Bashing God - The Rise Of Modern Atheism

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I sat down with some friends recently to discuss the scripture of AMOS. During the conversation, the subject of God bashing came up. It was my position that opposition to religion, specifically Christianity is on the rise; geometrically.

Our Lord assured us that the world would hate us and consider the gospel to be foolishness. In the course of history it seems to have been always so. However, its my impression that Christian bashing and a general disrespect for God (if not outright hatred) is more pronounced, open, and shall I say more popular than ever before.

I am an American Christian and so my attention has been normally focused on issues which affect me, my church, and my nation. However, God bashing and Christian bashing seem to be only the tip of the iceburg. Have you read the extremely vitriolic accusations which have been directed at Jews lately? It makes Christian bashing look like love taps.

The Kingdom of God seems to be on the ropes these days and the ascendency of atheism and the Kingdom of Satan seems to be at hand.

That's the way it looks to me. My brothers did not share my opinion. Mostly they thought that the issue was one of ignorance, the population simply not understanding where we are coming from. My point is that its deeper than that. My point is that the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of wickedness are now locked in open (and not usually truthful) dialogue - with open war not far away.

What say you? Is it ignorance or prejudice? Is it peaceful dialogue or open warfare?

What are your observations as well as arguments?

 

[aspen]

I think Dawkins and Hitchins are both cashing in on the promotion of secularism, at the moment. They oppose all religions - pointing out the sex scandal in the Catholic Church and terrorism in Islamic circles as prime examples of why religion serves as a transitional object for primitive man and needs to be rooted out before we can evolve further. I happen to think it is a nature reaction to all of the talk about the end of the world surrounding the year 2012 and the death of modernism

What I think is ironic is that atheism is actually a hold over of modernism - these atheists are actually outdated. We are well into an age of Postmodernism, where religion has been welcomed back into the public forum. Another irony is that fundamentalism, which was created to challenge the secularism of modernistic thought is just as outdated. So the only people that the atheists of modernism (mere ghosts, at this point) are actually challenging are fundamentalists, who are more overwhelmed by the pluralism of postmodernism to adequately respond to the atheists. In fact, I think the main area that atheists have gained a foothold is in the Creationism / Evolution debate. It is my hope that both secular atheists and literalistic fundamentalism will both evaporate in the light of God's Kingdom, where we are called to drop our dualistic thinking and love one another.

What say you? Is it ignorance or prejudice? Is it peaceful dialogue or open warfare? What are your observations as well as arguments?

I think it is open warfare - but only for people who see the world in a dualistic manner - like fundamentalists and atheists - you guys need each other to define yourselves. So, go ahead and play your game of cops and robbers - I will be busy not taking sides and loving radically.

Peace

 

[pia]

Hi there...Ahh yes Richard Dawkins, what can one say? It is easy to agree with him on some points, as he does seem to seek out the most ridiculous things within religion.....He seems to completely miss the point, that even atheism is a form of religion.

ALL religion is man made !! God IS NOT a religion...He is THE TRUTH..He is NOT a religious figure..He is THE CREATOR.
He, our Father, desires that ( now that we are able ) we get to KNOW HIM, not just read and study things about HIM, but actually get to know Him intimately, as our REAL FATHER.

So NOT RELIGION, but a RELATIONSHIP.

In Him Pia

 

[marksman]

I have been debating atheists on the web for most of this year. This is what I have found.

ONE. They have got where they have because no one has taken them on to expose their lies.As the year has progressed and their rubbish has been challenged they have gone to water, for the simple reason there is no answer to the truth.

TWO. Atheism is rebellion. They know there is a God but they don't want to accept the fact and admit that they are free to do as they please.

THREE. One of their favourite ploys is to demand that we prove there is a God. There is plenty of proof but I insist that they prove there is no God. They will avoid this like the plague because they know that they cannot prove there is no God.

FOUR. They quote the Old Testament to show what a horrible God we have. However, when it is pointed out that they believe that the bible is a fairy story and that God does not exist, what is the point in quoting the bible? In fact if that is your belief, you cannot quote the bible as it has no validity.

