Born again

[n2thelight]

Some refused to be born from above

Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

If you get cool,if not all good.

Bottom line is we were with God before being born of woman,just like Christ was....

 

[Davy]

The kingdom of God is NOW in the Spirit. We are to walk in the Spirit...now. You aren't getting that.

We walk in the realm of God's kingdom when we walk in the Spirit. It is being in two places at once. Seeing through the kingdom into this world. Or else seeing through this world into the kingdom.

I know that most people have not any notion of what it means to be walking in the Spirit.

Many people only see these things in as happening in the future. It is as if the new covenant was yet to come.

But Jesus warned that FEW would be able to enter. That doesn't mean that we can't enter in today. It takes faith...real faith to do so.

Walking in The Spirit, yeah, but that still does not mean His future Kingdom is NOW. It is important to make that distinction, otherwise you would be assigning today's world as His future Eternity. In Christ's future Kingdom, there won't be any war, murder, thefts, etc. Those things of today's world will be no more.

 

[Davy]

I said nothing about STILL ALIVE in a FLESH Body. So, you pretending I said that is MOOT.

... I know what I said is correct.

....

Well, actually you did... refer to a flesh body being saved...

You said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath."

Your statement is pointing to the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden before... the fall. And you connected that idea of flesh there with the idea of God breathing into flesh the breath of life and Adam becoming a living soul.

Thus Judaism believes that the idea 'soul' is part of the flesh. Yet Jesus said this...

Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV

Jesus showed there the flesh body is a separate part from the soul.

Our spirit (with our soul) being a separate part, and not of flesh was first shown in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 about what happens at flesh death. Our flesh goes back to the earth where it came from, and our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. In John 3 Jesus said that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit, i.e. two separate and distinct manifestations. It is the idea Apostle Paul taught of the "image of the earthy" vs. the "image of the heavenly", about the two different dimensions of existence shown in God's Word.

 

[Taken]

Well, actually you did... refer to a flesh body being saved...

Uh, you are out of context.

You said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath."

Yes.
Men are dust bodies....souls are a gift from God to a mans body, via Gods Breath.

The mans body, CORRUPTS the soul.
It is Gods power that can RESTORE the soul, in the mans body.

Your statement is pointing to the time of Adam and Eve in God's Garden before... the fall.

Yes, that is our HISTORICAL notice of the beginnig of manKIND.

And you connected that idea of flesh there with the idea of God breathing into flesh the breath of life and Adam becoming a living soul.

Yes. Scripture Connects that, and I agree.

Thus Judaism believes that the idea 'soul' is part of the flesh.

So? What does what Judaism believes have to do with me?

Jesus showed there the flesh body is a separate part from the soul.

Uh....duh...
My first comment to you...EXPRESSLY showed
A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE of the:
Body, Soul, Spirit.

Weird!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Walking in The Spirit, yeah, but that still does not mean His future Kingdom is NOW. It is important to make that distinction, otherwise you would be assigning today's world as His future Eternity. In Christ's future Kingdom, there won't be any war, murder, thefts, etc. Those things of today's world will be no more.

The Importance is Knowing the context.

When Speaking of ONE "POINT"..
Ie The Lords Kingdom...

And that ONE "POINT" is revealed in MORE than ONE context...

1) Naturally
2) Spiritually

THEN BOTH contexts ARE CORRECT.

The Lords KINGDOM SHALL in the Future be a Physical Place, On a Physical Earth, with His Physical Presence....

The Lords KINGDOM "IS" Spiritually Present IN Men, Who are Converted IN Christ Jesus "AND" are Alive ON earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Yes.
Men are dust bodies....souls are a gift from God to a mans body, via Gods Breath.
....

No, I've not taken anything out of context.

You referred to the flesh body of Adam and Eve before the sin in God's Eden. You are claiming that is the resurrection state of the future.

And... you said "Men are dust bodies" when that even is not a completely true statement from Scripture... since I showed you what Jesus said about man being able to kill one's flesh body, but not the soul.

A false belief of Judaism about the soul is that the soul can only exist in a flesh body, i.e., that flesh plus the breath must be joined. Even then the soul is still a separate component, because like Jesus showed in John 3, that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. They are two separate operations, and what Eccl.12 shows you verifies that also.

 

[Davy]

The Importance is Knowing the context.

When Speaking of ONE "POINT"..
Ie The Lords Kingdom...

And that ONE "POINT" is revealed in MORE than ONE context...

1) Naturally
2) Spiritually

THEN BOTH contexts ARE CORRECT.

The Lords KINGDOM SHALL in the Future be a Physical Place, On a Physical Earth, with His Physical Presence....

