BABYLON SCAMYLON

[Jay Ross]

There are events in the making globally behind the scenes that we are well advised to be prepared for. Events that will divide the human race into two groups. Those who are on God's side and those who are not.
As with the parable of the ten virgins, some who thought they were ready for the bridegroom were not. It behooves us all to have oil lest we find ourselves knocking on the door and calling, 'open to us' only to hear the answer, where are you from, I don't know you.

Yes so true, but people generally want to know when they have to be prepared for this event so that they are not left behind so to speak.

 

[amadeus]

There are events in the making globally behind the scenes that we are well advised to be prepared for. Events that will divide the human race into two groups. Those who are on God's side and those who are not.
As with the parable of the ten virgins, some who thought they were ready for the bridegroom were not. It behooves us all to have oil lest we find ourselves knocking on the door and calling, 'open to us' only to hear the answer, where are you from, I don't know you.

It behooves us to have oil, but the oil is not so hard to find as that, is it? What of the poor illiterate who cannot not make out all of a man's lengthy writings? How about this...?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Don't you believe that if a man can simply follow Jesus words in those few words I quoted above, he will be able to rest always with God? Jesus was surely telling it as it is?

If a man is able to read lengthy writings, would he not be better advised to read the scriptures themselves than to indulge himself in the writings of every one who comes along saying he has the truth?

"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Matt 54:23-24

 

[quietthinker]

who are the virgins? what is the oil? and who are they without the spare oil?

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Funny perhaps, but I still have not yet read what he has posted. ...

Additional:

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX - http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

Pope Pius IX, the Syllabus of Errors (it is "error" to teach any of the following):

"... 20. The ecclesiastical power ought not to exercise its authority without the permission and assent of the civil government. -- Allocution "Meminit unusquisque," Sept. 30, 1861. ..."

"... 24. The Church has not the power of using force, nor has she any temporal power, direct or indirect. -- Apostolic Letter "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851. ..."

"... 27. The sacred ministers of the Church and the Roman pontiff are to be absolutely excluded from every charge and dominion over temporal affairs. -- Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862. ..."

"... 54. Kings and princes are not only exempt from the jurisdiction of the Church, but are superior to the Church in deciding questions of jurisdiction. -- Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851. …"

"... 55. The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. …"

"... 75. The children of the Christian and Catholic Church are divided amongst themselves about the compatibility of the temporal with the spiritual power. -- "Ad Apostolicae," Aug. 22, 1851. …"

"... 76. The abolition of the temporal power of which the Apostolic See is possessed would contribute in the greatest degree to the liberty and prosperity of the Church. -- Allocutions "Quibus quantisque," April 20, 1849, "Si semper antea," May 20, 1850. ..."

"... 77. In the present day it is no longer expedient that the Catholic religion should be held as the only religion of the State, to the exclusion of all other forms of worship. -- Allocution "Nemo vestrum," July 26, 1855. ..."

"... 78. Hence it has been wisely decided by law, in some Catholic countries, that persons coming to reside therein shall enjoy the public exercise of their own peculiar worship. -- Allocution "Acerbissimum," Sept. 27, 1852. ..."
​

These are still the present doctrinal positions of Roman Catholicism as given in the negative.

L'Osservatore Romano - the Jesuit public organ - http://www.vatican.va/news_services/or/or_quo/interviste/2010/202q08a1.html

[Italian Original]

" Il 3 settembre di dieci anni fa la beatificazione di Pio IX e di Giovanni XXIII
Fede e ragione nel pontificato di Mastai Ferretti