FIVE. Evolution. They are all at sea with this one. How come nothing has evolved since Darwin? Mumble, mumble, mumble.

SIX. To show how terrible religion is they will bring up 3 things. The Crusades. Fred Phelps and Hitler who according to them was a christian. When it is pointed out to them the barbaric nature of the atheistic governments of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, North Korea, Cuba they will go to great lengths to deny they are atheistic.

SEVEN. They will talk about what a wonderful world it would be without religion. We talk about the stinking, rotten world that atheism has given us with the wholesale genocide of babies to be born. Of course they cannot deny this as it is obvious religion did not demand governments make it legal to kill babies in the womb.

EIGHT. They assure us that we are all bigots and intolerant because we don't agree with them. They haven't worked out yet that they are just as guilty as they believe in freedom of speech as long as you agree with them.

NINE. They will constantly tell you that they make their decisions on the basis of logic and intelligence. This of course falls in a heap when we remind them they were fooled for 50 years with the Piltdown Man hoax.

TEN. Generally speaking they don't want an answer to their question, they want an argument and the opportunity to show how clever they are and how stupid we are to believe in a God that does not exist.

Finally, they hate it when you tell them whether they believe there is a God or not, they will find out the truth when they stand before him on judgment day, then it will be too late.

 

[pia]

Hi everyone........ I think it's about time we stop seeing Our Father, as just a slightly better human, than we are with all the same faults ( jealousy,rage,bitterness,spitefulness etc. etc......All the human qualities which take us away from love.
Jesus said that a house divided against itself cannot stand.....So how could God's house stand, if he is constantly divided against His own Word.

Jesus revealed The Father to us, AS OUR LOVING FATHER, the One who desires that all men be saved, the One who desires that we should all love one another, in the same way that He loved His son Jesus.

How can God be loving, merciful full of grace, if He also ( as some think ) hates us, condemns us is frustrated with us, displeased with us etc, etc.

God is LIGHT, not darkness..... God is Love, not hate........God desires to save us, not destroy us......And on and on.

The way most Christians talk about / explain God, one would think they were talking about the devil instead...Ah yes, The Great Delusion Paul talks about...Have you ever sought The Lord about, what that is exactly?????

Also beware out there....How close a lot of Christians come to blaspheming The Holy Spirit, when they accuse God of doing and demanding all these things of us.
God is love, and love is NEVER demanding.
When you see Him, He will no doubt ask you :" So what have you learned about Love?"...Well how about it????

regards Pia

 

[aspen]

Great post Pia

I think I am starting to realize something important.......I view atheists as harmless - their mindset is so narrow and they choose to operate in such a limited sphere of reality that I cannot see average people falling for their limited world view, unless they really hated religion. Fundamentalists on the other hand are difficult for me because, although they tend to have a limited world view as well, they are dealing with truth and attempting to curtail it to promote anger and judgement, rather than the Good News of Christ. I expect sarcasm and anger from atheists, but I am still shocked when I see it in people who call themselves Christians.

 

[bud02]

I have been debating atheists on the web for most of this year. This is what I have found.

ONE. They have got where they have because no one has taken them on to expose their lies.As the year has progressed and their rubbish has been challenged they have gone to water, for the simple reason there is no answer to the truth.

TWO. Atheism is rebellion. They know there is a God but they don't want to accept the fact and admit that they are free to do as they please.

THREE. One of their favourite ploys is to demand that we prove there is a God. There is plenty of proof but I insist that they prove there is no God. They will avoid this like the plague because they know that they cannot prove there is no God.

FOUR. They quote the Old Testament to show what a horrible God we have. However, when it is pointed out that they believe that the bible is a fairy story and that God does not exist, what is the point in quoting the bible? In fact if that is your belief, you cannot quote the bible as it has no validity.

FIVE. Evolution. They are all at sea with this one. How come nothing has evolved since Darwin? Mumble, mumble, mumble.

