I believe that nearly your entire post is made up of nothing more than conjecture and trying to read into something that is neither provable or perhaps even plausibletake for example that Eve did eat of the fruit. but wait before she ate of the fruit the serpent alluded to God not being honest with Eve about dying should she eat of it. Now many assume that because the garden of Eden was a place of perfection most likely without death. So how could the words "you shall surely die" frighten Adam and Eve if they knew not what death was? Now this is a very logical question: however there is not concrete evidence that either of them knew what death was. Nor is there concrete evidence that just because of God's spoken word that the pain of childbirth would increase that Eve already knew the pain of childbirth...as far as we know it simply meant that there WOULD have been pain but not nearly as much had the sin not been committed of them eating from the forbidden tree. And I do not agree that man does not hate woman. History shows too much hatred of man toward woman to substantiate that statement. Including many men's continual blame of woman to be the cause of all of sin in the first place. IMO
Cherry Picking The Bible
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Ok, Adam and Eve didn't know death. So they didn't tend the animals or eat. They never saw fruit turn brown due to exposer to air and become inedible. They never saw death in any form. God never told them of life and death. This is what your proposing? I think you need to give that a bit more though.
No, I was replying to someone saying that they believe Eve had children before being kicked out of the garden because God said that pain from child birth would increase is no more provable than stating that Adam and Eve feared the Lord's telling them they would die by eating the forbidden fruit because they knew what death was.....
As to pain, without having felt the pain of childbirth before being banned what point of reference would Eve use to determine that the pain had indeed increased? If you had never felt the pain of childbirth and someone told you that for you it would be worse how would you know if they were right or not seeing as you had never experienced a less painful childbirth? Conjecture? No, simple, strait forward, thinking. What could be called a duh moment. Of course she had to have experienced it or else she simply could not understand how it was worse.
absolutely conjecture to state that she had experienced it before simply because God said the pain would be increased...perhaps God had already planned that childbirth would be painful but not as nearly as painful as it was going to be because of her sin....in bold is nothing more than a guess that you are trying to pass off as fact and that isn't how we are to ever translate the Word.Your argument holds no more water than they knowing what death is though they had never seen it or experienced it, and you have made it clear to me that I should give what I said more thought..doesn't fit, you have contradicted yourself with your own argument.And I never said that all men hate women...please don't do that.
What could be called a duh moment
??
No, I was replying to someone saying that they believe Eve had children before being kicked out of the garden because God said that pain from child birth would increase is no more provable than stating that Adam and Eve feared the Lord's telling them they would die by eating the forbidden fruit because they knew what death was.....
As to pain, without having felt the pain of childbirth before being banned what point of reference would Eve use to determine that the pain had indeed increased? If you had never felt the pain of childbirth and someone told you that for you it would be worse how would you know if they were right or not seeing as you had never experienced a less painful childbirth? Conjecture? No, simple, strait forward, thinking. What could be called a duh moment. Of course she had to have experienced it or else she simply could not understand how it was worse.
absolutely conjecture to state that she had experienced it before simply because God said the pain would be increased...perhaps God had already planned that childbirth would be painful but not as nearly as painful as it was going to be because of her sin....in bold is nothing more than a guess that you are trying to pass off as fact and that isn't how we are to ever translate the Word.Your argument holds no more water than they knowing what death is though they had never seen it or experienced it, and you have made it clear to me that I should give what I said more thought..doesn't fit, you have contradicted yourself with your own argument.And I never said that all men hate women...please don't do that.
What could be called a duh moment
??
(Called 2 Conquer;41654)
I find it extremely funny that the title of this thread is cherry picking the bible and what you just did was cherry pick my post, take it out of context and then do nothing more than make unfounded open ended remarks with no counter evidence take back up what you say. Everything I have stated is plausable given the text of the bible and simple connections based on biblical references. All you say is prove it. Well I say prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't because while I made my remarks from the evidence present you just say because the bible didn't address it directly it couldn't be possible. Nice box you have for God.
possibility=conjecture! Possible does not equal fact. I have given no more evidence than you have provided with something that you can merely claim as possible. What you have given is plausable, it does not make it so. Hopefully, you aren't running around telling others who don't know any better that your possibilities are fact or forgetting to tell them that what you are saying is merely a guess at best, for I would have to then state that you may just be a false teacher. As for putting God in a box, you have spoken this to the wrong person as I am completely dead set against putting God in a box and I am as equally dead set against people putting me in a box.I have not cherry picked scripture, but I will cherry pick your words, because taking each one apart would be tedious and futille....be blessed..scripture intrepets itself you would be wise to learn that.