di Francesco M. Valiante

Semplificazioni e luoghi comuni creano miti duri a morire, anche nella storia della Chiesa. È il caso di certi cliché applicati alla figura di Pio IX, il Pontefice del Sillabo e della questione romana, del dogma dell'Immacolata e del concilio Vaticano I, pastore di solida spiritualità ma anche uomo di governo, considerato ora liberale e riformatore, ora intransigente e antimoderno. Ma chi fu davvero Papa Mastai Ferretti? Monsignor Walter Brandmüller non ha dubbi: "Il suo - afferma - è stato un pontificato essenzialmente religioso e come tale va giudicato". Parziali e, dunque, inattendibili le interpretazioni ideologiche o i bilanci politici del pontificato di Pio IX. Che il prelato tedesco, professore di storia della Chiesa medievale e moderna all'università di Augusta (1970-1997) e presidente del Pontificio Comitato di Scienze Storiche dal 1998 al 2009, invita a rileggere a partire da due aspetti sorprendentemente moderni e vicini alla sensibilità del suo attuale successore Benedetto XVI: l'apertura al dialogo tra fede e ragione, e l'attenzione alla dimensione soprannaturale della vita del cristiano. In questa intervista al nostro giornale monsignor Brandmüller ricorda la figura di Giovanni Maria Mastai Ferretti a dieci anni dalla beatificazione. E parla di un pontificato, il più lungo (1846-1878) della storia della Chiesa tra i successori di san Pietro, da rivalutare e approfondire "con gli occhi dello storico e del teologo". Non omettendo una tirata d'orecchie a chi accusa di oscurantismo le posizioni del Syllabus errorum del 1864, magari senza nemmeno averne letto il testo. "Io non conosco - sentenzia - nessuna affermazione del Sillabo che contraddica apertamente il concilio Vaticano II". ...

... Io non conosco nessuna affermazione del Sillabo che contraddica il concilio Vaticano II. ...

(©L'Osservatore Romano 3 settembre 2010)" ​

[English Translated]

"On September 3, a decade ago the beatification of Pius IX and John XXIII
Faith and Reason in Pope Mastai Ferretti

Francis M. Valiante

Simplifications and clichés create myths [that] die hard, even in the history of the Church. This is the case of certain clichés applied to the figure of Pius IX, the Pope of the Syllabus and the Roman question, the dogma of the Immaculate Conception and the First Vatican Council, the pastor of solid spirituality but also a man of government, and is now considered liberal reformer, now intransigent and anti-modern. But who was really Pope Mastai Ferretti? Monsignor Walter Brandmüller has no doubts: "His - he says - was an essentially religious pontificate and as such should be judged." Partial and, therefore, unreliable interpretations ideological or political balance of the pontificate of Pius IX. That the German prelate, professor of church history at the University of medieval and early modern Augsburg (1970-1997) and president of the Pontifical Committee for Historical Sciences from 1998 to 2009, invites you to read from two aspects surprisingly modern and close to the sensitivity its current successor, Benedict XVI: opening the dialogue between faith and reason, and attention to the supernatural dimension of Christian life. In this interview with our newspaper Brandmüller recalls the figure of Monsignor Giovanni Maria Mastai Ferretti ten years after his beatification. It speaks of a pontificate, the longest (1846-1878) in the history of the Church among the successors of St. Peter, to re-evaluate and deepen "with the eyes of the historian and theologian." Not omitting a tug on the ears for those accused of obscurantism positions [on the] Syllabus of Errors of 1864, perhaps without even having read the text. "I do not know - sentences - no statement of the Syllabus openly to contradict the Second Vatican Council."

... I do not know any of the Syllabus statement that contradicts the Second Vatican Council. ...

(© L'Osservatore Romano, September 3, 2010)"​

In case anyone forgot what that said in so short a time:

https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/babylon-scamylon.26226/page-8#post-418959

 

[amadeus]

These are still the present doctrinal positions of Roman Catholicism as given in the negative.

(©L'Osservatore Romano 3 settembre 2010)" ​

[English Translated]

"On September 3, a decade ago the beatification of Pius IX and John XXIII
Faith and Reason in Pope Mastai Ferretti
"Not omitting a tug on the ears for those accused of obscurantism positions [on the] Syllabus of Errors of 1864, perhaps without even having read the text. "I do not know - sentences - no statement of the Syllabus openly to contradict the Second Vatican Council."

... I do not know any of the Syllabus statement that contradicts the Second Vatican Council. ...

(© L'Osservatore Romano, September 3, 2010)"​

In case anyone forgot what that said in so short a time:

Similarly, consider:

Amore et studio elucidande veritas hec subscripta disputabuntur Wittenberge, Presidente R.P. Martino Lutter, Artium et S. Theologie Magistro eiusdemque ibidem lectore Ordinario. Quare petit, ut qui non possunt verbis presentes nobiscum disceptare agant id literis absentes. In nomine domini nostri Hiesu Christi. Amen.

