Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today

[Grailhunter]

Who were the spiritual seed before Calvary? Ethnic Israel or spiritual elect Israel?

Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our children!

 

[Davy]

Every believer, both Jew and Gentile alike, get all the promises made to Abraham and Israel? That’s great, I would agree with that.

No, I didn't say all... the promises. Jesus promised His 12 Apostles they would each sit as king over one of the 12 tribes of Israel. The rest of us cannot usurp that. See Mark 10:35-40...

Mark 10:40
40 But to sit on My right hand and on My left hand is not Mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
KJV

Yes, I agree with you on this also, there is a correlation between the dimensions of New Jerusalem and the Holy of Holies. It’s a perfect cube.

I had one person try to tell me that New Jerusalem is in the shape of a pyramid, saying a pyramid can also have equal length, breadth, and height. He went on about the Jews building the pyramids in Egypt before the exodus and how God gave them that design but I didn’t agree with any of what he had to say.

The Holy of Holies of Solomon's temple is the model, the one in Revelation 21 is simply going to be a lot... bigger.

I studied a book written by Peter Tompkins called Secrets Of the Great Pyramid, which came out in the '70's. A newer edition is available too. It showed how the Great Pyramid could not have been built by the Egyptians, but that the Egyptians tried to copy it in their later attempts at building pyramids. No Egyptian artifacts or markings were ever originally found in it. And even today, the real entrance has still yet to be found, early archeologists dug a hole to access it.

Dr. Robert M. Schoch, professor of geology at the University of Boston, determined the weathering on the Great Sphinx stone enclosure was from water erosion, which means the Sphinx had to have been built back when the Sahara was a tropical zone, and that pre-dates Egyptian history by a long, long time, back to at least 10,000 B.C. he suggested, maybe even earlier. Prior to Dr. Schoch's data, there had been no geologist that looked at the weathering of the Great Sphinx enclosure. Egyptologists, which is not a science, wrongly assumed the weathering was from sand erosion. Still today they reject Dr. Schoch's evidence while over two hundred of Schoch's geologist colleagues agree with his data of water erosion as basic and clear.

 

[WPM]

Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Let His blood be on us and our children!

You cannot seem to answer any questions straight. Why is that? It seems like you're aware that your doctrine does not add up. That is why you're so uncomfortable.

 

[Grailhunter]

You cannot seem to answer any questions straight. Why is that? It seems like you're aware that your doctrine does not add up. That is why you're so uncomfortable.

You present scriptures that do not say Christians are Isreal with a question mark
They do not say Christians are Israel and I have already said that and that answers them all.
I have given you plenty of time to present a scripture that says Christians are Israel and you cannot do it because your beliefs are not biblical.
You could post the whole Bible but none of the scriptures would say Christians are Israel. You defeat yourself.
It is a very simple thing and you cannot do because your beliefs are not biblical.
Imaginative interpretations leads to an imaginary religion.
Please stop wasting my time, no need to post until you can find a scripture that specifically says Christians are Isreal.

 

[WPM]

You present scriptures that do not say Christians are Isreal with a question mark
They do not say Christians are Isreal and I have already said that and that answers them all.
I have given you plenty of time to present a scripture that says Christians are Isreal and you cannot do it because your beliefs are not biblical.
You could post the whole Bible but none of the scriptures would say Christians are Isreal. You defeat yourself.
It is a very simple thing and you cannot do because your beliefs are not biblical.
Imaginative interpretations leads to an imaginary religion.
Please stop wasting my time, no need to post until you can find a scripture that specifically says Christians are Isreal.

LOL. I did. You such cannot handle it because you have been taught wrong. You have not been able to address one argument, one question or one post yet. All you have is your evasive fly-by avoidances. I wonder why? Your theology is exposed by the sacred pages. I refer you back to multiple avoided posts.

It seems like you are way out of your depth. You seem incapable of exegeting one single passage.

 

[WPM]

This more relates to the body of Christ.....
Now if I were to say we are individual members of the body of Christ....I can produce scriptures that actually say that.... You present your fantasy and try to push that on the scriptures. Learn what you believe from the scriptures instead of making something up and try to twist the meaning of the scriptures.

12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For [a]by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason [b]any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason [c]any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, [d]it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we [e]deem less honorable, [f]on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no [g]division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is [h]honored, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it.
1st Corinthians 12:12-27

1. How many peoples of God are there (1 Peter 2:10 & Hebrews 4:9)?
2. How many households of faith are there (Galatians 6:11)?
3. How many spiritual seeds are there (Galatians 3:13-14, 16-17)?
4. Is there “one new man” spiritually today or “twain” (Ephesians 2:15)?
5. How many sheep folds does Christ (the Shepherd) possess? Did Jesus not say: “there shall be one fold, and one shepherd”?
6. Is the term “the circumcision” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11)?
7. Is the term “the Jews” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 2:25-29)?
8. Is the term “Israel” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 11:17, Romans 11:24-25, Galatians 6:15-16 and Ephesians 2:10-19)?
9. Is God’s chosen “nation” today a spiritual heavenly nation or a physical earthly nation (Deuteronomy 32:21, Matthew 21 42-44, Romans 10:19-21 and 1 Peter 2:9-10)?
10. Is the term “children of Abraham” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 4:11, Romans 4:13-15, Romans 4:16-18, Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:7-9, Galatians 3:12-14, Galatians 3:16 and Galatians 3:26-29)?