SIX. To show how terrible religion is they will bring up 3 things. The Crusades. Fred Phelps and Hitler who according to them was a christian. When it is pointed out to them the barbaric nature of the atheistic governments of Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, North Korea, Cuba they will go to great lengths to deny they are atheistic.

SEVEN. They will talk about what a wonderful world it would be without religion. We talk about the stinking, rotten world that atheism has given us with the wholesale genocide of babies to be born. Of course they cannot deny this as it is obvious religion did not demand governments make it legal to kill babies in the womb.

EIGHT. They assure us that we are all bigots and intolerant because we don't agree with them. They haven't worked out yet that they are just as guilty as they believe in freedom of speech as long as you agree with them.

NINE. They will constantly tell you that they make their decisions on the basis of logic and intelligence. This of course falls in a heap when we remind them they were fooled for 50 years with the Piltdown Man hoax.

TEN. Generally speaking they don't want an answer to their question, they want an argument and the opportunity to show how clever they are and how stupid we are to believe in a God that does not exist.

Finally, they hate it when you tell them whether they believe there is a God or not, they will find out the truth when they stand before him on judgment day, then it will be too late.

Im glad to see someone else that the Lord has armed to witness to modern science and unsubstantiated claims that are preached as truth.
In spite of the known facts science and evolution are in big trouble from an atheist perspective, the more we know as fact the clearer the Creator becomes. You may be interested in this. http://www.christian...-billion-years/
You can now share with your atheist friends that science "Einsteins" principles brought us the fact of the big bang but more importantly the theory of relativity proves that if you had a clock running at the point of the expansion of the universe, only a bit more than six days would have ticked off of this clock. But if you had an identical clock running in the expanding gasses that would become earth........guess what more than 15 billion years would have ticked off that clock. Six day creation anyone? So If you were God at the point of origin only six days have passed. Im looking forward to the 7th day of rest. If we look at the very small we see similar evidence that points to our Creator, the point is God manifest Himself on both the micro and macro levels.

Psalms 19:1-6 (NIV)

"The heavens declare the glory of God ;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
​

Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
​

There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
​

Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun,
which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion,
like a champion rejoicing to run his course.
​

It rises at one end of the heavens
and makes its circuit to the other;
nothing is hidden from its heat."

​

Psalms 19:1-6

 

[veteran]

I think it is open warfare - but only for people who see the world in a dualistic manner - like fundamentalists and atheists - you guys need each other to define yourselves. So, go ahead and play your game of cops and robbers - I will be busy not taking sides and loving radically.

Peace

It is open warfare, but the real war is certainly not between fundamentalists and atheists. It is between Christ's servants and the devil's servants. Both recognize that the other exists and is their direct enemy. Cut and dried, just like God's Word shows (Eph.6:12).

And what logic is that in a later post that atheists are simply harmless because of their limited world view? Communism is the outward philosophical and political practice of atheism, and is a direct threat to not only Christianity and God's Truth, but even for nations that want to choose how they govern themselves.

There is a spiritual war that's been going on throughout the history of this present world, and it continues. EVERYONE must choose sides. There is NO middleground, no sidelines to hide on. Either one is a believer on The Saviour Jesus Christ, or they are not. That also means, a confessing believer on Christ Jesus either believes The Bible is The Word of God, and is Truth, or they believe it is not. No middleground in that either. And that is irregardless of man's creeds and playing religion.

 

[religusnut]

It is an amazing thing that there are so many people that profess to be Christians yet they see nothing wrong with so many things in this world that are un-Godly.

 

[Foreigner]

It is an amazing thing that there are so many people that profess to be Christians yet they see nothing wrong with so many things in this world that are un-Godly.

-- Exactly correct.

 

[mjrhealth]

What amazes me is that so many chrstians run around thinking they can do Gods work for Him, instead of praying for His will to be done and letting Him do the work When you try to do His work. He stops working.
He wont share His glory with you, its His and His alone.