1. Dominus et magister noster Iesus Christus dicendo ,Penitentiam agite etc.' omnem vitam fidelium penitentiam esse voluit.
2. Quod verbum de penitentia sacramentali (id est confessionis et stisfactionis, que sacerdotum ministerio celebratur) non potest intelligi.
3. Non tamen solam intendit interiorem, immo interior nulla est, nisi foris operetur varias carnis mortificationes.
4. Manet itaque pena, donec manet odium sui (id est penitentia vera intus), scilicet usque ad introitum regni celorum.
5. Papa non vult nec potest ullas penas remittere preter eas, quas arbitrio vel suo vel canonum imposuit.
6. Papa non potest remittere ullam culpam nisi declarando et approbando remissam a deo Aut certe remittendo casus reservatos sibi, quibus contemptis culpa prorsus remaneret.
7. Nulli prorsus remittit deus culpam, quin simul eum subiiciat humiliatum in omnibus sácerdoti suo vicario.
8. Canones penitentiales solum viventibus sunt impositi, nihilque morituris eosdem debet imponi.
9. Inde bene nobis facit spiritussanctus in papa excipiendo in suis decretis semper articulum motris et necessitatis.
10. Indocte et male faciunt sacerdotes ii, qui morituris penitentias canonicias in purgatorium reservant.
11. Zizania illa de mutanda pena Canonica in penam purgatorii videntur certe dormientibus episcopis seminata.
12. Olim pene canonice non post, sed ante absolutionem imponebantur tanquam tentamenta vere contritionis.
13. Morituri per mortem omnia solvunt et legibus canonum morituri iam sunt, habentes irue earum relaxationem.
14. Imperfecta sanitas seu charitas morituri necessario secum fert magnum timorem, tantoque maiorem, quanto minor ferit ipsa.
15. Hic timor et horror satis est se solo (ut alia taceam) facere penem purgatorii, cum sit proximus desperationis horrori.
16. Videntur infernus, purgatorium, celum differre, sicut desperatio probe deperatio, decuritas differunt.
17. Necassarium videtur animabus in purgatorio sciut minui horrorem, ita ugeri charitatem.
18. Nec probatum vidertur ullis aut rationibus aut scripturis, quod sint statum meriti seu augende charitatis.
19. Nec hoc probatum esse videtur, quod sint de sua betitudine certe et secure, saltem, licet nos certissimi simus.
20. Igitur papa per remissionem plenariam omnium penarum non simpliciter omnium intelligit, sed a seipso tantummodo imposarium.
21. Errant itaque indulgentiarum predicatres ii, qui dicunt per pape indulgentias hominem ab omni pena solvi et salvari.
22. Quin nullam remittit animabus in purgatorio, quam in hac vita debuissent secundum Canones solvere.
23. Si remissio ulla omnium omnino perarum potest alicui dari, certum est eam non nisi perfectissimis, i.e. paucissimis.
24. Falli ob id necesse est maiorem partem populi per indifferentem illam et magnificam pene solute promissionem.
25. Qualem potestatem habet papa in purgatorium generaliter, talem habet quilibet Episcorpus et Curatus in sua diocesi et parachia specialiter.
26. Optime facit papa, quod non potestate clavis (quam nullam habet) sed per modum suffragii dat animabus remissionem.
27. Hominem predicant, qui statim ut iactus nummus in cistam tinnierit evolare dicunt animam.
28. Certum est, nummo in cistam tinniente augeri questum et avariciam posse: suffragium autem ecclesie est in arbitrio dei solius.
29. Quis scit, si omnes anime in purgatorio velint redimi, sicut de s. Severino et Paschali factum narratur.
30. Nullus securus est de veritate sue contritionis, multominus de consecutione plarie remissionis.
31. Quam rarus est vere penitens, tam rarus est vere indulgentias redimens, i.e. rarissimus.
32. Damnabuntur ineternum cum suis magistris, qui per literas veniarum securos sese credunt de sua salute.
33. Cavendi sunt nimis, qui dicunt venias illas Pape donum esse illud dei inestimabile, quo reconciliatur homo deo.
34. Gratie enim ille veniales tantum respiciunt penas satisfactionis ab homine constitutas.
35. Non christiana predicant, qui docent, quod redempturis animas vel confessoinalia non sit necessaria contritio.
36. Quilibet christianus vere compunctus habet remissionem plenariam a pena et culpa etiam sine literis veniarum sibi debitam.
37. Quilibet verus christianus, sive vivus sive mortuus, habet participationem omnium bonorum Christi et Ecclesie etiam sine literis veniarum a deo sibi datum.
38. Remissio tamen et participatio Pape nullo modo est contemnende, quia (vt dixi) est declaratio remissionis divine.
39. Difficillium est etiam doctissimis Theologis simul extollere veniarum largitatem et contritionis veritatem coram populo.
40. Contritionis veritas penas querit et amat, Veniarum autem largitas relaxat et odisse facit, saltem occasione.
41. Caute sunt venie apostolice predicande, ne polulus false intelligat eas preferri ceteris bonis operibus charitatis.
42. Docendi sunt christiani, quod Pape mens non est redemptionem veniarum ulla ex parte comparandam esse operibus misericordie.
43. Docendi sunt christiani, quod dans pauperi aut mutuans egenti melius facit quam si venias redimeret.
44. Quia per opus charitatis crescit et fit homo melior, sed per venias non fit melior sed tantummode a pena liberior.
45. Docendi sunt christiani, quod, qui videt egenum et neglecto eo dat pro veniis, non indulgentias Pape sed indignattionem dei sibi vendicat.

