Blood-purged Conscience (II)

[Netchaplain]

It is not the work of the Holy Spirit to purify (the Spirit during His work of rebirth applies the Blood and the life of Christ (Col 3:4—NC), but to testify to the Blood of the Lord Jesus as having purified. The Spirit comes to the saints as the witness of their cleanness, not as the producer of it. That the Lord Jesus has already forever effected, which is the work of the Spirit’s testimony to the believer’s conscience. In this He delights to declare the honor of the Lord Jesus. Just therefore, as we simply receive His testimony, will we know our conscience to be really purged. “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Heb 9:14).

It is not to the great doctrines of election and the like, or to the unfailing of God’s purpose, that the Holy Spirit specifically points the conscience in order to its purging, but expressly to the Father’s estimate of the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. For other precious purposes the Spirit does discourse to the saint on these blessed doctrines; but for the special purpose of giving and maintaining a purged conscience, He invariably directs the soul to the Lord Jesus’ Blood, as provided by the Father’s infinite love for that very end.

The present portion therefore of the saint is to be ever in the “true tabernacle” (Heb 8:2—NC) in the presence of the Father, and to be there with a purged conscience. He is never an outside worshipper, nor and uncleansed one. Man’s best efforts at worship only keep him at a distance from the living God: ordinances, however precious in their place, have the like tendency, just as they are used to bring nigh. This accounts for the ceaseless and restless labor of those who trust to them; for they heap burdens on the conscience in the vain effort to relieve it, and entangle themselves the more in the trammels from which they struggle to be free. It is the Blood of the Lord Jesus alone which gives liberty and an everlasting home in the happy presence of the Father.

Here, then, we have two marvelous blessings connected with the priesthood of the Lord Jesus: the first true access into the holies, and abiding there as our true place of fellowship and worship; the other, perpetual purification of conscience through the Blood of the Lord Jesus, even on the mercy-seat itself. It is on these two established privileges of the believer that our fellowship and worship depend.

Our Father is not only jealous of his own personal holiness, and so provides for the personal cleanness of those whom He brings into His presence; but He is also jealous of the purity of heaven, his dwelling place; and hence heaven also is purified by the Blood, and the entrance of sinners into it may in no wise defile it. And it greatly assures the priestly worshippers to find that they themselves are purified by that same Blood, which thus preserves the purity of God’s own home and throne. One purification avails for all—God’s throne, temple, High Priest and God’s priests!

For can we really think of heaven itself being our proper place of fellowship and worship, without fearing that we may carry defilement into it? Do we not feel that we should tarnish and soil those pure and heavenly courts? Well, our Father has met this fear too: the true holies cannot be defiled, for they have been purified forever by the Blood of the Lord Jesus. Thus has the Father prepared us for His presence, and His presence for us. All is done. Every plea that unbelief can put forth for shrinking into the darkness which it loves is disposed of forever by the effectual Blood!

“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which He has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh; And having a High Priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water” (Heb 10:19-22).

- J L Harris



“Son-ship represents growth unto fullness and maturity. It is quite a good thing to be a babe while babyhood lasts, but it is a very bad thing to be a babe when that period is past. While son-ship is inherent in birth, in the New Testament sense son-ship is growth to maturity. With this growth comes the greater fullness of the Lord Jesus and the abundant spiritual wealth unto which we were saved. It is a matter not so much of that from which we were saved, as of that unto which we were saved. The grand conclusion of the new creation is ‘the revealing of the sons of God (Rom. 8:19).”

- T A S


“It is one thing to drop off or renounce certain things, and quite another to be engrossed with the right thing. Monks renounce much, but they are not occupied with the glorified Lord Jesus Christ. It must be not only ‘forgetting those things which are behind,’ but also reaching out unto the things that are before. It is that which you give yourself to, not what you have abandoned, that colors you and which imparts character to you.”

-J B S

 

[skypair]

It is not the work of the Holy Spirit to purify (the Spirit during His work of rebirth applies the Blood and the life of Christ (Col 3:4—NC), but to testify to the Blood of the Lord Jesus as having purified. … Just therefore, as we simply receive His testimony, will we know our conscience to be really purged. “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” (Heb 9:14).

It is not to the great doctrines of election and the like, or to the unfailing of God’s purpose, that the Holy Spirit specifically points the conscience in order to its purging, but expressly to the Father’s estimate of the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. For other precious purposes the Spirit does discourse to the saint on these blessed doctrines; but for the special purpose of giving and maintaining a purged conscience, He invariably directs the soul to the Lord Jesus’ Blood, as provided by the Father’s infinite love for that very end.

