Books Outside Scripture

[Christina]

Quoting Books out side scripture is very common and most of are guilty at sometime myself included I wanted to make a some points about Books out side the Bible with so many posters this comes up quite often.There are a million kind of Books and writings about the Bible but what I am referring to here are So called Lost or excluded Books. There are manyMaccabees, Esdras's, Jubilees, Enoch, Dead sea scrolls just to name a few of them Some like Maccabees are in part, in other Bibles of certain faiths, some like Esdras's was in the 1611 KJV and then removed, Some are on controversial subject such as Enoch, then there are newly found Books like Jasher. So how do we know what is right what is wrong.So I thought I would give you some basic guidelines to help you in your studies. 1. First and foremost there is only one inspired Word of God and that is the Holy Bible. 2. All other books can not be considered as Holy scripture (this includes so called inspired Books of other religions (such as Book of Morman) So what good are they you might ask? They can provide further information,details on a subject they can also serve as a second witness, notice I said second witness. If you look at the Bible as the facts told us by God. Then any fact we see in scripture. It is perfectly acceptable to take a second witness account from another Book. However it should never take precedence over the Bible scriptures. If the subject in question is not in the Bible and covered in another Book it can not be considered Part of Gods Word.Which is not to say it has no value, for example Maccabees tells some interesting History of the Jews it can give one a better sense of what was happening at that time and bring another dimension to your reading of the scriptures. It has some subject which are in scripture and some which are not. this does not mean we have to disreguard the whole book but must decern what is a second witness to scripture and what is not. God did not include them for a reason.Now that being said some are very informative, but may just have small errors like dates or names,or Genologys ect. But Gods word being infallible could not include them for this reason. It does not make them all wrong just not infallible So again we must Go with the Word of God as our truth. Now Using these outside writings/books to disprove facts told us in scripture is unacceptable in Bible study . One can not use an unproven fact to deny God truth.Now that being said some are very informative, but may just have small errors like dates, or names,or Genologys, others are clearly not Biblical at all. We can not call all of these Books Evil, or Right or Wrong as each must be evaluated on its own merit as to what kind of second witness it is. Remember the subject must first be in the scriptures before you can use a second witness argument. Now this wont answer all questions on this Subject as we do not all agree whats in the scriptures so we will not all agree what a second witness is. So I write this only as a guide to help those confused by this.

 

[Pariah]