 

[amadeus]

who are the virgins? what is the oil? and who are they without the spare oil?

Can you answer each your questions in a few paragraphs or verses that will not exceed the forum limit for one post?

"And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the virgins; so that he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti." Esther 2:17

"There are threescore queens, and fourscore concubines, and virgins without number.
My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:8-9

"And thou shalt command the children of Israel, that they bring thee pure oil olive beaten for the light, to cause the lamp to burn always." Ex 27:20

"Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over." Psalm 23:5

"There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up." Prov 21:20

By the way the above verses were not my ready-made or prepared ahead of time answers. When you asked I did not have an answers, but God will help us in our time of need if we ask of Him and our hearts are right. Those verses may not be crystal clear to every heart, but at least most people on this forum could read them and ask for clarification if desired.

Give God the glory!

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

Similarly, consider:

Amore et studio elucidande veritas hec subscripta disputabuntur Wittenberge, Presidente R.P. Martino Lutter, Artium et S. Theologie Magistro eiusdemque ibidem lectore Ordinario. Quare petit, ut qui non possunt verbis presentes nobiscum disceptare agant id literis absentes. In nomine domini nostri Hiesu Christi. Amen....

Where's the other half? - https://www.luther.de/en/95th-lat.html

 

[amadeus]

Where's the other half? - https://www.luther.de/en/95th-lat.html

It would not fit on one post. Since not everyone here would know what it was or take the time to read it if they did and they could I did not bother with the rest.
Have I made my point?
Give God the glory!

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

It would not fit on one post. Since not everyone here would know what it was or take the time to read it if they did and they could I did not bother with the rest.
Have I made my point?
Give God the glory!

No. You simply quoted half-ish of Luthers' 95 Theses in Latin, without context, and without translation and without sourcing it. Even Luther posted all of it publically and was willing to discuss it.

 

[amadeus]

No. You simply quoted half-ish of Luthers' 95 Theses in Latin, without context, and without translation and without sourcing it. Even Luther posted all of it publically and was willing to discuss it.

You still missed my point. I would be willing to have a discussion with you but not on a book I haven't read.

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

...I would be willing to have a discussion with you but not on a book I haven't read.

You have read the "book" of Hebrews? - https://www.christianityboard.com/t...jehovah-my-rest-remaineth-to-my-people.26200/

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes so true, but people generally want to know when they have to be prepared for this event so that they are not left behind so to speak.

then they have not understood that they were meant to be "caught up" when they died and rose at baptism, and they have already been "left behind"
imo

 

[amadeus]

You have read the "book" of Hebrews? - https://www.christianityboard.com/t...jehovah-my-rest-remaineth-to-my-people.26200/

I have read it.