I'm not sure the Harris knows what he is talking about, NC. The Holy Spirit is the "thoughts and ways" of God as given to us in the Bible. For the saved believer, it is the Word that he has engrafted in his soul, 1Pet 1:23, by the faith. So the Holy Spirit being the Word of God is also the grace of God which, if we "engraft" it — apply God's truth to our lives — brings salvation and blessing. (Deut 30:20)

In new covenant salvation, we receive the Holy Spirit in place of our conscience and into our heart (our deepest desires). In fact, Ro 8:2 says that we receive the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus [that has] made us free from the law of sin and death" — therefore, no more consciousness of sin because the Spirit CANNOT sin in our souls, 1Jn 3:9.

"How does that work," you ask. "The law of the Spirit of life" is LOVE — which fulfills all the commandments and, if we do everything out of love for God and others rather than ourselves, we will not sin. "The law of the Spirit of life in Christ" = the righteousness of Christ (vs. the OT imputation of His righteousness to the OT saints). Do you know what this does? It makes us into the "express image" of Jesus, the God-man, who walked the earth in a body of "terrestrial glory," 1Cor 15:38-40.

So when we look at our consciences now, we see the Holy Spirit, NC. When God looks at us, He sees the blood of Christ, yes, And by grace (Word of God = Holy Spirit = thoughts and ways of God), we add daily to the measure of faith we have "Till we all come to the unity of the measure of the fulness of Christ," Eph 4:13.

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

I'm not sure the Harris knows what he is talking about, NC. The Holy Spirit is the "thoughts and ways" of God as given to us in the Bible. For the saved believer, it is the Word that he has engrafted in his soul, 1Pet 1:23, by the faith. So the Holy Spirit being the Word of God is also the grace of God which, if we "engraft" it — apply God's truth to our lives — brings salvation and blessing. (Deut 30:20)

I see the reasons for your conclusions, but it's my understanding that it's not the life of the Spirit of God that the Spirit instills at rebirth but the life of Christ (Col 3:4), through which Life all things are given from the Father. Being "born of the Spirit" designs the intention that the Spirit applies all things that are of the Lord Jesus (esp. His life) to the believer (Jhn 15:26). The Spirit glorifies Christ (Jhn 16:14) and Christ glorifies the Father (Jhn 17:1, 4; Phil 2:11). Therefore it's my understanding that the ministry of the Spirit is to apply all things of God to man concerning Soteriology.

Hope this doesn't seem to be just splitting hairs, which is not my intention, but rather for instructional purposes only.

God bless!

 

[skypair]

I see the reasons for your conclusions, but it's my understanding that it's not the life of the Spirit of God that the Spirit instills at rebirth but the life of Christ (Col 3:4), through which Life all things are given from the Father. Being "born of the Spirit" designs the intention that the Spirit applies all things that are of the Lord Jesus (esp. His life) to the believer (Jhn 15:26).

Yes, exactly .. per 1Cor 15:38-40 and Jn 17:21-23 — a body of "terrestrial glory" exactly like Christ's. And how does God do that? Here's something quite interesting — through the "keys to the kingdom." Do you remember what that was? It was the Holy Spirit indwelling that PETER was given to dispense from Jerusalem (Pentecost) to Judea to Samaria to the uttermost parts of the world (Gentiles, Cornelius). The key to it all is knowing Jesus Christ — not just knowing about Him.

You said:" "Being born of the Spirit" … applies all things that are of Jesus Christ to the believer.
Absolutely! How? Through the Word of God and us applying the truths to our lives. Here's one you might not have considered: "Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, Who, being in the form of God…" (Phil 2:5-6). Are we not in the form of God when we are born again? That's what "terrestrial glory" is, NC! "And being found in the fashion of man, He humbled [emptied*] Himself and became obedient unto death…" (2:8) That is, the God part of the born again believer, the Holy Spirit, finds his soul in the body of a man and in obedient, right?

* Emptied = put off the off man, right?



The Spirit glorifies Christ (Jhn 16:14) and Christ glorifies the Father (Jhn 17:1, 4; Phil 2:11).

True! In living flesh ("terrestrial") we do glorify God and Christ. See, God gives us a body as it pleases Him, 1Cor 15:38.

Hope this doesn't seem to be just splitting hairs, which is not my intention, but rather for instructional purposes only.

Not at all, NC. In fact it opens up a whole new vision into the Trinity, doesn't it? It's called the "eschatological view" which says that the true Trinity is yet to be revealed .. not till the end. We have been living with the orthodox "baptismal formula" of the Trinity since the errors of the ECF's.

