Blessed Are The Peacemakers

[David161099]

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
To me, this direct teaching from the lord is plain and clear.Can you tell me why anyone who supports a war, especially a war from a greater power over a weaker one, is allowed to call themselves a Christian?I don't care about politics of the here and now, I would like people to address the teachings of Jesus on this.

 

[Jordan]

David, I love the verse. We are to be peacemakers as much as we can. But every Christian does not have the same gift and/or calling.As for war...I hate wars...but...Ecclesiastes 3:8 - A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.Exodus 15:3 - The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.God uses war for corrections. At the same time, He hates it when his creatures loves war.Jeremiah 21:4 - Thus saith the LORD God of Israel; Behold, I will turn back the weapons of war that are in your hands, wherewith ye fight against the king of Babylon, and against the Chaldeans, which besiege you without the walls, and I will assemble them into the midst of this city.I hope this helps David. To confirm this David...Luke 22:36 - Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.It is OK to self defense.

 

[David161099]

How can the Peacemakers be blessed, but it's okay to be pro-war?Many times Jesus has qualified the old teachings and changed them. I found this site that lists all Jesus' teachings on no-violence.http://www.frimmin.com/faith/jesusnonviolence.htmlThese verses are all from Jesus, not the old testament.I don't have any barrow to push, it's just this great feeling from my heart or soul if you like, that Jesus taught against violence and war.Also I can't seperate it in my head, and think: "Oh that wacky Jesus and his hippy ways, surely he had forgotten the Old Testament". Those Pharisees were always challenging Jesus with the Old Testament, but he would then show them new wisdom and the living word. :study:I am still very confused at why this isn't clear to people? I don't believe it's just my opinion, I believe he either taught something or he didn't. That there wasn't any gray areas of his direct message of peace, love, forgiveness and repenting of sins/evil.

 

[Jordan]

If Christ went against violence, why did He tell His disciples to go buy a sword then, for Self-Defence. For Christ is God. His Father's Words never passed away. Even His only begotten Son Words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35)Matthew 5:17-18 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.Plot to kill and Self-Defense are two different things.Jag

 

[David161099]

I'm not sure if this board is for me....but I don't know where to go to find the answers.I'm trying to understand what Jesus and christianity is all about.If Christianity is all about violence and pro-war stuff, making the rich richer and middle class more comfortable.........Then my faith will defiately suffer.Why would Jesus be promoting violence, and then on the other hand healing people and caring for their souls and asking for them to repent their sins.Can you really feel holy and pure whilst hacking off the limbs of your enemy (Who Jesus tells you to love?). Shooting women and children, and destroying cultures, and somehow feel that you will gain God's approval for this?I am confused.......

 

[Jordan]

(David161099;24047)
I'm not sure if this board is for me....but I don't know where to go to find the answers.I'm trying to understand what Jesus and christianity is all about.If Christianity is all about violence and pro-war stuff, making the rich richer and middle class more comfortable.........Then my faith will defiately suffer.Why would Jesus be promoting violence, and then on the other hand healing people and caring for their souls and asking for them to repent their sins.Can you really feel holy and pure whilst hacking off the limbs of your enemy (Who Jesus tells you to love?). Shooting women and children, and destroying cultures, and somehow feel that you will gain God's approval for this?I am confused.......
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, don't be confused David. God wants us to have common sense.Committing a murder (lie in wait/plan to kill) and Self-Defense (to defend your friend and love ones that you love and yourself) are two different things. They both belong on a completely different category. Not on the same category.Would you not kill a thief at your house if your love ones are being attacked or raped that you may safe their life? (their soul) Do they not have the right to worship Christ? It's all about God wanting us to use common sense. We only have one chance in life...This board has been blessed by God. I will tell you that honestly. But if you feel that you don't belong here...then at least reconsider coming here if you decide to leave...we will miss you.Jag

 

[David161099]

Jag,I'm just trying to make sense of it.I think I'm letting other people's politics upset me. See we just had an election.I'm not one of these guys that blindly supports one party, and I don't equate my religion with like political parties and stuff.In Australia, they are all hopeless! Conservatives and lefties alike.Our Government, against teh will of the people supported George Bush's War on Terror. We have troops overseas.I just don't agree with it. With making war for any purpose, if it can be avoided. But we have these people who say they follow Christ, yet by their actually they are loyal to war mongerers.I guess I don't understand because as I said I'm not one to pick sides in Politics. I like to be for peace, justice and righteouness.