 

[WPM]

If you are going to quote scripture, find the one that says Christians are Isreal.

Interwoven corporate body? Like the body of Christ?

Anyone who does not put their trust in Christ is of their father the devil. Stop attributing God's favor to people that hate Jesus Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL. I did. You such cannot handle it because you have been taught wrong. You have not been able to address one argument, one question or one post yet. All you have is your evasive fly-by avoidances. I wonder why? Your theology is exposed by the sacred pages. I refer you back to multiple avoided posts.

It seems like you are way out of your depth. You seem incapable of exegeting one single passage.

You never presented a scripture that say Christians are Isreal and you cannot present a scripture that says Christians are Israel because it does not exist.

 

[Grailhunter]

1. How many peoples of God are there (1 Peter 2:10 & Hebrews 4:9)?
2. How many households of faith are there (Galatians 6:11)?
3. How many spiritual seeds are there (Galatians 3:13-14, 16-17)?
4. Is there “one new man” spiritually today or “twain” (Ephesians 2:15)?
5. How many sheep folds does Christ (the Shepherd) possess? Did Jesus not say: “there shall be one fold, and one shepherd”?
6. Is the term “the circumcision” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Philippians 3:3 and Colossians 2:11)?
7. Is the term “the Jews” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 2:25-29)?
8. Is the term “Israel” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 11:17, Romans 11:24-25, Galatians 6:15-16 and Ephesians 2:10-19)?
9. Is God’s chosen “nation” today a spiritual heavenly nation or a physical earthly nation (Deuteronomy 32:21, Matthew 21 42-44, Romans 10:19-21 and 1 Peter 2:9-10)?
10. Is the term “children of Abraham” spiritually related to Gentiles in the New Testament (Romans 4:11, Romans 4:13-15, Romans 4:16-18, Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:7-9, Galatians 3:12-14, Galatians 3:16 and Galatians 3:26-29)?

You present scriptures that do not say Christians are Isreal with a question mark
They do not say Christians are Isreal and I have already said that and that answers them all.
I have given you plenty of time to present a scripture that says Christians are Isreal and you cannot do it because your beliefs are not biblical.
You could post the whole Bible but none of the scriptures would say Christians are Isreal. You defeat yourself.
It is a very simple thing and you cannot do because your beliefs are not biblical.
Imaginative interpretations leads to an imaginary religion.
Please stop wasting my time, no need to post until you can find a scripture that specifically says Christians are Isreal.

 

[Grailhunter]

Anyone who does not put their trust in Christ is of their father the devil. Stop attributing God's favor to people that hate Jesus Christ.

I have total trust in Yeshua.

 

[WPM]

You present scriptures that do not say Christians are Isreal with a question mark
They do not say Christians are Isreal and I have already said that and that answers them all.
I have given you plenty of time to present a scripture that says Christians are Isreal and you cannot do it because your beliefs are not biblical.
You could post the whole Bible but none of the scriptures would say Christians are Isreal. You defeat yourself.
It is a very simple thing and you cannot do because your beliefs are not biblical.
Imaginative interpretations leads to an imaginary religion.
Please stop wasting my time, no need to post until you can find a scripture that specifically says Christians are Isreal.

Your MO is avoidance. You cannot address any post, you cannot rebut any argument, and you won't answer any question. That is because you have nothing in the NT. It is time to move from the OT to the NT.

 

[WPM]

I have total trust in Yeshua.

Does Christ-rejecting Israel?

 

[Grailhunter]

Your MO is avoidance. You cannot address any post, you cannot rebut any argument, and you won't answer any question. That is because you have nothing in the NT. It is time to move from the OT to the NT.

No your MO is avoidance. I am direct and honest. You cannot produce the scripture, yet you keep on talking fantasies.

 

[Grailhunter]

Does Christ-rejecting Israel?

The topic of Israel does not come up much during Yeshua's ministry because it did not exist at that time.
If it did I would think Yeshua would not condemn the late kingdom of Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Still and again, nothing that says that specifically Christianity is the new Israel.
If it were true, it would be easy enough to say.
The Jews failed and kingdoms of Israel fell, do we want to be part of that?

