"Before Abraham Was, I AM"

[XtraPercept]

Plain words, people! Plain and simple words!

Was Paul alive before he was born? ... No!
But is he eternal? ... What Apostle wouldn't be?
But if eternal, then did he begin? ... Of course!

What is a Christian but one who follows Christ? And how do they do so but by His holy Life within them?

Jesus is the first-born of the resurrected, the first among the everlasting as a prototype for all men who would seek unity with the LORD in spirit and in truth.

Did Jesus exist before He was born? ... As surely as I did!
Was I alive before I was born? ... Only as an idea, as I had a child in mind before I begot him.

The Spirit of God is from eternal to eternal, but you would confuse the knitting of unblemished flesh and unblemished Spirit with some form of mysterious pre-existence nonsense?

If the questions don't make any more sense than the answers, you can tell the thing is not from the God of truth!

 

[GodsGrace]

You need more clarification?! This is like teaching an infant! I was talking about just one verse - the expression "Consider 2 Corinthians 4:4" tells you that. It contains two occurrences of the Greek word theos, both of which are translated as god. The first occurrence is all lowercase and is referring to Satan. The second occurrence is capitalised and is referring to our heavenly Father, and Jesus' Father, almighty God YHVH.


The New Testament doesn't translate words. What words that mean theos are you talking about? The translators of the King James Version of the Bible have translated the Greek word theos into the English word God 1320 times, into the word god 13 times, into the word godly 3 times, and into God-ward 2 times.


Yes, the translators chose to capitalise the word god when it is referring to YHVH. In the MKJV they also capitalise the word his and him when it's referring to God or Jesus - it's just what they chose to do. The WEB never capitalises his and him except in one verse - Psalm 24:6 - I've no idea why, it is probably a mistake! It goes without saying that I'm not talking about when these words are the first word in a sentence, because they will always be capitalised then of course; I only mention that because you seem to struggle to understand simple things!

Saying 'God means GOD' means nothing! It's like saying Wrong means WRONG - it's pointless. Capitalising a whole word is normally done to emphasise a word, or to indicate that the writer is shouting or angry, or that the word is an acronym, e.g. NASA or KJV. Capitalising a whole word is sometimes used in headlines, book titles, or in legal documents for emphasis, though this practice is often discouraged in professional contexts as it can be harder to read.


So Jesus is not God then. How do you harmonise "Jesus is GOD" with these verses (for example, there are more verses I can quote):

1 Corinthians 11:3 WEB

(3) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.​

1 Corinthians 3:23 WEB

(23) and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.​

John 14:28 WEB

(28) You heard how I told you, ‘I go away, and I come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said ‘I am going to my Father;’ for the Father is greater than I.​

Jesus saying to God, his Father, John 17:3 WEB

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

Easy Keithr

There are two replies that will satisfy your question.

1. When Jesus was on earth,,,He was also a man.
Thus THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I is most certainly true.

2. There is a heirarchy in the Godhead/Trinity.
God Father is the being from which the other two Persons are generated....
Generated, not created.

The Son always was with God as God's Word.
Just as John states in John 1:1
The Word or Logos of God cannot be separated from Him....The logos was always with God.
He just became flesh at a certain point in time.
Just as John states in John 1:14

THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD...
AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.

Those that understand the Trinity have no problem with ANY verse that is referring to Jesus.
Those that do not care to accept the Trinity will look for any verse that SEEMS to contradict the Trinity.

Now look at these verses:
Every verse must be taken into consideration....
The NT must be reconciled.
These verses clearly state that Jesus is God.




Titus 2:9-10
9 Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.

God is our savior.


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus is both Lord and God. And He did not correct Thomas.

Hebrews 1:8
8But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God,


The Son is referred to as God.


Titus 2:13
13Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Jesus is our great God and Savior.


2 Peter 1:1
1Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Jesus is our God and Savior.


John 1:18
18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

The only God...who is at the right side of the Father.....(God is at the right hand of God).


Romans 9.5
5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all,

Jesus is God over everything.


1 John 5:20
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus is the true God.


Acts 20:28
28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

God has blood?
God Father has no blood.
God Son has blood which was shed for believers.

 

[saved by grace 101]

You need more clarification?! This is like teaching an infant! I was talking about just one verse - the expression "Consider 2 Corinthians 4:4" tells you that. It contains two occurrences of the Greek word theos, both of which are translated as god. The first occurrence is all lowercase and is referring to Satan. The second occurrence is capitalised and is referring to our heavenly Father, and Jesus' Father, almighty God YHVH.


The New Testament doesn't translate words. What words that mean theos are you talking about? The translators of the King James Version of the Bible have translated the Greek word theos into the English word God 1320 times, into the word god 13 times, into the word godly 3 times, and into God-ward 2 times.