 

[brakelite]

After Pentecost, Peter and John went to the temple to pray. Seeing a crippled beggar on the temple steps, Peter said for him to rise and walk. He did. This upset the rulers. They considered themselves the highest spiritual/ religious authority in the land, demanded obedience from the apostles that they should no longer preach or teach in the name of Jesus. They refused.
The accusation is often made by Catholics against protestants that because they view the Bible as their authority, they are promoting themselves as pope. As the authority over spiritual matters in direct opposition to Rome.
But Peters reply to the Sanhedrin is the same as mine to those accusations against protestants who believe the Bible, the Word of God, and not tradition, is the only foundation for our hope and faith.
KJV Acts 4
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Peter and John's reply was not that they were claiming authority over the Jewish rulers, and promoting themselves as pipes our sole interpreters of scripture, but were promoting God as the authority... His word as authority... And themselves as surrendering to that authority. It is the same as what THBE and others are doing here. We are not claiming authority over anyone that you should obey us. We are exalting scripture and pleading that all should reject church authority in the guise of the Roman papacy, and simply surrender to the scripture. This does not mean a rejection of teachers, but to be Bereans, studying the scriptures a presented, to allow the holy Spirit to teach and guide you into all truth.
We Adventists on this forum are all different. We have our own style of writing, our own perspective on sharing, and come across in different ways. To some the response is, show me scripture and prove your assertions. Until THBE arrived, we did as you asked, and in your mind proved nothing. You say we've not provided enough evidence. THBE has presented screeds of scriptural evidence for our beliefs, and you all respond by saying it's too much.
You have not surrendered to scriptural authority, but to your Protestant church traditions, and to by extension Catholic church traditions as your authority.
You are no different to the sanhedrin who flogged Peter and John demanding they keep silent. But we have a message. Instead of critiquing our style of delivery or our personality, our judging our message on hearsay concerning Ellen White and/or the Millerite movement and the SDA church which sprang from it, judge the message on its merits. Please.

 

[amadeus]

After Pentecost, Peter and John went to the temple to pray. Seeing a crippled beggar on the temple steps, Peter said for him to rise and walk. He did. This upset the rulers. They considered themselves the highest spiritual/ religious authority in the land, demanded obedience from the apostles that they should no longer preach or teach in the name of Jesus. They refused.
The accusation is often made by Catholics against protestants that because they view the Bible as their authority, they are promoting themselves as pope. As the authority over spiritual matters in direct opposition to Rome.
But Peters reply to the Sanhedrin is the same as mine to those accusations against protestants who believe the Bible, the Word of God, and not tradition, is the only foundation for our hope and faith.
KJV Acts 4
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Peter and John's reply was not that they were claiming authority over the Jewish rulers, and promoting themselves as pipes our sole interpreters of scripture, but were promoting God as the authority... His word as authority... And themselves as surrendering to that authority. It is the same as what THBE and others are doing here. We are not claiming authority over anyone that you should obey us. We are exalting scripture and pleading that all should reject church authority in the guise of the Roman papacy, and simply surrender to the scripture. This does not mean a rejection of teachers, but to be Bereans, studying the scriptures a presented, to allow the holy Spirit to teach and guide you into all truth.
We Adventists on this forum are all different. We have our own style of writing, our own perspective on sharing, and come across in different ways. To some the response is, show me scripture and prove your assertions. Until THBE arrived, we did as you asked, and in your mind proved nothing. You say we've not provided enough evidence. THBE has presented screeds of scriptural evidence for our beliefs, and you all respond by saying it's too much.
You have not surrendered to scriptural authority, but to your Protestant church traditions, and to by extension Catholic church traditions as your authority.
You are no different to the sanhedrin who flogged Peter and John demanding they keep silent. But we have a message. Instead of critiquing our style of delivery or our personality, our judging our message on hearsay concerning Ellen White and/or the Millerite movement and the SDA church which sprang from it, judge the message on its merits. Please.

Perhaps you are talking about me as well. For that I would be sorry as I have in the past read some of your posts and agreed with them. If it were not for you so often and avidly joining the attack against Catholics here, I would likely still be checking your words closely instead of skipping over most of them as soon as I see your name.

My experience with SDA has been primarily on forums such as these.
The good thing is that all of the ones that I recall have come across are either well versed in the scriptures or are good at cutting and posting from someone who was. This last is not necessarily an evil thing, but a person who can cut and post should be willing and able to discuss something rather than just referring to the "powers that be" [not God] or answer questions on these things in a manner that hopefully any questioner can understand.

