You are a self-confessed theologian who cannot answer the most basic of biblical questions. Sorry, I do not buy into all the self-promotion.
Biblical proof that we the New Testament Church are true Israel today
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
God uses the terms “Israel,” “circumcision,” “Jews,” Jerusalem, Zion (Sion) and “children of the Abraham” in both a natural earthly sense and a spiritual heavenly sense in Scripture. When He uses them in a natural sense He is talking specifically about the natural Hebrew descendant; when He uses them in a spiritual context He is referring exclusively of the elect of God – God’s true people, those that have entered into salvation by simple faith.
God has joined believing Jews and Gentiles from this New Testament era together with believing Jews and Gentiles from the Old Testament era and made them one in Christ. You see them both being joined together into one spiritual entity.
Mere Israeli blood never saved any man in Scripture, or out of Scripture. Those who attribute God’s favor to those who reject Jesus Christ and the new birth experience have absolutely no understanding of God’s plan of salvation in His Word. Right from the beginning, Christ has always been the focus of man’s hope in the Old Testament. Christ was the only hope of man in the New Testament. There never was, and there never will be, any salvation for any human being outside of the Lord Jesus Christ.
There is only one fold. Dispies have double vision. They cannot see right. They duplicate everything they see in the sacred text to justify their false teaching.
There are no words that exemplify the union Christ made between the old covenant saints and the new covenant believers than what Jesus told to His Jewish followers prior to the cross, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
Who was God going to unite us to? Was it Christ-rejecting Jews in the Middle east or was it faithful remnant Israel?
We have been grafted into the faithful remnant of believing Israel. We are now one with them. There is no racial distinction any more or apartheid amongst the people of God. God looks at the Church as one flock, one fold and one people.
Union with Christ is an organic relationship that brings us into a tightly interwoven corporate body. A person cannot be saved except they are in union with Christ. Being in union with Christ brings us into union with God’s people.
Christ was simply informing these Jewish believers that grace was going to be widened outside of their ethnic race. The Gentiles were about to be brought into the same unitary fold of grace as the Jewish believers – on equal terms. The mentioning of two groupings within the body didn't indicate "two folds" any more than references to male and female, rich and poor, free and bond, Jew and Gentile represented multiple folds amongst the people of God. Rather it simply shows the variety of members within the one godly fold.
Jesus said, in John 10:1, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.”
Let us be under no allusion, one can only be part of the sheepfold by embracing the Shepherd – Jesus Christ. There is no other way in. Mere Jewish birth in no way qualifies a person to be part of the flock. Favor with God has never been purely by race, but by grace, through faith.
The continuation of the believing Israeli flock, and its morphing into the New Testament congregation, confirmed the expansion of faithful Israel in the new covenant period. It also explains the Israeli identity of the new covenant people of God and demonstrates the sense of continuity that existed between both covenant eras. Gentiles were now to be corralled into faithful Israel in extraordinary numbers. They trusted in Israel’s Messiah, they joined the old covenant flock, and became the New Testament people of God. This was a radical overhaul for even the most open-minded of Christ’s disciples. We saw that in their parochial response to Christ’s kingdom teaching in Acts 1:6 and with their struggle in the book of Acts to come to terms with accommodating Gentiles joining the congregation (ekklesia) on an equal basis to that of Jews.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Is Dispies a desert?
Was He talking about flying saucer people as the other fold? Or the Gentiles?
Again, there is nothing about ancient Israel we want to share in or model after. Israel is a model of failure and disobedience and doom. Why be joined with or equated with failure and damnation, physcial or spiritual?
Hey! What about the New Jerusalem? Maybe you could focus on that?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Are spiritual things and realities just fiction in your mind? Do you not understand anything beyond physical things and what you can see with your physical eyes?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
The spiritual is wonderful and real....But the concept is the playground for imaginative minds.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. ...1st John 4:1-6
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. Matthew 7:15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. 2nd Corinthians 11:13-15
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 2nd Timothy 4:3
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, you just disregard spiritual things just because of false teachers? You don't need to ignore or deny spiritual truths just because there is also spiritual falsehood being taught. It's because of your carnal way of thinking that you deny things like the existence of spiritual Israel and the spiritual kingdom of Christ that we are in right now.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
That is not what I said....I said....>The spiritual is wonderful and real....But the concept is the playground for imaginative minds.
Also we need to be cautious of false teachings.
... and how do we determine sound doctrine? Through the explicit teaching of the Word of God. This is what you are running from.
No. It is dangerous anti-biblical teaching that suggests God has got 2 peoples.
Stop avoiding. What spiritual fold that Christ shepherded over before the cross have we Gentiles been brought into today? And, who resided there before the cross?
What spiritual fold that Christ shepherded over before the cross have we Gentiles been brought into today? And, who resided there before the cross?
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
You guys are addressing the topic of Israel all wrong. Israel is important, the Old Testament is important. You should be exploring the reason for Israel, the reason for the Old Covenant.
Why didn't Yahweh send Yeshua to Adam and Eve after they were cast out of paradise?
Why did He wait for thousands of years?
It all has to do with the nature of men. Mostly men. Women were degraded to the level of property.....powerless.
Men were dominating, self-centered, desiring power and wealth and leaving corruption and misery in their wake. Men wanted to dominate women socially, physically, and sexually.
All through the Old Testament and into the New Testament men sought and fought for world domination. That is not the purpose of humans. Men did not strive for God to dominate the world. If you remember Yahweh was opposed to installing kings.
The purpose of the Old Covent was to show us the need for God, the need for Yeshua. Yahweh knew that Israel would fail and provide us with an example of what failure looks like. Most of the storyline of the Old Testament is littered with intrigue, violent atrocities and failure of faith. Israel as a model is a picture of failure. The motto of the story is---->Don't be like Israel.
Then Christianity was horribly persecuted and hated by the rulers of the world, the Romans for nearly 300 years. Then due to a few miracles Constantine befriend Christiantiy. Did Constantine learn anything from these miracles. He learned the beliefs, sort of.....He did not learn that spirit and character are as important as beliefs. World domination was the character of the Romans and he wanted to dominate the world with one belief. And Christianity then had the power to do so.
The problem was that some of their beliefs and doctrines were seriously flawed.
When the time came Yahweh decided it was time for man to learn from their mistakes. To do that Yahweh begot a Son to teach us that and to save us. But men are slow learners because their nature is to be self-absorbed. And with that Christianity took on the character of Rome. Corrupt and violent they committed the worst atrocities known to man. And again, this was men doing this, not women. Men are really slow learners and to make matters worse, Christianity developed a negative attitude towards education.
The religion of the world ran by the uneducated and men of poor character. They developed a hatred for sex and women. And so it was women were sexually tortured during the witch-hunts. Believing sex and nudity was dirty, nasty and sinful of the devil....but because men wanted sex and women....women became the temptresses of the devil. Temptresses of good men, leading men to perdition? LOL. Sex was evil and virginity and celibacy was pure and holy. Marrige and families were of little importance to the Catholic Church. These beliefs still haunt the Catholic Church to this day. What a mess!
Then came the Protestant reform.....One of the most significant godly things to happen. Not perfect, but much better. They still had a poor attitude towards sex, but they embraced marriage and made church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married. The Protestants was the first Christian group to develop a focus on the family.
Today Christianity still retains some of the Catholic Church's false doctrines and are still struggling with the fact that women are equal members in Christianity.
So in summary; The reason for the Old Covenant was to show the poor nature of man and that God should be their primary desire. The Old Testament....ancient Israel brought us here and we are still learning from the failures of Israel.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Not true.
Modern Israel does not chase after false gods.
Build temples to false gods.
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