Yes, the translators chose to capitalise the word god when it is referring to YHVH. In the MKJV they also capitalise the word his and him when it's referring to God or Jesus - it's just what they chose to do. The WEB never capitalises his and him except in one verse - Psalm 24:6 - I've no idea why, it is probably a mistake! It goes without saying that I'm not talking about when these words are the first word in a sentence, because they will always be capitalised then of course; I only mention that because you seem to struggle to understand simple things!

Saying 'God means GOD' means nothing! It's like saying Wrong means WRONG - it's pointless. Capitalising a whole word is normally done to emphasise a word, or to indicate that the writer is shouting or angry, or that the word is an acronym, e.g. NASA or KJV. Capitalising a whole word is sometimes used in headlines, book titles, or in legal documents for emphasis, though this practice is often discouraged in professional contexts as it can be harder to read.


So Jesus is not God then. How do you harmonise "Jesus is GOD" with these verses (for example, there are more verses I can quote):

1 Corinthians 11:3 WEB

(3) But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.​

1 Corinthians 3:23 WEB

(23) and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.​

John 14:28 WEB

(28) You heard how I told you, ‘I go away, and I come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I said ‘I am going to my Father;’ for the Father is greater than I.​

Jesus saying to God, his Father, John 17:3 WEB

(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​

He only addressed one of your points, and did so mistakenly. I don't know how much you have discussed this subject on the internet, but I have extensively. It is always the same, they will not address your scriptures, they insist only the ones they bring forth may be discussed. When you address their scriptures they move onto others, continuing to ignore what you place before them.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Every verse must be taken into consideration....

Amen! And Plenty More to Biblically Confirm The Truth Of The Great God And Saviour, Jesus Christ!:

163 Reasons Jesus Is Almighty God!

Still hoping and praying All will "be Considered!" Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen! And Plenty More to Biblically Confirm The Truth Of The Great God And Saviour, Jesus Christ!:

163 Reasons Jesus Is Almighty God!

Still hoping and praying All will "be Considered!" Amen.

Grace

Great!
Have copied and pasted to a file.
Thanks for posting this!

 

[lforrest]

I have an unsubstantiated belief that timelessness is on a scale.

At one end of the spectrum is total timelessness, and this is the reality for God.

In the middle is time delineated by God speaking. This is what is experienced in heaven, and is the default state for his creation. Each word from God defines existence for his creation. The time between each word is as a separate period of infinite duration. Change is possible only when God speaks.

Then there is the the chronological existence we have in this world and the universe at large. Within it existence is finite, and change is possible at any moment.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have an unsubstantiated belief that timelessness is on a scale.

At one end of the spectrum is total timelessness, and this is the reality for God.

In the middle is time delineated by God speaking. This is what is experienced in heaven, and is the default state for his creation. Each word from God defines existence for his creation. The time between each word is as a separate period of infinite duration. Change is possible only when God speaks.

Then there is the the chronological existence we have in this world and the universe at large. Within it existence is finite, and change is possible at any moment.

Interesting 3rd paragraph.
Trying to understand it but it might be a personal revelation.
In which case,,,not everyone will understand it.

 

[XtraPercept]

I have an unsubstantiated belief that timelessness is on a scale.

At one end of the spectrum is total timelessness, and this is the reality for God.

In the middle is time delineated by God speaking. This is what is experienced in heaven, and is the default state for his creation. Each word from God defines existence for his creation. The time between each word is as a separate period of infinite duration. Change is possible only when God speaks.

Then there is the the chronological existence we have in this world and the universe at large. Within it existence is finite, and change is possible at any moment.

The lack of substantiation should tell you enough of the validity of this interpretation you hold some degree of faith in.

All things lie within spectrums, scales, balances, and all manner of equipment and function unseen by man but through the direct revelations of the Spirit.

I can attest to the inaccuracy of your intuition of what you perceive; permit me to demonstrate by suggesting course corrections to the path you walk at present by what you have expressed. Meaning expands when you begin with lexical definitions.

God is not timeless for the absence of it but for His full containment thereof; He is absolutely all-encompassing and thus time is a function of His design operating within His hand as all things do.

God delineates, defines, and determines all things and thus the present progression of time persists with His express permission. There is no change but that to which the LORD may acquiesce in His abundance of mercy and grace.

If you believe that the will of the Almighty and Omnipotent One may somehow be infringed upon or diverted from its course, you are mistaken.

 

[lforrest]

Interesting 3rd paragraph.
Trying to understand it but it might be a personal revelation.
In which case,,,not everyone will understand it.

It originates from problems with the concept of eternity within a timeless existence. If something is truly timeless it should never change. If it does change then both states of being must be valid simultaneously.