For me to understand long discourses with lots of scriptures quoted requires a large time investment. If to every simple question such an lengthy complication answer is given I'll usually be finished very early without regard to what the point was. I already have a lot of things from the scriptures that I follow and have followed even if I cannot quote them all verbatim. A simple answer sometimes works wonders. Then if there is a question that needs a scripture that's OK too, but don't overload the circuit. You're likely to throw the circuit breaker and who does that edify?

We do often speak very different languages on forums such as these. My out of date Catholic background often has left me without understanding of some terminology used by some Catholics here and elsewhere. Similarly my lack of conversation or real face to face experience with those of SDA leaves me often at an even greater distance from them.

Communication is not accomplished very well by attempting to force feed others with what we have or overloading the dinner table with "my way or the highway" type courses. Discussion can be [should be?] a two way street. If someone is really hungry for the things of God and you have some of those things, will God use you to communicate them to the hungry? If your attitude is wrong, probably not. Same with mine. The best of doctrines are nothing without charity.

Generally my negative experience on forums with those of SDA inclination has not due as much to their position on the 7th day as it is on their attack mode. I don't like that in SDA or Catholicism or anyone else... even if their thoughts and conclusions might otherwise carry a reasonable sound. The "reasonable" sound would then be overwhelmed by the "sounding brass" or "tinkling cymbal" of their uncharitable spirit which could not be the Holy Spirit.

Have I ever missed it allowing my spirit to lead instead of the Holy Spirit? Certainly, but like David when I have realized my error I really have tried to correct it and move forward with God.

See you on the forums. Hopefully you will have something worth reading that won't press me to skip on to someone and something else.

Give God the glory!

 

[Philip James]

The best of doctrines are nothing without charity.

Amen!

 

[brakelite]

If it were not for you so often and avidly joining the attack against Catholics here,

I was raised Catholic also. But I think you would be hard pressed to find any post of mine attacking Catholics. Attacking Catholic doctrine and fraud, yes. No apologies there.

instead of skipping over most of them as soon as I see your name.

I am grateful you read the one above.

attack mode

Never good when it gets personal. And I cringe when Adventists do that.

 

[amadeus]

I was raised Catholic also. But I think you would be hard pressed to find any post of mine attacking Catholics. Attacking Catholic doctrine and fraud, yes. No apologies there.

Well you have to do what God leads you to do. I recognize the distinction you make between the official doctrine and the individual. Normally I steer away from the official doctrine as I have never really studied it that much. As a Catholic I only knew what I heard and now the little I remember from 50+ years ago. I have learned a bit more from what I have read online from Catholics. I, however, do not really seek to learn that. I seek rather to learn what God wants me to learn, which I grant at times will be more about Catholicism.

I am grateful you read the one above.
Never God when it gets personal. And I cringe when Adventists do that.

So then we are in agreement on that. It bothers me when anyone get too personal that way. I've been guilty, but I do strive to avoid doing it. We can learn from each other [not just speaking of you and me personally] as well. I remember when the donkey spoke to let a man know where he was going wrong. Even someone who is way off base in his beliefs can help us out at times.

Give God the glory!

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

I watched one.

"The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.
(Decretal, de Translat. Episcop. Cap. quoted by Christian Edwardson, Facts of Faith, page 297), page 297)​

Decretal, de Translat. Episcop. Cap. is a fabrication. No such Catholic document exists. ...

A non-primary source with shorthand notation references is not "a fabrication"; just more difficult to retrace to a primary source) from Christian Edwardon's "Facts of Faith", page 297, see:

https://books.google.com/books?id=Is4TSSfGsC8C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

https://m.egwwritings.org/en/book/945.2014?hl=

Same in other non-primary sources, sometimes with "Quanto", and sometimes with a misspelling "Tranlatic" (which means nothing):

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q="The+pope+has+power+to+change+times"

See:

Decretal. (Decretales Domini Papae Gregorii Noni [IX]), [A papal decree of 'Lord' 'pope' Gregory IX]
de Translat. (de Translatione) [of transfering/transference]
Episcop. (Episcoporum) [(of) Bishops]
Cap. (Capitulum) [Chapter]
[lib. i. tit. 6.] (Liber (extra). 1, Titulus. 6 (John Foxe) (sometimes seen as '7')) [Book 1, Title 6, or '7']
3. [3rd chapter] (Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205.) - http://thefutureevent.com/nsl.htm
"Quanto" [How (method)]​

