Can A Man Love God And Not Obey Him ?

[mark s]

It is very sad that millions of people think they are headed for Heaven no matter what kind of life they live... I totally agree with what you said.

Yes, it is very sad! And these are, as it were, innoculated against the Gospel, thinking they are already OK.

 

[haz]

It is very sad that millions of people think they are headed for Heaven no matter what kind of life they live... I totally agree with what you said.

Hi HollyRock,

Unfortuantely we see millions of people who think they are headed for Heaven no matter that they judge righteousness by works of the law. This is unbelief. It results in not being permitted to enter His rest (Heb 4:1-11).

Grace is not a licence to do wrong (and God chastises any who do wrong) but it seems many lose sight of grace because they obsess over how good a life we live to such an extent that they judge righteousness by works of the law.
There are some here on this forum who obsess over lifestyle to such an extent that they are in unbelief, judging righteousness by works of the law.

The criminal on the cross who called Jesus Lord was told by Jesus "today you will be with me in paradise". He was a criminal till the day he died.
Is your life perfect or just somewhat better than that criminal who called Jesus Lord?
Are we better or more deserving than that criminal?

 

[Kidron]

Unfortuantely we see millions of people who think they are headed for Heaven no matter that they judge righteousness by works of the law.

A fair question is to ask of people who believe that water baptism saves you, or that "faith without works is dead", is their idea of salvation... IS.:
Are these people really saved?
Can you be saved if you have not understood that the gift of righteousness is FREE?
Can you really be saved if your theology is to argue against the idea that you can be saved without living right later?
Its something to consider...



K

 

[neophyte]

haz, you used the illustration of the thief on the cross, the good thief did do good works as he hung on the cross. He rebuked the bad thief. He expressed sorrow for his sins. He also expressed a desire to be with Jesus in His kingdom. So the good thief had a conversion of heart, and persevered in faith and good works to the end of his life, and Christ rewarded him with eternal salvation. Second, the Church has taught for 2,000 years that there are three ways to be baptized: by water, by desire and by blood. In this case, the good thief had a baptism of desire (by expressing his desire to be with Christ, even though it was presumably too late for a water baptism; this is also the reason why we can believe infants who die before baptism can go to heaven, based on the parents desire to baptize them, but for some intervening cause that prevented it). Martyrs who were not baptized in water and the Spirit, but martyred for Christ, are baptized by blood (i.e., the Holy Innocents). So water baptism is a normative, but not an absolute necessity for salvation. I hope that helps.

Kidron,
Are we justified or saved by faith, according to Jesus? Certainly! But by faith alone that would exclude works in every sense? No way. In John 11:25, we read: "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live." That is faith. Yet, in Matthew 19:17-19, Jesus declared: ". . . If you would enter life, keep the commandments . . . You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself." That is works.
In Matthew 12:37, Jesus puts any thought of justification by faith alone to rest: ". . . for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

[haz]

haz, you used the illustration of the thief on the cross, the good thief did do good works as he hung on the cross. He rebuked the bad thief. He expressed sorrow for his sins. He also expressed a desire to be with Jesus in His kingdom. So the good thief had a conversion of heart, and persevered in faith and good works to the end of his life, and Christ rewarded him with eternal salvation. Second, the Church has taught for 2,000 years that there are three ways to be baptized: by water, by desire and by blood. In this case, the good thief had a baptism of desire (by expressing his desire to be with Christ, even though it was presumably too late for a water baptism; this is also the reason why we can believe infants who die before baptism can go to heaven, based on the parents desire to baptize them, but for some intervening cause that prevented it). Martyrs who were not baptized in water and the Spirit, but martyred for Christ, are baptized by blood (i.e., the Holy Innocents). So water baptism is a normative, but not an absolute necessity for salvation. I hope that helps.

Kidron,
Are we justified or saved by faith, according to Jesus? Certainly! But by faith alone that would exclude works in every sense? No way. In John 11:25, we read: "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live." That is faith. Yet, in Matthew 19:17-19, Jesus declared: ". . . If you would enter life, keep the commandments . . . You shall not kill, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, and, you shall love your neighbor as yourself." That is works.
In Matthew 12:37, Jesus puts any thought of justification by faith alone to rest: ". . . for by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."

Hi neophyte,

You say the good thief on the cross did "good works as he hung on the cross". What "good works" was he doing whilst on the cross? He wasn't physically able to be tested to see if he could keep any of the 10 commandments hanging on the cross, so it can't be works of keeping the 10 commandments that you refer to, can it?

Correct me if I misunderstand you, but you seem to be saying that we're justified by faith and the works that go along with this faith are obedience to the 10 commandments. But this is at odds with the circumstances of the thief on the cross.

You quote Matt 19:17-19. But note also verses 20,21.
"Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
[sup] [/sup]So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
[sup] [/sup]He said to Him, “Which ones?”
Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ [sup] [/sup]‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”
Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Scripture shows us that the works God requires of us is to "believe on him whom he hath sent", John 6:29
These are the good works the thief on the cross did when he turned to Jesus and called him "Lord".
This is what Jesus referred to when he said to the young man in Matt 19:21 "come, follow me"

 

[Axehead]

The first good work of righteousness that anyone can do is to "Believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ". This kind of belief implies repentance. Turning to the Lord and believing on Him means turning away from everything else. These are righteous good works and you continue to walk in them, turning away from everything else that would have your heart and turning to the Lord.

Axehead

 

[kensapp]

Loving God will always mean obeying His commandments.

 

[calvaryoakville]

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But those who obey God's word truly show how completely they love him. That is how we know we are living in him.

When you love God obeying Him follows!

children's ministry in Oakville