For example the new heaven is accessable now, to those who believe in Jesus. Yet nothing unclean will enter it. That means it is inaccessable to Satan an his angels. But we have scriptures showing evil spirits currently in the courts of heaven.

It is like the sealed word opened in revelation, has created two separate spiritual realities that exist in parallel.

 

[amigo de christo]

Plain words, people! Plain and simple words!

Was Paul alive before he was born? ... No!
But is he eternal? ... What Apostle wouldn't be?
But if eternal, then did he begin? ... Of course!

What is a Christian but one who follows Christ? And how do they do so but by His holy Life within them?

Jesus is the first-born of the resurrected, the first among the everlasting as a prototype for all men who would seek unity with the LORD in spirit and in truth.

Did Jesus exist before He was born? ... As surely as I did!
Was I alive before I was born? ... Only as an idea, as I had a child in mind before I begot him.

The Spirit of God is from eternal to eternal, but you would confuse the knitting of unblemished flesh and unblemished Spirit with some form of mysterious pre-existence nonsense?

If the questions don't make any more sense than the answers, you can tell the thing is not from the God of truth!

your reasoning is totally carnal no matter how plain you think it is .
This madness has to end . Your mind is doing everything it can to make void
truth .
If the questions or answers clearly promote doubt of truth , ITS false .
And no man can go around
the fact that it was wri tten that The WORD was GOD . nor that JESUS himself said I AM the FIRST and the last .

 

[lforrest]

The lack of substantiation should tell you enough of the validity of this interpretation you hold some degree of faith in.

All things lie within spectrums, scales, balances, and all manner of equipment and function unseen by man but through the direct revelations of the Spirit.

I can attest to the inaccuracy of your intuition of what you perceive; permit me to demonstrate by suggesting course corrections to the path you walk at present by what you have expressed. Meaning expands when you begin with lexical definitions.

God is not timeless for the absence of it but for His full containment thereof; He is absolutely all-encompassing and thus time is a function of His design operating within His hand as all things do.

God delineates, defines, and determines all things and thus the present progression of time persists with His express permission. There is no change but that to which the LORD may acquiesce in His abundance of mercy and grace.

If you believe that the will of the Almighty and Omnipotent One may somehow be infringed upon or diverted from its course, you are mistaken.

God being outside of time is not a problem, it fits perfectly with how he is described in scripture.

 

[amigo de christo]

Easy Keithr

There are two replies that will satisfy your question.

1. When Jesus was on earth,,,He was also a man.
Thus THE FATHER IS GREATER THAN I is most certainly true.

2. There is a heirarchy in the Godhead/Trinity.
God Father is the being from which the other two Persons are generated....
Generated, not created.

The Son always was with God as God's Word.
Just as John states in John 1:1
The Word or Logos of God cannot be separated from Him....The logos was always with God.
He just became flesh at a certain point in time.
Just as John states in John 1:14

THE WORD WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD...
AND THE WORD BECAME FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US.

Those that understand the Trinity have no problem with ANY verse that is referring to Jesus.
Those that do not care to accept the Trinity will look for any verse that SEEMS to contradict the Trinity.

Now look at these verses:
Every verse must be taken into consideration....
The NT must be reconciled.
These verses clearly state that Jesus is God.




Titus 2:9-10
9 Urge bondslaves to be subject to their own masters in everything, to be well-pleasing, not argumentative,
10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.

God is our savior.


John 20:28
28Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus is both Lord and God. And He did not correct Thomas.

Hebrews 1:8
8But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God,


The Son is referred to as God.


Titus 2:13
13Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Jesus is our great God and Savior.


2 Peter 1:1
1Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Jesus is our God and Savior.


John 1:18
18No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.

The only God...who is at the right side of the Father.....(God is at the right hand of God).


Romans 9.5
5To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all,

Jesus is God over everything.


1 John 5:20
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus is the true God.


Acts 20:28
28 "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

God has blood?
God Father has no blood.
God Son has blood which was shed for believers.

This is what they do not do . THEY do not take in consideration that EVERY verse must be taken into consideration .
THEY omit verses that contradict what they beleive .
But i know what i know and that by g race . IT clearly states The Word was GOD
And yes JESUS did say the FATHER is greater than I . Yet they use the latter to try and DENY the DIETY OF CHRIST .
WHEN even JESUS himself says and did say I AM THE FIRST and the last .
THE best thing this people can do is , BELIEVE WHAT IS WRITTEN , if even you do not understand it at the first .
Understanding comes in time the more one reads that bible and continues in pr ayer to GOD .
BUT These heed men whose motto was LET US BE TRUE and GOD A LIAR as they twist and omit certain words
and passages to fit their own lie .