 

[Wakka]

Jesus isn't against common defense. God (Jesus) is the same in the old testament, as well as the new one. God never changes.I there are plenty of stories where God commanded His people to take arms against a nation.Show me a verse where God says it's wrong to take arms in self defense.

 

[David161099]

(Wakka;24054)
Show me a verse where God says it's wrong to take arms in self defense.
I wasn't talking about self defence, I'm talking about wars started for other reasons.

 

[AngelFive]

Hey David,I appreciate your thoughts. I feel that way myself. My heart goes out to all the young soldiers having to be faced with taking the life of another human being, seeing horrible things and then if not killed themselves or wounded having to come home to their families with horrific memories of what happens during war. I have friends who have served and now after their sacrifice they feel forgotten and they are left with their memories and many health problems. I honor their sacrifice and I pray that our Lord heal them.I think that we need to focus on PEACE...it is your calling to promote PEACE..that is why I feel you are so drawn to it.I am not against WAR, I take a stand for PEACE. You can't change people by warring over something but you can influence others when you stand for something.Focus all your energy on healing and peace and that is what will surround you...on a personal level. Think about if every single person shifted their focus to PEACE, LOVE and ACCEPTANCE. There would be no wars...but until that day comes...there will always be wars and rumors of wars.I think our abilities...mine and yours and all others who support peace is to take our ENERGY and create things that promote peace. Christ is the best EXAMPLE for this cause.Even when they were taking him captive..Peter cut off a soldier's ear to protect his MASTER..but then..HIS MASTER...picked up the ear and put it back on the soldier, he healed his enemy...and walked with them freely, he didn't fight back....Do you think that Soldier..had a change of heart? WHAT IF WE WOULD HAVE FORGIVEN THOSE WHO HURT OUR PEOPLE, WHAT KIND OF OUTCOME WOULD THAT HAVE LED TO, WHAT KIND OF EXAMPLE WOULD WE HAVE SET IF WE HAD PRAYER AND ASKED GOD TO HEAL OUR ENEMIES, DO YOU THINK WE COULD HAVE TURNED THE HEARTS OF MILLIONS TO CHRIST?Just something to think about.

 

[David161099]

Thanks Angelfive!I don't think god's intention was for his children to war with each other.

 

[lastsecman]

'The kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.''He that kills with the sword will die by the sword.'My opinion...War occurs because it is a sinful world we live in. We have to look at their intentions for making the war, which only God truly knows and can judge.And also sometimes it's God who decides to let the war happen, for His own purpose, which is far too complex that we need to know it.

 

[jkdjr25]

If I may step in for a moment I think I might be able to bring a bit of a different perspective on things. Just for clarification purposes let me say that I am a Christian.I think that a lot of times we get the laws for the individual confused with God's mandates for nations as a whole. As individuals we are to do our level best and adhere to God's Law as given to us, not only through the Old Testament, but the Lord Jesus Christ. As nations, God condones having an army for defense purposes and for purposes of going to war when it is morally justifiable.For example: if I, as an individual, were to take a life, even in self defense, then I would be guilty of murder in the eyes of God and would have to ask forgiveness for that sin.However if I was a soldier going to war to protect the lives of the men and women of my homeland, or to liberate a people from the opression of a dictator then it is expected of me to kill. The leaders of my nation have called upon me to do a job, and as a soldier it is my duty to God and country to see it done.Now whether or not the soldier needs to ask forgiveness for killing in the line of duty is another debate entirely.

 

[AngelFive]

(((Jkdjr25))) with loving respect, and appreciation for your thoughts here.My question to you is ..Isn't it the same thing, just on a much broader level?Self defense personally and self defense nationally..it's the same. When we war against another country their women and children are killed...who are in turn..really ourselves, considering WE ARE ONE. Do unto others as we would have them do unto us.. comes to my mind. It's a tough call, Isn't it? I recall the wars in the bible before Christ came..but after he came and defeated death...shouldn't it all have ended? What do you think?

 

[jkdjr25]

Not at all.. War and death will only truly end at His glorious return. Yes peace is preferable to war, but not if that peace comes with a price tag of compromise of our princples. I detest real world violence with a passion; however I also understand that it is necessary at times in order to protect someone or a group of someones. It is regretable and tragic, but due to the nature of man it is also an unpleasant and necessary reality.