Per your subtext: "The Christian life…" this would be understood to be living the "mind of Christ" which is the "thoughts and ways" of God, AKA the Holy Spirit. We are endeavoring to become "the Word become flesh" as we dwell among our peers.

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

I see the reasons for your conclusions, but it's my understanding that it's not the life of the Spirit of God that the Spirit instills at rebirth but the life of Christ (Col 3:4), through which Life all things are given from the Father. Being "born of the Spirit" designs the intention that the Spirit applies all things that are of the Lord Jesus (esp. His life) to the believer (Jhn 15:26).

Yes, exactly .. per 1Cor 15:38-40 and Jn 17:21-23 — a body of "terrestrial glory" exactly like Christ's. And how does God do that? Here's something quite interesting — through the "keys to the kingdom." Do you remember what that was? It was the Holy Spirit indwelling that PETER was given to dispense from Jerusalem (Pentecost) to Judea to Samaria to the uttermost parts of the world (Gentiles, Cornelius). The key to it all is knowing Jesus Christ — not just knowing about Him.

You said:" "Being born of the Spirit" … applies all things that are of Jesus Christ to the believer.
Absolutely! How? Through the Word of God and us applying the truths to our lives. Here's one you might not have considered: "Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, Who, being in the form of God…" (Phil 2:5-6). Are we not in the form of God when we are born again? That's what "terrestrial glory" is, NC! "And being found in the fashion of man, He humbled [emptied*] Himself and became obedient unto death…" (2:8) That is, the God part of the born again believer, the Holy Spirit, finds his soul in the body of a man and in obedient, right?

* Emptied = put off the off man, right?



The Spirit glorifies Christ (Jhn 16:14) and Christ glorifies the Father (Jhn 17:1, 4; Phil 2:11).

True! In living flesh ("terrestrial") we do glorify God and Christ. See, God gives us a body as it pleases Him, 1Cor 15:38.

Hope this doesn't seem to be just splitting hairs, which is not my intention, but rather for instructional purposes only.

Not at all, NC. In fact it opens up a whole new vision into the Trinity, doesn't it? It's called the "eschatological view" which says that the true Trinity is yet to be revealed .. not till the end. We have been living with the orthodox "baptismal formula" of the Trinity since the errors of the ECF's.

Per your subtext: "The Christian life…" this would be understood to be living the "mind of Christ" which is the "thoughts and ways" of God, AKA the Holy Spirit. We are endeavoring to become "the Word become flesh" as we dwell among our peers.

skypair





Actually it's Christ Himself, by the Holy Spirit living His life through us:

"For to me to live is Christ" (Philippians 1:21).

Once we learn the truth of our union with the Lord Jesus and of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, any attempt to imitate Christ will be seen for what it is: unscriptural, and futile.

"Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’”

"The end of Christ's incarnation, death and resurrection was to prepare and form a holy nature and frame for us in Him, to be communicated to us by union and fellowship with Him; and not to be able to produce in ourselves the first originals of such a holy nature by our own endeavors." Miles J Stanford

 

[skypair]

Actually it's Christ Himself, by the Holy Spirit living His life through us:

"For to me to live is Christ" (Philippians 1:21).

Right, but you will note .. WE have to engage with the Holy Spirit with our minds/spirits and our lives/temporal bodies. That makes us into the express image of Jesus when we do, right? It makes us yet another person/form of the Trinity, doesn't it? A form that was created without the indwelling Spirit but that receives it later in life.

Once we learn the truth of our union with the Lord Jesus and of the Holy Spirit's indwelling, any attempt to imitate Christ will be seen for what it is: unscriptural, and futile.


"Our Father is going to teach us, mainly through personal failure, that the life we live is the life of our Lord Jesus alone. The Christian life is not our living a life like Christ, or our trying to be Christ-like, nor is it Christ giving us the power to live a life like His; but it is Christ Himself living His own life through us; 'no longer I, but Christ.’”
What would Jesus be like if He lived in our generation? He would be like the born again believer. First, He would have to learn about the Scriptures applying them to his life .. like Jesus did as a boy. Then he would have an occupation .. like Jesus did as a carpenter until age 30 all the while continuing to "grow and wax strong in the spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon HIm." (Lk 2:40) And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature and in favor with God and men." (2:52) Isn't this our own testimony, too? Born of the Spirit .. matured/sanctified by the Spirit and the Word/Christ. "Let this mind be in you…"



"The end of Christ's incarnation, death and resurrection was to prepare and form a holy nature and frame for us in Him, to be communicated to us by union and fellowship with Him; and not to be able to produce in ourselves the first originals of such a holy nature by our own endeavors." Miles J Stanford

I would say that it takes the "endeavors" of our own spirit and body to carry out the works of the Holy Spirit, wouldn't you? IOW, there are "works of righteousness" that WE do, right?