hi kriss,Thanks for sharing that. Hope you are feeling better soon since your mood indicator has you at sick at the moment.Although I am not in total agreement of what was shared for the reasons as to why they were excluded from the Bible. There are some lost books that is just way out there.The tradition of the Jews is stoning false prophets. Thus there cannot be any descrepancies in the Bible to cause doubts otherwise where would be the authority to stone false prophets? It is for this reasons that the books were excluded. If one error that throws the whole flow of the scriptures out of sync, then the book is a false book, just as a false prophet is a false prophet if he says nine truths and slips in one lie. Everything said in there is suspect and thus cannot be used to validate a teaching as if it makes it clearer to understand the scriptures in the Bible. That would be the same as adding to God's Words from a book that is not scriptures, but applying parts from it to validate the use of the scriptures in the Bible to support a false teaching that otherwise would not be so clear unless using the outside sources.I had a dream when I was only going to three forums at the time: this one, Lampstand, and Theology Online or TOL. I had gone to other forums previously, and has revisitted some recently, but at the time of the dream, this took place.I awoke in my bed. It was facing another way. I dreamt that I was in bed with someone else and noticed it was my niece. I was distrurbed by this as she was lying with her feet up by my head sort of and seperated from me by the sheets. I tunred over away from her on my side and noticed three other beds unslept in that was available, and then I was really perturbed that she was so tired, she couldn't make it over there. Then the dream shifted as my bed turned in my bedroom to face the way it is in real life. I looked up and saw three things floating around the ceiling fan. One was a plastic nest that had eggs in it as if looking for something to drop eggs on which is TOL. The other one, I could not see very well, but the second one was a wolf. It saw me and became larger as it came down from circling as it became embodied by growing from a head to the whole body of the wolf. I rolled away from it just as it closed its jaws on my throat which did not do any harm, but gave the impression of closing in on it and then the dream ended. There were other dreams, but the Lord led me to show by that one that the teaching of the serpent seed is a false teaching, but it didn't sink in yet. The wolf closed in on my throat because I had always believed that the angels mingled with man thus the need for keeping the line pure from mingling wiith fallen angels, but I just didn't believe in the other races stuff nor that anybody else survived but Noah and his family. I heard about it, but I did not believe it... even though I believed that fallen angels mixed with mankind.Then the Lord brought into remembrance all things taught unto me when I had that other dream. I was filling out an application for a job which the interviewer congratulated me as I looked at the application I had just signed in that was already signed and apporved by two witnesses. The man that spoke to me said that I didn't have to work until after December. Then as I was thinking about if I made any mistakes on my application, he said not to worry about it as corrections will be made. This guy became the man I knew as the founder of Living Quarters, a shelter for the homeless as he was saying all this to me when I was congratulated. Then he approached my brother, Matt, standing afar off, leaning against one of the long tables as I noticed now that I was standing in a banquet hall with a stage being set and prepared towards the front. He approached my brother asking if he was going to apply for the job as well.. and then the dream ended.It was then.. from waking from that dream.. that everything the Lord taught me... came into remembrance by the Holy Spirit in me. A confirmation came as I was sharing what the Lord shared with me was when you quoted Jasher as the source for Sarah being Abraham's niece. But it didn't do anything to reassure me as I already knew I was reproved by the Lord. Maybe the sign was for you, but in truth, I would think the Lord has revealed something to you, but maybe it just hasn't tumbled like dominos yet as He did for me, because I would find it hard to accept someone's else word about a dream he or she had that was convenient in support or denouncing a teaching.Anyway, keep an eye out as I trust the Lord to bring it to remembrance. I am sure He has been showing you also, but just not able to receive that yet. Believe me, this is not the only time the Lord corrected me in a manner like this... not referring to dreams, but what He was even trying to tell me in waking state from high school till 1994 about the altar call in making a commitment to Christ being an apostate call. Yep. That long. He is most patient.Although the man in the dream assured me that any mistakes I had made would be corrected, it seemed so odd that I had received it upon awakening. So I am hoping that He is at work in correcting since He did it to me alone.One thing I would like to point out about the Book of Enoch...is he could not have written it since he was taken up before the Flood. Now I know Job was written after the Flood also, but as mcuh as been speculated as to the time the story of Job took place, it was never alluded that Job was the author, and I believed Enoch was alluded as being the author of Enoch. How can that be? Enoch was before the Flood... before Moses started writing the first five books Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are the first 5 books of the Bible and they make up the Pentateuch. It is assumed that Joshua was written by himself, but is never stated clearly. The following books from Judges to Job have unidentified authors except for Ezra and Nehemiah.I'll never believe that the writings of Enoch survived with Noah's family and conveniently kept safe all this time through Israel becoming a people in Egypt and led out to become a nation, and find its way into Moses's hands or the scholars that keep copying the scrolls into preserving them which I might add... were pretty crappy in doing so. Regardless of it being old and before Christ supposedly, something just doesn't add up by the Books being from Enoch itself. Maybe that is why the Jews never considered it "authoritive" text... and one would think so if it be one of the earliest writings. Being how forgeries were made, I truly doubt they even have the confirmation of the whole books of the "original" from the Dead Sea Scrolls when there are only ten fragments total...and four of them were hard to read. Could the whole book of Enochs be a forgery based on an nonauthoritative belief of a particular sect of Jews which would be considered a cult like the book of Mormons is to the Latter Day Saints, but their books are in tatters?Anyway, something to think about... and pray to Jesus regarding the false teaching of the serpent seed. I know I had always believed in angels mingling with man, but wow.. He really showed the truth to me. It will have to be up to Him to show the truth to you... regarding the serpent seed.Oh.. and for one other matter. I do not believe there was an age before Adam and Eve. Death could not be in the world already for then Adam could not be blamed for bringing death into the world because of sin. This leads to the glory of Jesus Christ as life come through Him. It would be pointless to have an age before Adam and Eve. It goes to creating doubt that death cannot be defeated since it is not linked to sin. I know that there are alot of teachings out there, but people think God would not be deceptive if the age of the universe was created older, and yet they forget that Adam was a full grown man as Eve was a full grown woman. If certain age is given because of the need for maturity in elements, it does not mean that it is older than it appears.Save for example.. lights that we see from the heavens. As light travels at a speed, we think that because it takes that long, that is how long the universe is or the earth is. But guess what? If God spoke and it is done.. then if God wanted the lights from the heavens to shine on the earth that day.. He would not only create the source of the lights, but fill in the gap of that light to shine on the earth that day. I use this as a basis for using the Bible that we have in discerning the truth. It can be staring right at us, but we just don't fully take in the awesome power of God when He speaks in creation... and yet we believe it when Jesus spoke.. and healings were done and demons were cast out.

 

[HammerStone]

A lot of people can claim a dream one way or another. These "special dreams" simply don't impress me very much.I agree about the extra-Biblical books though. That's why I try not to use them. They are worth studying with a lot of caution when they agree with Scripture, but one should always be on their toes. You'll do just fine if you decide to stick with the Word.

 

[Christina]

PariahWell I agree with you that these are not the only reason and there are some outragous things out there. I did say some are left out for these reason and some are just not Biblical at all.But you are over reaching to denounce all these works in a blanket sweep that initself is a bad as accepting anything. You can not call one a false prophet for a slip of the scribes pen or the format of the writer, Or as in Maccabees, Esdras's, Jubilees these are all reconized as authic and some nearly cananized and for various reason God put it on hearts of the council or hid them but they were not to be include them but to brand them false is equally wrong they should be viewed for exactly what they are. These Books have as much some more vality as the ones written by men we use today or ministers of the church that write Books and should be given at least the same weight. You cant toss the baby out with the bath water so to speak.The biblical apocrypha includes texts written in the Jewish and Christian religious traditions that either:were accepted into the biblical canon by some, but not all, Christian faiths, or whose canonicity or lack thereof is not yet certain,[1] or are frequently printed in Bibles despite their non-canonical status. Extra-biblical works sometimes referred to as apocrypha, The biblical apocrypha are sometimes referred to as the Apocrypha. Although the term apocrypha simply means hidden, this usage is sometimes considered pejorative by those who consider such works to be canonical parts of their scripture.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocryphaI just again warn they can not be taken as scripture.