See (Pages 108 (right hand Column, Liber I. Titulus VII (7), Chapter III. "Quanto") - 109) - http://digital.library.ucla.edu/canonlaw/librarian?ITEMPAGE=CJC2_B01&PREV

See (search by "Quanto", should be last option in search) - https://books.google.com/books?id=SqNMvqxqac8C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

See:

https://books.google.com/books?id=H...MXAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA159&hl=en#v=onepage&q&f=false

"The Acts and Monuments of John Foxe

All the earth is my diocese; and I the ordinary of all men, having the authority of the King of all kings upon subjects. I am all in all, and above all, so that God himself, and I the vicar of God, have both one consistory,190 and I am able to do almost all that God can do, 'clave non errante!'191 Item, It is said of me that I have a heavenly arbitrement,192 and therefore am able to change the nature of things, 'substantialia unius applicando alteri,' and of nothing to make things to be; and of a sentence that is nothing, to make it stand in effect; in all things that I list, my will to stand for reason: for I am able by the law to dispense above the law, and of wrong to make justice, in correcting laws and changing them.

You have heard hitherto sufficiently out of my doctors. Now you shall hear greater things out of mine own decrees. Read there dist. 96. cap.7. 'Satis.' 193 Also Caus. 11. q. 1. cap. 41. 'Sacerdotibus. 194 Also Caus. 12. q. 1. cap. 15. 'Futuram.' 195 Do not you find there expressed, how Constantine the emperor, sitting in the general council at Nice, called us prelates of the church all 'gods'? Again, read my canon decretal, De transl. episc. cap. 'Quanto.' 196 Do you not see there manifestly expressed, how not man, but God alone separateth that which the bishop of Rome doth dissolve and separate? Wherefore, if those things that I do, be said to be done not of man, but of God ; what can you make me but God? aa Again, if prelates of the church be called and counted of Constantine for gods, I then, being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore no marvel, if it be in my power to change time and times, to alter and abrogate laws, to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ:± for, where Christ biddeth Peter put up his sword, and admonished his disciples not to use any outward force in revenging themselves, do not I, Pope Nicholas, writing to the bishops of France, exhort them to draw out their material swords in pursuing their enemies, and recovering their possessions; setting against the precept of Christ, the prophet saying, "Dissolve colligationes impietatis!" &c.197[Isa 58:6 ... to loose the bands of wickedness ...]

(188) Gloss, in caus. 11. q. 3. c. 14. 'Absit.'
(189) Gloss, in caus. 11. q. 3. 'Si inimicus.'
(190) Hostiensis [Henricus de Segusia] in c. 'Quanto de transl. praeb.' [Lectura ad Decretales, I. vii. 3: "Consistorium Dei et papae unum et idem est censendum."] See below also.
(191) Ex summa casuum fratris Baptista.
(192) Ex Citatione Henr. Bulling, de fine Seculi. orat. prima. [1st sermon pgs. 55-56]+
Item, ex Citatione Jacobi Andreas, adversus Hossum, lib. v.
Item, ex Citatione Hier. Marii in actis [secundi Diei, p. 180: Causa xvii. q. 4. c. 30.]
(193) Pope Nicolaus, Dist. 96. c. 7 'Satis.'
(194) [Causa] 11. q. 41. 'Sacerdotibus.'
(195) [Causa] 12. q. l. ' Futurum.'
(196) Decretal. [Greg. IX.] de Transl. [lib. i. tit. 6.] c. 3. 'Quanto.'
(aa) Thus you may see it verified, that St. Paul prophesieth, of the adversary sitting in the temple as God and boasting himself above all that is named God, &c. 2 Thess. 11.
(197) Pope Nicolaus, Causa 15, q. 6. c. 'Autoritatem.'

— The Acts and Monuments of John Foxe, Volume 4, Part 1, 1856, by John Foxe (1516-1587), pgs. 159-160.

...