I find it extremely funny that the title of this thread is cherry picking the bible and what you just did was cherry pick my post, take it out of context and then do nothing more than make unfounded open ended remarks with no counter evidence take back up what you say. Everything I have stated is plausable given the text of the bible and simple connections based on biblical references. All you say is prove it. Well I say prove me wrong. Oh wait, you can't because while I made my remarks from the evidence present you just say because the bible didn't address it directly it couldn't be possible. Nice box you have for God.
possibility=conjecture! Possible does not equal fact. I have given no more evidence than you have provided with something that you can merely claim as possible. What you have given is plausable, it does not make it so. Hopefully, you aren't running around telling others who don't know any better that your possibilities are fact or forgetting to tell them that what you are saying is merely a guess at best, for I would have to then state that you may just be a false teacher. As for putting God in a box, you have spoken this to the wrong person as I am completely dead set against putting God in a box and I am as equally dead set against people putting me in a box.I have not cherry picked scripture, but I will cherry pick your words, because taking each one apart would be tedious and futille....be blessed..scripture intrepets itself you would be wise to learn that.
God has put those cherries in the Bible and they are there to us to pick them up. I'm for it. God is a good God. If you don't want them leave them for me,thanks !
All three Abrahamic religions are cherry-picked by the majority of their followers, since all three have holy books that contain a large amount of "bad stuff" and "good stuff".Its impossible to follow any of them with every single verse in-mind. In the end, it relates to the psychology of the person. Those who wish to inflict harm will legitimize what they do through certain passages while those with more moderate tempermants will ignore the bad stuff and concentrate on the good stuff.This is the problem with Islam today and the moderates vs the extremists. A few hundred years ago, Christians were in the same position and were openly following and justifying violence through scripture.The Jews did their fair share of massacring some 2000 years ago, and today many of the Jewish extremists justify the treatment of the Palestinians through the Torah and "Gods promises", although Muslims apparantly believe in the same God.In the end, its all based on faith. There is no reason or logic in faith. If there were, it wouldn't be faith.
(desertdude;36377)
Fryo I have been asking chirstians for some time the EXCACT same thing ,and no one has been able to offer a logical explination for any of this ,Let alone no one has been able to logically explain the trinity the concept of 1=3 or 3=1 .The best explinations have been some flawed analagys. Fryo don't give up on god just yet explore every option avaiable to you and make up your mind ,and if you still think athesism makes the most sense then you are entitled to that belief
I used an egg to explain the Trinity to my children. With an egg you have the white, the yolk, and the shell. You have 3 parts to an egg but you still only have one egg. Hope this helps.
Fryo I have been asking chirstians for some time the EXCACT same thing ,and no one has been able to offer a logical explination for any of this ,Let alone no one has been able to logically explain the trinity the concept of 1=3 or 3=1 .The best explinations have been some flawed analagys. Fryo don't give up on god just yet explore every option avaiable to you and make up your mind ,and if you still think athesism makes the most sense then you are entitled to that belief
I used an egg to explain the Trinity to my children. With an egg you have the white, the yolk, and the shell. You have 3 parts to an egg but you still only have one egg. Hope this helps.
(Fryo;36416)
Okay..Some of these answers are absurd.Here's the thing about the Bible clearly being written by man. Do you think that the men who wrote this had an agenda of their own? Perhaps to control and cause fear? Another thing is that many historians have evidence that some of the Ten Commandments where copied verbatim from the Egyptian Book of the Dead which predates the Bible by 300 years. (Mind you, I think all religions and faiths are man made, so I'm not claiming any legitimacy to the Egyptians and their books and their gods and goddesses.)
Yes, men wrote the Bible. No, they did not have their own "agendas". They were the writing utensil of the Holy Spirit. Basically, God dictated to them, and they wrote down what He told them. You question their validity because you do not believe, which I understand, as I did not believe for 4 years. But now, I know that understanding of the Lord will not come before belief. It will always follow. Not until you submit to Him will the Lord give you the understanding you seek, if you ask Him in prayer.(Fryo;36416)
Take the story of Adam and Eve. This story is filled with absurdities. If God created 2 people, who mated and had children, where does everybody else come? Did God permit incest to populate the world? Because supposedly Kane had a sister and slept with her. But we know that when blood lines are too close, there are defects...But oh yea, I forgot, silly me, they were made to perfection. Geez the guys who wrote this sure weren't stupid and looked out for objections. ; )And if incest was right back then and became wrong later, did God make a mistake in his judgment of condoning incest and then later condemns? No matter which may you look at it, it's still incest.