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

Right, but you will note .. WE have to engage with the Holy Spirit with our minds/spirits and our lives/temporal bodies. That makes us into the express image of Jesus when we do, right? It makes us yet another person/form of the Trinity, doesn't it? A form that was created without the indwelling Spirit but that receives it later in life.

I would say that it takes the "endeavors" of our own spirit and body to carry out the works of the Holy Spirit, wouldn't you? IOW, there are "works of righteousness" that WE do, right?

The phrases "brightness of His glory" and "the express image of His glory" denotes more than mere similitude but is in reference to the divinity of Christ, who is "the only begotten of the Father" (Jhn 1:14). This isolates being divine to Christ only because He was the only human born who was "conceived of the Holy Spirit." Adam and Eve were not "begotten" into the world but "created," and of course their progenitorial offspring are begotten of them.

John Gill commentary: "T[SIZE=11pt]he express image of his person; this intends much the same as the other phrase; namely, equality and sameness of nature, and distinction of persons; for if the Father is God, Christ must be so too; and if he is a person, his Son must be so likewise, or he cannot be the express image and character of him." [/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Calvin: "[/SIZE]Who being the brightness of his glory, etc. These things are said of Christ partly as to his divine essence, and partly as a partaker of our flesh. When he is called the brightness of his glory and the impress of his substance, his divinity is referred to; the other things appertain in a measure to his human nature. The whole, however, is stated in order to set forth the dignity of Christ.

"But it is for the same reason that the Son is said to be “the brightness of his glory”, and “the impress of his substance:” they are words borrowed from nature. For nothing can be said of things so great and so profound, but by similitudes taken from created things. There is therefore no need refinedly to discuss the question how the Son, who has the same essence with the Father, is a brightness emanating from his light. We must allow that there is a degree of impropriety in the language when what is borrowed from created things is transferred to the hidden majesty of God. But still the things which are indent to our senses are fitly applied to God, and for this end, that we may know what is to be found in Christ, and what benefits he brings to us."

Yes, those who are born again do works of righteousness but to avoid errant concepts here, it must be maintained that this "righteousness" is never derived from us, but from God--through us, e.g. we have no self-righteousness for it's all God's! View Titus 3:5 and Romans 4:6.

Blessings!

 

[skypair]

John Gill commentary: "T[SIZE=11pt]he express image of his person; this intends much the same as the other phrase; namely, equality and sameness of nature, and distinction of persons; for if the Father is God, Christ must be so too; and if he is a person, his Son must be so likewise, or he cannot be the express image and character of him."[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]We, too, are "born of the Spirit," no? Have you not been born of the Spirit? I was when I was 16. I also "emptied myself" though it was of sin and through repentance .. not at Jesus did of His divine privileges. Without doing so, He could have never been like us .. and without doing so, we can never be like Him, right? Then I began to become the "Word made flesh" just like He did. Are we not to "let this mind be in you" to "think it not robbery to be equal to Christ?" Do we not have His same "terrestrial glory" .. the indwelling Holy Spirit? Are we not born again to be like Jesus and live with our Father eternally?[/SIZE]

Yes, those who are born again do works of righteousness but to avoid errant concepts here, it must be maintained that this "righteousness" is never derived from us, but from God—through us, e.g. we have no self-righteousness for it's all God's! View Titus 3:5 and Romans 4:6.

I would maintain that we have no self at all. We "emptied" ourselves of self, remember? That is the old man that we put to death when we repented and were born again. Self is pushed out into our spirits by which we serve the Holy Spirit in our souls. (I have been developing a view regarding the psychology of salvation which treats terms like heart, conscience, mind, emotion, will, etc. as psychology understands them to be.)

This is, of course, very hard to swallow when your learning depends on academia (Calvin, for instance) and majesterium instead of the Bible. Of course this could also be said of the "eschatological view of the trinity." However, scripture does say, "For the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God" (Ro 8:19, which to my view is the 3rd element of the Trinity).

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

[SIZE=11pt]We, too, are "born of the Spirit," [/SIZE]

I'm referring to "begotten" which is in reference to only one birth of the physical body, not a second birth of our spirit. No man is conceived of the Holy Spirit except the Lord Jesus (only begotten), and only man requires rebirth, not Christ.

 

[Netchaplain]

Right, but you will note .. WE have to engage with the Holy Spirit with our minds/spirits and our lives/temporal bodies. That makes us into the express image of Jesus when we do, right? It makes us yet another person/form of the Trinity, doesn't it? A form that was created without the indwelling Spirit but that receives it later in life.