In His Love

 

[aspen]

Personal sin is only visible in others to promote perspective taking skills, empathy, love and forgiveness. Sin is a compromise with the things that truly benefit us - we should be inspired to stop sinning because we are missing out on God's goodness, not because we are wretched, depraved, worthless sinners. It is as if some Christians believe their sin is hurting God or taking something away from Him! How arrogant is that?! We are His creation - He wants good things for us, but we cannot hurt an Omnipotent God - despite what the OT testament writers claimed - they were reasoning with what they knew, at the time. No sinner is going to listen to a self-righteous message about making personal changes because the-arrogant-guy-on-the-corner-handed-me-a-track-about-what-a-loser-I-am.

The Good News is not magic! It needs to be working in our lives to be visible and attractive to others. If we are not serving and loving and forgiving others, we cannot expect the people we are witnessing to to believe our witness.

One of the best witnesses for Christ in recent years was when the Amish chose to forgive one of their own people for killing several Amish kids. Their forgiveness speaks volumes about Christ's forgiveness - it is a true witness, yet some Christians actually discount it because the killer deserved punishment or the Amish do not have right theology - outrageous!

Peace

 

[veteran]

It is an amazing thing that there are so many people that profess to be Christians yet they see nothing wrong with so many things in this world that are un-Godly.

It's called brainwashing. And it reveals an open war by Satan's little workers on earth against God's people.

 

[Foreigner]

One of the best witnesses for Christ in recent years was when the Amish chose to forgive one of their own people for killing several Amish kids. Their forgiveness speaks volumes about Christ's forgiveness - it is a true witness, yet some Christians actually discount it because the killer deserved punishment or the Amish do not have right theology - outrageous!

Peace

-- You are absolutely correct in the God-inspired awe inspiring way that the Amish handled this situation.
It is both inspiring and humbling when you ponder on it. Walking the walk when the walk is the most difficult. Amazing.


The "Christians" in the "yet some Christians actually discount it because..." portion gives the implication that that was a marked percentage of Christians. I would venture to say that the number of "Christians" who actually felt/feel that way is miniscule.


I have never met a single Christian who has felt that way. I have also never seen a comment implying that on any prayer site or discussion site, period. Are there some one-off nuts that feel that way? Almost certainly. I could see those idiots who protest the servicemen's funerals saying "God hates fags" and trash like that likely embracing that type of thinking.


But EVERY organization, religious or secular has a far-out fringe. They are the exception not the norm and the entire group should not be judged by them.
In the majority of cases the very group they profess to be a part of is among those denouncing them.

 

[aspen]

-- You are absolutely correct in the God-inspired awe inspiring way that the Amish handled this situation.
It is both inspiring and humbling when you ponder on it. Walking the walk when the walk is the most difficult. Amazing.


The "Christians" in the "yet some Christians actually discount it because..." portion gives the implication that that was a marked percentage of Christians. I would venture to say that the number of "Christians" who actually felt/feel that way is miniscule.


I have never met a single Christian who has felt that way. I have also never seen a comment implying that on any prayer site or discussion site, period. Are there some one-off nuts that feel that way? Almost certainly. I could see those idiots who protest the servicemen's funerals saying "God hates fags" and trash like that likely embracing that type of thinking.


But EVERY organization, religious or secular has a far-out fringe. They are the exception not the norm and the entire group should not be judged by them.
In the majority of cases the very group they profess to be a part of is among those denouncing them.

Well, I am thrilled to hear it! It is one of the most powerful stories I have heard in recent years and I have run into opposition (I really was surprised at the time) on other boards from several Christians - since it was the majority of people who responded to my post, I mistakenly thought I would run into the same opposition here. I am really glad I am mistaken! I am actually getting chills thinking about the incredible power of God in their testimony as I type!

 

[marksman]

What amazes me is that so many chrstians run around thinking they can do Gods work for Him, instead of praying for His will to be done and letting Him do the work When you try to do His work. He stops working.He wont share His glory with you, its His and His alone.In His Love

I don't know if others get the same impression as me, but it seems to me as long as you are doing something, it doesn't matter if it is God approved or not. Perhaps that is why the church is irrelevant to so many people.