You phrase your questions so that all answers will seem wrong. That is not the correct way to debate someone. But, anyway, the reason the story of Adam and Eve does not seem valid to you is, again, because you do not believe. God is all-powerful. He reacts to people turning against Him. Have you ever considered that birth defects are due to the way the world has turned/is turning against the Lord? You probably think all my answers are absurd, but that is because you have not opened your heart or eyes to the Truth.(Fryo;36416)
This story is also laced with misogyny, and misogynistic teaching are throughout the Bible. That story is supposedly why women feel pain during child birth (ridiculous)that women are supposedly cursed for causing the sin of all man, and are to submit to men! Why is most of the brunt toward women and not so much men? Does this God believe in equality?
I do not believe in the equality of men and women. Men and women are not equal. Women cannot do everything men can do, and men cannot do everything women can do. We were not made to be equal. Men typically think through logic, while most women typically think through emotion. Therefore, it is not absurd to ask that women consult their fathers/husbands before making a decision. Two heads are better than one. Many men are condemned in the Bible for wrong-doings. The Bible does not put "most of the brunt toward women". Read about all the men who turn against God and the consequences they face. Then you will see what I mean.(Fryo;36416)
And let's talk about the logic of this God. If supposedly he made all of us, knows us, knew us, controls, intervenes, knows every word, thought, action past, present and future tense, heck, he already knows who's gonna to heaven and hell. (Another topic I must get around to). Then why does he bother? Him knowing all these things negates the idea of free will doesn't it? There is no such as free will if this God already knows and planned everything out.
Though I don't believe our human logic will ever be able to comprehend God, His Will, His Power, or His Word completely, you can gain more understanding through prayer. Yes, God made us. God does not already know who will go to Hell and who will go to Heaven from birth. We do have free will. God has a plan for each and every one of us that will lead us to Heaven with Him. It's all right there. God has the road map. The problem is that there is sin in the world. The devil manipulates our free will and causes us to sin, which turns us against God. We have to pray that God will lead us down the path He has chosen. Too often, we ask for God to make certain things in our lives occur. That is wrong. To pray for what we WANT is wrong. We should, instead, pray that God will carry out His Plan in our lives. God will not ask us to do things without putting desire in our hearts. So, He will not give a pastor the urge to create a missionary exposition without putting the desire to do so in his heart. So you see, God wants to carry out His plan in our lives. We are the ones that don't let Him.(Fryo;36416)
I will not claim to know this God's mind or see things through his eyes because, I can't! I can't claim to know anyones mind! I'm only applying basic common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning and I'm looking at it as it, and analyzing it.
You can't apply common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning to God. These are all human things. He operates on a completely different level. You can only begin to see specks of it through spiritual enlightenment and the acceptance of Jesus into your life and heart.I pray that God will bring you to Him and give you understanding of Him. In Jesus' Name, amen.
ray3: Victoria
Okay..Some of these answers are absurd.Here's the thing about the Bible clearly being written by man. Do you think that the men who wrote this had an agenda of their own? Perhaps to control and cause fear? Another thing is that many historians have evidence that some of the Ten Commandments where copied verbatim from the Egyptian Book of the Dead which predates the Bible by 300 years. (Mind you, I think all religions and faiths are man made, so I'm not claiming any legitimacy to the Egyptians and their books and their gods and goddesses.)
Yes, men wrote the Bible. No, they did not have their own "agendas". They were the writing utensil of the Holy Spirit. Basically, God dictated to them, and they wrote down what He told them. You question their validity because you do not believe, which I understand, as I did not believe for 4 years. But now, I know that understanding of the Lord will not come before belief. It will always follow. Not until you submit to Him will the Lord give you the understanding you seek, if you ask Him in prayer.(Fryo;36416)
Take the story of Adam and Eve. This story is filled with absurdities. If God created 2 people, who mated and had children, where does everybody else come? Did God permit incest to populate the world? Because supposedly Kane had a sister and slept with her. But we know that when blood lines are too close, there are defects...But oh yea, I forgot, silly me, they were made to perfection. Geez the guys who wrote this sure weren't stupid and looked out for objections. ; )And if incest was right back then and became wrong later, did God make a mistake in his judgment of condoning incest and then later condemns? No matter which may you look at it, it's still incest.