Though we have much doctrianal disagreement, it's good that we can continue to communicate in the "Word of truth" apart from contention!

Concerning the Trinity it's my understanding that this is a stand-alone truth which none else can share in relating to Their essence of divinity and deity (not suspecting you of this concept). "Partaking of the divine nature" intends only that which are the benefits of it (Heb 12:10) and not becoming divine. This was the prime objective of Satan and now, New-Agers.

 

[skypair]

I'm referring to "begotten" which is in reference to only one birth of the physical body, not a second birth of our spirit. No man is conceived of the Holy Spirit except the Lord Jesus (only begotten), and only man requires rebirth, not Christ.

Sure, I understand that. But is our rebirth any less a part of our nature than it was a part of Jesus' nature?

skypair

 

[Netchaplain]

Sure, I understand that. But is our rebirth any less a part of our nature than it was a part of Jesus' nature?

skypair

Not sure we're discussing the same subject, but our nature is sinful and will never, even in the next life, be divine. Though our new nature is sinless, it cannot be divine. Divinity involves deity only, and this is a very common truth among nearly all Bible Christians.

Jesus' nature is the only humanly divine nature and He never had a nature of man in anything other than the nature of the physical body, which is infirmity:

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Here it's clear He did not have a sin nature as we do, and the "tempted" is not related to sinning but tempted as being "tested," e.g. in enduring hardship, for "God cannot be tempted with evil," because you have to have a sin nature to sin.

Blessings!

 

[skypair]

Though we have much doctrianal disagreement, it's good that we can continue to communicate in the "Word of truth" apart from contention!

Concerning the Trinity it's my understanding that this is a stand-alone truth which none else can share in relating to Their essence of divinity and deity (not suspecting you of this concept). "Partaking of the divine nature" intends only that which are the benefits of it (Heb 12:10) and not becoming divine. This was the prime objective of Satan and now, New-Agers.

This is really interesting to me. Thanks for keeping it objective. :) My understanding is that, when the "process" of salvation is done, we will be like our Father, no? The first step is that our soul be as His (re: 1Thes 5:23). The process of sanctification, which begins with our soul, brings our spirit (mind, emotions, and will) into the same mindset at Jesus. That which is not reconciled in our spirit in this life will be reconciled at the Bema, 1Cor 3:13-15 -- at which point we will have received our body of "celestial glory" in the rapture to be EXACTLY like our Father.

It is part of my understanding that, at that time, God will be self-unified (vs self-separated per the eschatological view) and we will see Him face-to-face, Rev 22:4. As scripture says, at this time Christ is "all and in all" but in that day, God will be "all and in all." (1Cor 15)

Do you understand that the entire purpose of creation was to "create man in our Own image?" But you can't change free moral agents into "our Own image" without testing (justifying) and teaching (sanctifying) them and giving them a body like His? Adam could be created in the image of God .. but his spiritual person could NOT be made perfect, righteous, against his will.

So are we "God-men" now? No, because we have not lived a perfect life. But we will be. Do you know why God doesn't sin even when He is tempted as we are? Because He knows what we are only learning .. the sure consequences of sin.

skypair

 

[skypair]

Not sure we're discussing the same subject, but our nature is sinful and will never, even in the next life, be divine.

Negative! We are made partakers of the divine nature in Christ! 2Pet 1:4-8! Read it, NC! It is a progression.

Though our new nature is sinless, it cannot be divine. Divinity involves deity only, and this is a very common truth among nearly all Bible Christians.

Sorry but I don't agree with things that are not biblical.



Jesus' nature is the only humanly divine nature and He never had a nature of man in anything other than the nature of the physical body, which is infirmity:[/QUOTE]Sorry again but we have the same nature as Jesus when we are saved .. a body of "terrestrial glory." It is a new body (1Cor 15:38-40). It is not the body with which we were born.

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Here it's clear He did not have a sin nature as we do, and the "tempted" is not related to sinning but tempted as being "tested," e.g. in enduring hardship, for "God cannot be tempted with evil," because you have to have a sin nature to sin.

No sir! In fact, you have to sin in order to have a sin nature. The reason Jesus never had a sin nature is because He never sinned.

Think about it in your own life. No,think about what Paul said in Ro 7. I was "alive without the law once." What is that saying? That he had an innocent, "human nature" with which we all, ever Jesus, are born. He sinned, then the law came in, then he "concubesced" with sin, and finally "the law came in, sin revived, and I died [I received a sin nature]." Ro 7:9

Does this make sense to you?

skypair