 

[AngelFive]

That's what confuses me. I feel like when we accept Christ as OUR Lord and Savior, we become like Him. He didn't kill others...even to protect others...whom He loved more than we could ever imagine. So if we are to be like Him shouldn't we be willing to die...For HIM...just like He died for US? In taking a stand for peace many will die physically and have been killed over the years. But Christ resurrected to show us that death is only a moment....Life is eternal.I also think of Moses...He didn't war...he did what God told him to do and Nature took care of what had to be done. God took care of them, because they looked to Him to do so. Couldn't that very same thing with nature be possible to today? I just think maybe if everyone like...OUR LEADERS would publicly ask God to take care of it...Maybe He just might do so...MAYBE He wants to be asked by someone who "BELIEVES" he is capable of handling it.Thanks for your response, you gave me alot to think about this morning.Love to you...

 

[jkdjr25]

Joseph made war at God's direction. So did Saul, King David, King Jehosophat, numerous people throught the Bible did so. Its one of those faith things. I have a lot of respect for people who can stand up for themselves and ask hard questions. You've given me things to think about as well.It comes down to searching your heart and praying about it as an individual really. I think God can and does bless nations that go to war for the right reasons in His eyes.

 

[HammerStone]

The statement is blessed are the peacemakers and not blessed are the pacifists. I know that's almost a cynical view of the statement that Christ made, but we have to take the Bible as a collective whole versus running away with one verse we don't quite understand.Exodus 20:13
Thou shalt not kill.
We all know this as one of the 10 Commandments. We even have a recording of the first murder. I will say that people misunderstand this to be killing in any form, which is clearly incorrect from the verses that come both before and after this.Numbers 35:16-24
And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to deathAnd if he smite him with throwing a stone, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.Or if he smite him with an hand weapon of wood, wherewith he may die, and he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death.But if he thrust him of hatred, or hurl at him by laying of wait, that he die;Or in enmity smite him with his hand, that he die: he that smote him shall surely be put to death; for he is a murderer: the revenger of blood shall slay the murderer, when he meeteth him.But if he thrust him suddenly without enmity, or have cast upon him any thing without laying of wait,Or with any stone, wherewith a man may die, seeing him not, and cast it upon him, that he die, and was not his enemy, neither sought his harm:Then the congregation shall judge between the slayer and the revenger of blood according to these judgments:
I spaced this out not to insult anyone's intelligence, but for them to see what murder is. Obviously, if we're not to kill under any circumstances, there's a bit of a problem because God contradicted himself with Exodus 20 and Numbers 35, Deuteronomy 19, and Joshua 20. Please note that it was said 3 times just as it was said 3 times within Numbers 35.Now let's fastforward to Christ.Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Nothing changed in the way of the law when Christ came. He came to fulfill. A murderer is still a sinner, it's still a sin to not honor thy father and mother, and it's still a sin to break any of the other commandments. The difference now is that we have the one and all time sacrifice through which we can be forgiven. A murder even can repent if it's truly in his heart, and God knows that of course.Getting to what Christ said, it's the same as the OT that Jags has pointed out.Ecclesiastes 3:8
A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
A peacemaker can go to war when that is the only option. A peacemaker makes peace until it's absolutely impossible to do so. That's not a pacifist. One does have to make peace all the time to be a peacemaker. A peacemaker can settle an argument one time and perhaps be a part of the argument in the next. I have several friends that are peacemakers and wonderful mediators because Father has blessed them that route.Getting down to the world of today, there are good people who believe it just the same as there are good people who believe the wars of today are unjust. It's a personal decision based on your understanding of what God has told you. Suggesting that the Bible is for peace is true, but there are times of war in it just as they are times of peace.

 

[David161099]

So Jesus was using a kinda narrow meaning of the world peacemaker?

 

[AngelFive]

Thanks for posting the scripture. I suppose this is why so many disagree and are confused about things. I think that it really does boil down to a personal choice within each person. I think only God knows our intent and our heart in such difficult matters. I am certainly not one to judge, I am here to learn, to encourage and to heal.In my heart I believe Christ came to show us what Peace truly is..to fullfill and to teach us how to love one another, even those who may hurt us. It's taught me to pray for those who hurt me.I pray you all be blessed with much wisdom and understanding.