The Lords KINGDOM "IS" Spiritually Present IN Men, Who are Converted IN Christ Jesus "AND" are Alive ON earth.

Glory to God,
Taken

You often show you don't know what 'context' really means, nor that you pay much attention to it. I can easily recall my posts to you of how Luke 17 actually shows the first ones 'taken' are not raptured to Jesus, showing you the very answer of our Lord Jesus there which His disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?" Instead you pushed the lie, OUT OF CONTEXT, that that is about a rapture to Jesus! So don't try to lecture me about context.

 

[Taken]

No, I've not taken anything out of context.

Yes you have.

[/QUOTE]You referred to the flesh body of Adam and Eve before the sin in God's Eden. [/QUOTE]

And? So? His body WAS flesh.

You are claiming that is the resurrection state of the future.

No I did not. Nor can you quote me making that claim.

I said quite Specifically The BODY Becomes Changed.

And... you said "Men are dust bodies"

Yes I did say Bodies Are Dust.
The Earth was created.
Earth is dry land.
The surface of the dry land is Dust.
Men are Made "from" Dust.
And when the Body Physically Dies it "returns" to Dust.

Doesn't matter if you believe that or not.
Scripture teaches that and I trust to believe scripture regardless of what you believe.

when that even is not a completely true statement from Scripture... since I showed you what Jesus said about man being able to kill one's flesh body, but not the soul.

Nothing new, I am familiar with that particular scripture.
Of course men can not KILL the soul.
To KILL, means to extinguish its LIFE.
The soul within a man IS ALIVE, because it is Gods Breath, that is the LIFE of the soul.

Of course MEN can not extinguish Life that IS Gods.

A false belief of Judaism about the soul is that the soul can only exist in a flesh body, i.e.,

So? I said no such thing, so what does that have to do with me? Nothing.

Even then the soul is still a separate component, because like Jesus showed in John 3, that which is born of flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit. They are two separate operations, and what Eccl.12 shows you verifies that also.

Uh, you keep Pretending you are arguing the point that the soul and flesh are separate things and trying to Convince me of something that from the git go I already Know and acknowledge.

Weird,

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

You often show you don't know what 'context' really means, nor that you pay much attention to it. I can easily recall my posts to you of how Luke 17 actually shows the first ones 'taken' are not raptured to Jesus, showing you the very answer of our Lord Jesus there which His disciples asked Him "Where, Lord?" Instead you pushed the lie, OUT OF CONTEXT, that that is about a rapture to Jesus! So don't try to lecture me about context.

Blah, blah, blah.

I make a point. You say oh, no, no, no. repeat the same point in your words...then say I said something I did NOT say....and then think you have an argument.

That is weird.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Yes you have.

You referred to the flesh body of Adam and Eve before the sin in God's Eden.

And? So? His body WAS flesh.


No I did not. Nor can you quote me making that claim.

I said quite Specifically The BODY Becomes Changed.

Now you are fibbing, because here is what you said in an earlier post...

Taken said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath."


The time when God gave man the breath of life was when He formed Adam in the flesh in His Garden of Eden, BEFORE ADAM'S FALL.

That is the type body you said will be "Restored to its sinless fashion".

 

[Taken]

Now you are fibbing, because here is what you said in an earlier post...

Uh huh, and restoration of the soul IS what ocurrs to a SAVED soul.

Taken said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath."

Taken The time when God gave man the breath of life was when He formed Adam in the flesh in His Garden of Eden, BEFORE ADAM'S FALL.

1) Every natrually alive man receives an UNCORRPT soul, via Gods Breath.
2) Adam disobeyed. His soul became corrupt by the act of his flesh.
3) Ofcourse God does NOT BREATH a Corrupt soul INTO A MAN.
4) However a Saved soul is MADE "restored", Uncorrupted, as when God gave it to the man.
5) 23 Psalm;
...[3] He restoreth my soul:

BTW Adam was NOT "Created" "IN" the Garden.
Adam was Created and PUT "IN" the Garden.

Gen 2
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

That is the type body you said will be "Restored to its sinless fashion".

Natural born bodies were NEVER SINLESS, thus they can NOT BE "RESTORED" to Sinless.

The soul is not the body.
The body is not the soul.

Souls are Restored, to uncorrupted.
Bodies are Changed, to immortal.
Spirits are Born of the Seed of God.

Already said this, and so also does Scripture.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Davy]

Uh huh, and restoration of the soul IS what ocurrs to a SAVED soul.

Taken said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath.
Never subject to death."