You phrase your questions so that all answers will seem wrong. That is not the correct way to debate someone. But, anyway, the reason the story of Adam and Eve does not seem valid to you is, again, because you do not believe. God is all-powerful. He reacts to people turning against Him. Have you ever considered that birth defects are due to the way the world has turned/is turning against the Lord? You probably think all my answers are absurd, but that is because you have not opened your heart or eyes to the Truth.(Fryo;36416)
This story is also laced with misogyny, and misogynistic teaching are throughout the Bible. That story is supposedly why women feel pain during child birth (ridiculous)that women are supposedly cursed for causing the sin of all man, and are to submit to men! Why is most of the brunt toward women and not so much men? Does this God believe in equality?
I do not believe in the equality of men and women. Men and women are not equal. Women cannot do everything men can do, and men cannot do everything women can do. We were not made to be equal. Men typically think through logic, while most women typically think through emotion. Therefore, it is not absurd to ask that women consult their fathers/husbands before making a decision. Two heads are better than one. Many men are condemned in the Bible for wrong-doings. The Bible does not put "most of the brunt toward women". Read about all the men who turn against God and the consequences they face. Then you will see what I mean.(Fryo;36416)
And let's talk about the logic of this God. If supposedly he made all of us, knows us, knew us, controls, intervenes, knows every word, thought, action past, present and future tense, heck, he already knows who's gonna to heaven and hell. (Another topic I must get around to). Then why does he bother? Him knowing all these things negates the idea of free will doesn't it? There is no such as free will if this God already knows and planned everything out.
Though I don't believe our human logic will ever be able to comprehend God, His Will, His Power, or His Word completely, you can gain more understanding through prayer. Yes, God made us. God does not already know who will go to Hell and who will go to Heaven from birth. We do have free will. God has a plan for each and every one of us that will lead us to Heaven with Him. It's all right there. God has the road map. The problem is that there is sin in the world. The devil manipulates our free will and causes us to sin, which turns us against God. We have to pray that God will lead us down the path He has chosen. Too often, we ask for God to make certain things in our lives occur. That is wrong. To pray for what we WANT is wrong. We should, instead, pray that God will carry out His Plan in our lives. God will not ask us to do things without putting desire in our hearts. So, He will not give a pastor the urge to create a missionary exposition without putting the desire to do so in his heart. So you see, God wants to carry out His plan in our lives. We are the ones that don't let Him.(Fryo;36416)
I will not claim to know this God's mind or see things through his eyes because, I can't! I can't claim to know anyones mind! I'm only applying basic common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning and I'm looking at it as it, and analyzing it.
You can't apply common sense, logic, understanding, and reasoning to God. These are all human things. He operates on a completely different level. You can only begin to see specks of it through spiritual enlightenment and the acceptance of Jesus into your life and heart.I pray that God will bring you to Him and give you understanding of Him. In Jesus' Name, amen.
ray3: VictoriaThe Jews did their fair share of massacring some 2000 years ago, and today many of the Jewish extremists justify the treatment of the Palestinians through the Torah and "Gods promises", although Muslims apparantly believe in the same God.
I would watch stepping on toes if I were you. You want to speak of massacre speak of your Hitler that killed 6 million Jews...Jews are not justifying anything agianst the Palestinians with the Torah or any thing else.....Israel is defending its land that was promised by G-d to them. What is it with you? Muslims, Jews, Christains is there any faith you have not blasted yet other than your affection for Hinduism and the Great Buddha. Study your history books Titus in 70 AD massacred Jews and others. The Jews have known massacre all their lives because people have such an indifference toward them. I do not take offense to most post here but that crossed the line and I do not mine saying so. They have known nothing but adversity and hate and I do not see them here bashing our faith no matter what it is.
I would watch stepping on toes if I were you. You want to speak of massacre speak of your Hitler that killed 6 million Jews...Jews are not justifying anything agianst the Palestinians with the Torah or any thing else.....Israel is defending its land that was promised by G-d to them. What is it with you? Muslims, Jews, Christains is there any faith you have not blasted yet other than your affection for Hinduism and the Great Buddha. Study your history books Titus in 70 AD massacred Jews and others. The Jews have known massacre all their lives because people have such an indifference toward them. I do not take offense to most post here but that crossed the line and I do not mine saying so. They have known nothing but adversity and hate and I do not see them here bashing our faith no matter what it is.
adren@line Im going to warn you once to knock off your attitude if you have questions ask them but anymore remarks like the ones I have deleted and you will be banned STAFF MEMBERkriss
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