Apparently, you didn't even read the scriptures I posted, so what is the reason I should continue discussing this with you? I don't see any reason to do so unless you actually address the scriptures I'm using to support my view.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No your MO is avoidance. I am direct and honest. You cannot produce the scripture, yet you keep on talking fantasies.

When we produce the scriptures, you ignore them and don't address them. You are not someone that anyone can take seriously because you refuse to address any challenges to your beliefs and refuse to exegete any scripture.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Stop playing slow. Check the Op. Address it. No Dispie here has done that. I assume that is because it is watertight.

They know they have nothing to refute it and that's why they just play games and go out of their way to avoid doing so.

 

[Grailhunter]

Apparently, you didn't even read the scriptures I posted, so what is the reason I should continue discussing this with you? I don't see any reason to do so unless you actually address the scriptures I'm using to support my view.

Unless the scripture says specifically that Christians are the Israel or the new Israel.......I say non of them say what you are trying to promote. That covers it all. But you right kinda.....If you cannot produce a scripture that specifically says that Christians are the new Israel.....nothing left to discuss.

 

[Grailhunter]

When we produce the scriptures, you ignore them and don't address them. You are not someone that anyone can take seriously because you refuse to address any challenges to your beliefs and refuse to exegete any scripture.

I don't ignore them I have read them and have noted over and over again that what you are saying is not in the scriptures you present.....that covers all of them.

 

[WPM]

I don't ignore them I have read them and have noted over and over again that what you are saying is not in the scriptures you present.....that covers all of them.

Hosea 1:10-11 foretold:

the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.​

This is a very powerful, pivotal and enlightening prophecy. It is predicting the ingathering of the Gentiles into the Israel of God. Hosea is looking forward to the new covenant period where the Gentile would enter into covenant relationship with Almighty God and as a result Jewish believers. True Israel is predicted here to grow to a mighty number (as the “sand of the sea”). How would this happen? It would happen by the conversion of countless foreigners who were once outside of God’s special covenant of grace with national Israel. It would see countless millions of blinded heathens coming to faith in Israel’s Messiah.

The children of Israel would no longer be limited to ethnic Jews. They would be joined in the camp of Israel with believing Gentiles who would become “the sons of the living God.” This reading confirms: “in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.”

What a transformation! What a turn around. The sons of the living God – true Israel – would now include Jew and Gentiles alike. This occurred with the earthly ministry of Christ. He was indeed the “one head” that was anticipated that all sinners would give their allegiance to. Through the cross, there is no separation between Old Testament saints and New Testament saints. In fact it has been totally demolished because of Calvary.

Hosea 2:23 dovetails with this prediction:

And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.​

The Israel of God is expressly shown to not be restricted to the physical earthly nation of Israel or any other physical nation, as of the flesh, but rather to the spiritual seed of Abraham – the spiritual Israel that is born from above. The early disciples were faithful Israel functioned in the covenant promises pertaining to Israel, including extending out the salvation to the nations. The Abrahamic promises, and many other Old Testament prophecies were realized in the advance of the new covenant congregation of God (ekklesia).

Those who were aliens to God’s grace and heathen by nature have been assimilated into God’s Israel and become “the children of the living God.” There is no higher designation that man could possess. The personal titles that are used show us that we are looking at a spiritually regenerated people from the Gentiles who were enemies of God (“not my people”) and are now the people of God.

Paul addresses these Old Testament prophecies in his great election discourse in Romans 9. He applies these to the enlightenment of the Gentiles and their being brought into the New Testament Church. He shows how true Israel has expanded out to embrace countless heathens. In perfect fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy, the Gentiles have been brought into full union and communion with God, on the same basis as Israel’s remnant community, and have become a part of the spiritual seed of Abraham, through faith in Christ and His atoning sacrifice.

Paul teaches in Romans 9:22-26,

What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee (Hosea 2:23), I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God (Hosea 1:10).​

Paul uses Hosea to show how God's heart has always been to expand His mercy and adopt those who were alienated, bringing both Jews and Gentiles together into one spiritual body of believers. Central to Paul’s “remnant” theology teaching is the integration of the Gentiles into faithful Israel. He demonstrates how a large influx of Gentiles would come into the covenant family. True Israel has expanded far and wide. The spiritual blessings and promises that were near exclusively restricted to natural Israelites have now been imparted to the Gentiles by faith. Paul reinforces his argument by applying old covenant promises and Israeli terminologies to the new covenant international assembly.

The overwhelmingly Gentile Church is now:

1. The “children of the living God.”
2. His “beloved” possession.
3. And are intimately known by God as “my people.”

The passages that Paul references here demonstrates that the Gentiles have been integrated into the camp of Israel. Israel has expanded since the cross, as Abraham was promised back in Genesis, to incorporate converted Gentiles from all nations.

As G. E. Ladd writes, “the people of the Messiah are the true people of God, continuous with the Israel of the Old Testament.”