But you pointed to the state of Adam before... the fall per that above statement. Adam's state before the fall was a living soul with a flesh body. Apostle Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption, which means a flesh body CANNOT become a "spiritual body". They are two separate things, and Eccl.12 with the "silver cord" reveals our spirit body inside and our flesh body is held together by that silver cord, and the cord is severed at flesh death, the two parts going their separate ways.

 

[Taken]

Taken said:
"The SOUL is Restored to its sinless fashion it was when God Gave it to man Via His Breath.
Never subject to death."

Uh huh..

But you pointed to the state of Adam before... the fall per that above statement.

Follow the Order...
The first man to receive a perfect soul was Adam.
The first man to corrupt his perfect soul was Adam.
The first man to be forgiven for corrupting his soul was Adam.

Adam's state before the fall was a living soul with a flesh body.

And so? That is fully acknowledged.

Apostle Paul said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption,

which means a flesh body CANNOT become a "spiritual body".

No. Which means; since Adam fell, mans SEED became corrupted, and ALL offspring from the First man, (Adam), is naturally born, as the offspring of a CORRUPT SEED, thus all men are BORN "IN" SIN, without the man having YET "COMMITTED" SIN.

Which means, as Jesus taught, Flesh and blood is Corrupt, AND THEREFORE CAN NOT PARTICIPATE in the inheritance of HAVING Occupancy IN the Kingdom of God.

But, but, but, ALSO as Jesus taught, there IS A "WAY", Jesus' WAY, for a man to be "MADE" ACCEPTBLE "To God", for the man to Obtain Acceptance into the Kingdom of God.

which means a flesh body CANNOT become a "spiritual body".

THOSE ^^ are your words...Your conditions...
Your acceptance.

You are NOT the one who establishes Gods Conditions, or Gods Acceptance.

God is Creator "AND" Maker.
God is Supreme Power.
God Can and Does "MAKE" what is IMPERFECT...PERFECT, According to Offerings and HIS Acceptance.

Scripture CLEARLY teaches a Converted mans BODY shall BE "CHANGED", (by the Power of God).
Doesn't really matter to me IF YOU accept that or not.
Doesn't really matter to me IF YOU understand HOW the Body is CHANGED,
OR
WHAT the BODY shall "LOOK" Like.

They are two separate things,

If you think you RECEIVE A NEW BODY.....that's you.

I believe Scripture says NOTHING about receiving a NEW BODY, but rather, thee Lord God CHANGES my Body, MAKING me a NEW Creature.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wafer]

The bible is to be taken literally until it says something impossible, and then it is a figure of speech. We do not guess at these things. All known figures of speech were catalogued in ancient Greece.

An idiom is a phrase that has meaning to people in a particular group. "Born again" was an idiom in Nazareth. It meant "to become childlike". Nicodemus was not from Nazareth so he didn't know that. He could only take it literally, and that was impossible.

 

[Episkopos]

The bible is to be taken literally until it says something impossible, and then it is a figure of speech. We do not guess at these things. All known figures of speech were catalogued in ancient Greece.

An idiom is a phrase that has meaning to people in a particular group. "Born again" was an idiom in Nazareth. It meant "to become childlike". Nicodemus was not from Nazareth so he didn't know that. He could only take it literally, and that was impossible.

Not so much. Being born again according to the bible is to be born of the Spirit...born from above. It is to be born in Zion which is above. The Jerusalem which is above. That is the biblical sense of it.

 

[Wafer]

Not so much. Being born again according to the bible is to be born of the Spirit...born from above. It is to be born in Zion which is above. The Jerusalem which is above. That is the biblical sense of it.

You are making up stuff. That has nothing to with Nicodemus meeting Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

You are making up stuff. That has nothing to with Nicodemus meeting Jesus.

Speaking of people who don't know their bibles...

Are you unaware of the kingdom of God around you....that can be perceived only by spiritual faculties? The bible is full of examples of this.

 

[Pre-Trib Rapper]

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved and thy house (1 Timothy) is all I need to know.

 

[Wafer]

Soul is a Hebrew concept, a synonym for a living breathing creature. When the creature stops breathing, the soul is dead. Anybody who uses the word in any other context either doesn't know what they are talking about, or is trying to sell something you don't need. Except musicians. Musicians are cool, and they know exactly what they mean by "soul".

Sometimes the bible says "spirit of man" when it means soul.

"Born again" is an idiom, a phrase with a special meaning to people of a certain area. To Nazarenes it mean "to become childlike". Nocodemus was not from Nazareth so he didn't know that. He could only take it literally, and it doesn't make sense when taken literally.