the world", it is saying that it has been fully accepted by the believer; making them apostate. The "nations" represent the beliefs of the person. This is another way of saying what Christ taught in Mat 12:43-45 when the believer is made "worse than the first".
If an apostate believer is one of the Elect, then this is a "sign of the times" that Christ is about to return to the Elect believer and convert them ("then shall the end come"). The "end" is conversion because that is when the child of the devil dies and the new child of God is born.
Paul said this about the end of the ages:
1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.
The "ends of the ages" come upon the Elect when they are converted. All end-time prophecy is teaching about conversion and not about some false world-wide events that only happen at the literal end of this age.
If a person is one of the Elect, Christ will come "quickly" to them after they have received the Early Rain of the Spirit. When Christ comes, He will bring salvation (conversion) to them:
That is why Paul said this:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Joe
Amazing ....God brought this to my mind yesterday as I was just doing things around the house, thinking about this subject.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
He is also the God of "WRATH," and as a Potter, He can mold anyone to His own liking.
I guess you've never read Luke 12:50-56. Please read them verses.
I don't believe Calvinists and TULIP denied John 3:16 that is, if YOU truly have the correct understanding of John 3:16. This is the most read verse in the world and also the least misunderstood verse.
I'd like to hear your version, evangelist. What? Did you not say you are an evangelist? Lol.
In eternity past before the foundation of the world, God sent His only Son on earth to redeem the sins of all those that the Father had elected/predestined to salvation. (Matthew 1:21).
God DID NOT allow people the choice to receive His Son or not, or He will only defeat His own purpose.
How many times do I have to say that a spiritually dead person will NEVER call nor BELIEVE on the name of Jesus. PLUS, "As it is written there's NONE righteous no, not one, there's NONE that seeks after God, No, not one." (No Free Will!!!)
To God Be The Glory
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
The co-creator idea is that which insists humans need assist God in their receiving his salvation. Not uncommon is the affiliate teaching that asserts we can do something to be stripped of that salvation.
It is the "I" principle. Which is in direct contradiction to the I AM Principal.
Matthew 1
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
22 And all this was done that it might be fulfilled, which is spoken of the Lord by the Prophet, saying,
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is by interpretation, God with us.
Dan Clarkston
Active Member
WHY did Jesus teach in Mark 4:13-20 that God's Word (imperishable seed) could be choked out of one's life and they become unfruitful???
Did Jesus teach error???
Mark 4:13-20
And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?
The sower soweth the word.
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.
And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness;
And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.
And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
- Status
Similar threads