± Note carefully that this is John Foxe expressing in his words the likely thoughts of the pope out loud. It is not a direct papal quote, but a synthesis of the extrapolated meaning of the referenced documents found in canon law as listed. Essentially the same information and similar wording is found in Illustrations of Popery: The "Mystery of Iniquity" Unveiled: J. P. Callendar, 1838, pgs. 209-210. This is frequently misquoted and attributed to "Decretal. de Tranlatic Episcop Cap". In Quanto personam, Pope Innocent III actually asserts that only the Roman Pontiff has the power to transfer and separate bishops. It was a letter addressed to five bishops in Germany regarding Conrad of Querfurt, a bishop who had transferred himself, without papal permission, from Hildesheim (Hildesemensis) to Würzburg (Herbipolensis). The key sentence, in which divine authority to govern the church in such matters is claimed solely for the Bishop of Rome, reads:

Non enim homo, sed Deus separat, quos Romanus Pontifex (qui non puri hominis, sed veri Dei vicem gerit in terris) ecclesiarum necessitate vel utilitate pensata, non humana, sed divina potius auctoritate dissolvit.

God, not man, separates [a bishop from his Church] because the Roman Pontiff does not exercise the office of a man, but of the true God on earth, carefully considering the need and usefulness of each translation, he dissolves the bond by divine rather than by human authority.

See 196 above. Also, the placement of footnotes above has been changed from the original, from leading to trailing, for clarity. " - http://biblelight.net/Extravagantes.htm​

 

[TheHolyBookEnds]

I ...

See also:

Summary. 1. Is of so great dignity and highness, so that is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. - 2. Pope is of such lofty and supreme dignity that, properly speaking, is not in the positions of dignity, but rather upon the very summit of dignities is set. - 3. The Pope is the Father of fathers.

12. Is likewise the divine monarch, and supreme emperor, and king of kings. - 13. Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown as king of heaven, earth and under the earth. - 14. Indeed, of the Roman Pontiff and the power of the excellence of that, not only to heavenly things, earthly and infernal, but also over the angels, of which he himself is the greater.

16. Is of so great dignity and power, that he forms one and the same tribunal with Christ.

18. When we come to the authority of the Pope, the Pope is as it were God on earth, beings of Christ 's the prince, the king of the greatest of all the kings, containing the fullness of power, to whom both the earthly and the government of the empire from the coelstis omniptente been committed to God.

23. From this point I to commonly received ideas he teaches, that Popes should have jurisdiction of both of the sword, the spiritual, of course, and the temporal.

30. Is of so great authority and power, so that it can even divine laws to modify, declare, or interpret, as Art. 31. - [Empty]

1. Is of so great dignity and highness, that there may be mere man, but the vicar of God as if God ...

3. Hence the Pope is the same as the Father of fathers, as is noted to the Gloss. It is commonly received in the Foreword

4. Clement., For. The Pope.

13. Hence the Pope is crowned with three crowns, as if the King of heaven and earth, and under the earth;

14. Indeed, the excellence of the Roman Pontiff and the power of that, not only to heavenly things, earthly and infernal, but also over the angels, of which he himself is the greater;

16. For so great is the dignity and power, that he forms one and the same tribunal with Christ,

18. When we come, then, to the authority of the Pope; the Pope is God on earth, as it were, one of Christ 's the prince, the king of the greatest of all the kings, containing the fullness of power, to whom the earthly and heavenly at the same time the helm of the empire by the Almighty God were committed to, insofar as it is clearly established in the can.

Ut sicut Beatus Petrus in terris vicarius Filii Dei fuit constitutus, ita et Pontifices eius successores

As the blessed Peter in the vicar of the Son of God on earth was appointed, so the Pontiffs his successors, and

“... 30. Papa tantae est auctoritatis et potestatis, ut possit quoque leges divinas modificare, declarare, vel interpretari … Hinc dicimus, quod Papa potest contra legem divinam aliquando venire limitando, declarando, etc., … Papa ius divinum potest modificare, cum eius potestas non sit ex homine, sex ex Deo, et in terris Dei vices fungitur cum amplissima potestate oves suas ligandi et solvendi … Papa potest interpretari, et ex causa limitare ius divinum, ut tradunt communiter omnes …” [pg. 45] -

"" "... 30. Is of so great authority and power, so that it can even divine laws to modify, declare, or interpret ... Hence it is said, that the pope, can be said against the divine law by limiting to come at any time, by making clear, etc.. ... The pope can modify divine law, since his own power is not of man, six from God, and in the acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of his sheep of binding and loosing can be interpreted "... the pope, and for reason to limit the right of God, such as is commonly say that all the ..."

... to be continued ...​