An evagelist friend of mine was asked to start a youth fellowship in the church. He agreed and the first thing he did was to do nothing. The elders were a bit concerned so they asked him why nothing was happening. His reply was that God hadn't told him what to do yet.

After 10 days of doing nothing he got his instructions. He was to go to a certain house in the village where he would find a teeanger (who was not a christian) who was ill and pray for him. He knockd on the door and introduced himself and asked the mother if she had a son who was ill. The answer was yes.

Would she mind if he came in and prayed for him?

Of course, of course, come in.

He was directed to a bedroom and found a teenage boy in bed a bit the worse for wear.

He introduced himself and said he would like to pray for him. This he did.

Before he left he told the boy that he was starting a youth fellowship at the church that evening and he was welcome to come.

That evening the boy turned up, healed, with about 20 of his mates.

So much easier when we do things God's way.

It is an amazing thing that there are so many people that profess to be Christians yet they see nothing wrong with so many things in this world that are un-Godly.

According to George Barna research, 54% of christian marriages end in divorce. I can see the advert now "Become a christian and end up the same as the world."

 

[aspen]

I think we tend to complicate things a lot. My understanding of my relationship with Christ is conceptual when it comes to justification and sanctification, but very practical when it comes down to loving and serving God and my neighbor. Actually, I think the more doctrine gets internalized through the exercising of my faith, the more practical it gets and the less likely every movement I make is going to be documented with a scriptural reference.​

​

Somehow, the Holy Spirit never lets my get away with a purely social gospel, however​

 

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I think we tend to complicate things a lot. My understanding of my relationship with Christ is conceptual when it comes to justification and sanctification, but very practical when it comes down to loving and serving God and my neighbor. Actually, I think the more doctrine gets internalized through the exercising of my faith, the more practical it gets and the less likely every movement I make is going to be documented with a scriptural reference.​

​

Somehow, the Holy Spirit never lets my get away with a purely social gospel, however​

Excellent point. We DO tend to complicate things too much. Perhaps its a way of muddying the water so that we don't have to see the will of God clearly.
Even so, I liked your observation that the Holy Spirit doesn't let us get away with too much social gospel.

Moderation in all things....

 

[JenniferJesus211]

I dont think there is anything wrong which ones right to believe in whatever they want.

I only dislike close-minded people! gotta keep your mind open!

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

It's easy for children to insult other children when arguing. The desire for a person to "win at all costs" is natural to human nature.

All this is just another form of bullying. Can't think of anything constructive so they can sit back and say, "Yeah, well your god is stooooooopid".

Sadly to admit, there's many christians that do this same thing. "Well, you're going to hell",,,,"If they wont obey God, we'll make laws so they have to" Or , "If they wont listen to the message of salvation, we'll just talk louder"

There's too many of us trying to "force" God onto them,,,,,,,,,,,,That's their concensus, and sadly I have to agree.

One thing we have to remember,,,, They don't know God, they have no desire to know God,,,,,,,, There's absolutely no way ever that they will understand what the Bible says or what God wants if they themselves have no desire for it. The only thing we can do is pray and hope the Lord will turn them around, and pray for our strength and growth.

It's easy to get caught up in debates thinking we're defending the faith, but all we're doing is defending ourselves.

Personally when I talk to atheists and with people who insult God, I don't debate, and I don't try to convince them they're wrong. I try to show an unbiased love and show that as believers we're here to comfort and love others. It's more actions than words.

I firmly believe that people don't want to have God in their lives because of the idea of burning forever. They don't want to stop what they're doing, and they don't want to think that they'll burn in hell for anything they've done.


Fear of God is the beginning of understanding, yes this is true. But, Fear of God only comes from those that believe. Everyone else needs love and acceptance and need to be shown that.

It's not the people we fight with, it's what ever controls them that's the problem.