 

[XtraPercept]

God being outside of time is not a problem, it fits perfectly with how he is described in scripture.

It is the belief that something may exist outside of God which leads many to such deep confusion.

your reasoning is totally carnal no matter how plain you think it is .
This madness has to end . Your mind is doing everything it can to make void
truth .
If the questions or answers clearly promote doubt of truth , ITS false .
And no man can go around
the fact that it was wri tten that The WORD was GOD . nor that JESUS himself said I AM the FIRST and the last .

With what in particular do you disagree that you call my reasoning carnal? Which of my words upset you?

 

[amigo de christo]

It is the belief that something may exist outside of God which leads many to such deep confusion.



With what in particular do you disagree that you call my reasoning carnal? Which of my words upset you?

pretty much the whole thing .
Paul was not eternal , not before HE had been given ETERNAL LIFE by JESUS CHRIST .
You are trying to use words to make v oid the words JESUS HIMSELF said .
To make it seem as though JESUS is not WHO HE IS .
You aint fooling me .
Totally carnal reasoning is all i seen in that post .

 

[saved by grace 101]

This is what they do not do . THEY do not take in consideration that EVERY verse must be taken into consideration .

Indeed
Jesus said there was only one TRUE God, the Father
He also said God was His God whilst on earth and when he'd returned to Heaven
Paul said we only have one God, the father and one Lord, Jesus Christ
Paul also stated though everything had been put under Christ it is clear this did not include God Himself
He also stated when everything had been defeated, including the last enemy death, Christ would be made subject to God
Should these verses, and others also be taken into consideration?

 

[amigo de christo]

The lack of substantiation should tell you enough of the validity of this interpretation you hold some degree of faith in.

All things lie within spectrums, scales, balances, and all manner of equipment and function unseen by man but through the direct revelations of the Spirit.

I can attest to the inaccuracy of your intuition of what you perceive; permit me to demonstrate by suggesting course corrections to the path you walk at present by what you have expressed. Meaning expands when you begin with lexical definitions.

God is not timeless for the absence of it but for His full containment thereof; He is absolutely all-encompassing and thus time is a function of His design operating within His hand as all things do.

God delineates, defines, and determines all things and thus the present progression of time persists with His express permission. There is no change but that to which the LORD may acquiesce in His abundance of mercy and grace.

If you believe that the will of the Almighty and Omnipotent One may somehow be infringed upon or diverted from its course, you are mistaken.

You love carn al reasonsing
Its why you leaped so fast on anothers writing on another post
that began with DEFINTIONS . OH yeah i do watch folks on this site .
You love carnal wisdom . You love the way man explains things .

 

[XtraPercept]

pretty much the whole thing .
Paul was not eternal , not before HE had been given ETERNAL LIFE by JESUS CHRIST .
You are trying to use words to make v oid the words JESUS HIMSELF said .
To make it seem as though JESUS is not WHO HE IS .
You aint fooling me .
Totally carnal reasoning is all i seen in that post .

You are correct, I am not fooling you. I speak truth in alignment with the Spirit Whom I serve.

You see your own reflection because you have set limits on your understanding through the doctrines to which you adhere.

If I speak a true word and the listener chooses a distorted definition, my conscience remains unstained.

 

[GodsGrace]

It originates from problems with the concept of eternity within a timeless existence. If something is truly timeless it should never change. If it does change then both states of being must be valid simultaneously.

Agreed.
And, in fact, God does not change because He is timeless.

Do you understand eternity and timelessness to be the same?
I'd say yes.
With eternity,,,time disappears - there is no "time".

For example the new heaven is accessable now, to those who believe in Jesus. Yet nothing unclean will enter it. That means it is inaccessable to Satan an his angels. But we have scriptures showing evil spirits currently in the courts of heaven.

It is like the sealed word opened in revelation, has created two separate spiritual realities that exist in parallel.

Right...but I don't believe I can understand this as well as you do.

 

[XtraPercept]

You love carn al reasonsing
Its why you leaped so fast on anothers writing on another post
that began with DEFINTIONS . OH yeah i do watch folks on this site .
You love carnal wisdom . You love the way man explains things .

Friend, you are confused! I am not your enemy. I serve the God whose name you wield as a bludgeon, whose servant you demean as carnal. I do not lie. I love my God and I worship Him and His Son, Jesus Christ, who lives now and forever at the right hand of the Father.

My highest love and deepest devotion lie exclusively with the Word.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is the belief that something may exist outside of God which leads many to such deep confusion.



With what in particular do you disagree that you call my reasoning carnal? Which of my words upset you?

What makes you think the other member is upset?
Or confused...or any of the other adjectives you also used on me.

The other member is not upset...he's al cool as can be.

We just do not agree with you XtraPercept.