Christian Idealism

[robert derrick]

You are still lying about what OSAS teaches from Gods Word. You believe in sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed with not even anano second of failure. One would need perfect knowledge of all SCripture, perfect knowledge of all that is right and wrong to never sin again. As none of us have attained to memorizing SCripture and follow the Spirit in every little thing. God gives us 1 John 1:9.

We believe and teach and preach with a vengeance holiness! We are redeemed. The difference between you and Biblical OSAS believers is that we also know the mercy of God and god looks upon the heart and will forgive 70X7 a day.

We reject grace as a license to sin, but grace as a license to grow in grace and holiness. YOu are way too legalistic to be one who teaches.

You believe in sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed with not even anano second of failure.

Lying about what is being taught does not help to correct anyone.

To call doing righteousness at all times, 'sinless perfection', will not excuse your going on still in your unrighteous sins and trespasses again and again in enmity against God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

It is impossible for Christian idealists such as yourself to ever repent of committing sins in this life, because you don't believe the Scripture to do so, but only give agreeable lip service to it.

And knowingly lying about the teaching of Scripture to do so seals your disobedience unto the end.

I thank my Lord and God, that I was never a child hearing your teaching:

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

 

[robert derrick]

If that's the truth, that you've done what you ought not to do, then it's best to just acknowledge that in humility.

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Jesus ever lives to make intercession.

Much love!

If that's the truth, that you've done what you ought not to do, then it's best to just acknowledge that in humility.

I haven't done what I ought not, because I haven't done what you want and confess to being like you.

The most childish thing any person can ever do, is to base their belief in teaching of Scripture upon whether others are doing it or not.

If the teaching is true of Scripture, then we are bound to obey it for our own soul's sake. If it is not Scriptural truth, then we are not to obey it at all.

If obeying God at all times is the answer to a teaching, then that teaching is certainly true of Scripture.

And if still obeying sin is the answer to a teaching, then that teaching certainly is not the truth of Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You believe in sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed with not even anano second of failure.

Lying about what is being taught does not help to correct anyone.

To call doing righteousness at all times, 'sinless perfection', will not excuse your going on still in your unrighteous sins and trespasses again and again in enmity against God:

But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.

It is impossible for Christian idealists such as yourself to ever repent of committing sins in this life, because you don't believe the Scripture to do so, but only give agreeable lip service to it.

And knowingly lying about the teaching of Scripture to do so seals your disobedience unto the end.

I thank my Lord and God, that I was never a child hearing your teaching:

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Well I will let the accumulated lies you have uttered about me and what I believe make this my last post to you.

You lack honor, character and integrity in my opinion. I will let the Lord judge between you and me. Have the last post if you wish, I am through with you bearing false witness about me in your self righteous role as pseudo prophet. YOu are ow free to go and assassinate someone elses character.

 

[robert derrick]

I just keep thinking about Paul's words,

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If Paul did not consider himself to be properly qualified to state whether he was or was not faultless, because he knew better than to think he was an accurate judge of himself.

And if that's the case, what should we say about the person who thinks that they ARE an accurate judge of themself? "I know me . . . and I'm blameless!" That they are in denial? That's how it seems to me. And if someone is in denial about this basic truth concerning understanding ourselves and our righteousness, then what else may they be in denial over?

Perhaps anything that may go against that basic notion of sinlessness?

Much love!

I just keep thinking about Paul's words.

The problem is you keep thinking about idealized views about what Scripture says.

If Paul did not consider himself to be properly qualified to state whether he was or was not faultless,

Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe.

because he knew better than to think he was an accurate judge of himself.

For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

Christian idealists are truly blind to what all Scripture says, because they only want to see what they think about things in their own idealized world of Christianity.

And so they will never ever be corrected by the truth of any Scripture that says otherwise.

"I know me . . . and I'm blameless!" That they are in denial?

Other than denying Christ by their works, them that declare they are sinners and certainly not blameless are not in denial about themselves at all, but only speak the truth.

OSAS idealism is created that they may also have deniability with God for it: "it's true we are commanded to sin not and do His righteousness at all times, but certainly not possible in this life."

Perhaps anything that may go against that basic notion of sinlessness?

Idealists must accuse doing righteousness at all times, as 'sinlessness', in order to maintain their ideals of themselves as Christian sinners on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

When I think of "Christian Idealism", I think of this:

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Knowing that we will become like Jesus when we see Him is what leads us to personal purity in our lifes. Knowing the successful end of our live is what enable us to live successfully now.

Denying such "knowledge", as if the outcome of our Christianity were not assured, denies ourselves this purifying hope. With what then shall we be pure?

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

The One Who will transform us like unto His glorious Self does so by the SAME power that is able to conquer ANY sin in us TODAY.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 KJV
30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Sanctification is Jesus' work in us, that our glory is in Him. Would you suppose that Jesus wants us sanctified? Would you suppose that Jesus delays in our sanctification? Would you suppose Jesus is unable to perform our sanctification? Our glory is truly in Him! Or do we think to rob Him of that glory as we make our boast in ourself?

Romans 6:4-7 KJV
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Literally, He that is dead is justified away from sin. "Put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness." Justified away from sin, that is, made righteous to move us away from sin. Passed from death into life. Transferred from the power of darkness to the kingdom of the Beloved Son.

Made new. Now live that way.

Colossians 3:1-5 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

BECAUSE your life is hid with Christ in God, BECAUSE you WILL appear with Him in glory, for this reason, put to death the parts of you on the earth. BECAUSE you know the outcome of your baptism into Christ, for that very reason, put off the old man, and put on the new.

So my idea of Christian Idealism is that God in Christ has given to us an ideal existence, and therefore, let us live worthy of it, in an ideal manner.

Much love!

When I think of "Christian Idealism", I think of this:

I agree. Christian idealists know what their idealism is, and can explain it better than any Christian saint.

Knowing that we will become like Jesus when we see Him is what leads us to personal purity in our lives.

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to be pure in all things, but in reality they know it is not possible, and so they have a less than ideal purity in life, while still going on in sins and trespasses.

Knowing the successful end of our live is what enable us to live successfully now.

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to run the race lawfully and endure hardship unto the end, that we may obtain the prize of eternal salvation, but in reality they know it is not possible.

So they have a less than ideal version of the race, with a consolation prize is guaranteed for trying but failing again and again.

Denying such "knowledge", as if the outcome of our Christianity were not assured, denies ourselves this purifying hope.

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to be like Christ in all things, denying ourselves with no commitment to sin, but since they know that is not possible in this life, then they make for themselves a less than ideal Christianity of their own.

With what then shall we be pure?

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to purify ourselves and be pure as He is pure and walk with Him in the Light, where there is no darkness at all, but since they know this is not possible in this world, then they have a less than ideal hope of being granted what they are not worthy of in the next life: to walk with Him in white forever.

The One Who will transform us like unto His glorious Self does so by the SAME power that is able to conquer ANY sin in us TODAY.

Ideally according to Scripture, we are given power to become sons of God and overcome all sins of the world today, but since they know that is not possible, then they settle for a less than ideal Christianity of good sinners that repent of some sins today, while knowing they will do other sins tomorrow.

Would you suppose Jesus is unable to perform our sanctification? Or do we think to rob Him of that glory as we make our boast in ourself?

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to sanctify our heart and bodies according to His sanctification of the Spirit, but since they know that is not possible to do in all things, then they settle for a less than ideal Christianity of waiting for God to do what we ought do ourselves.

And to keep that lesser ideal of sanctification justified, they accuse the sons that do so themselves with God, as being boasters robbing God of 'that glory'.

(As promised, I let you know I will be quoting you in the thread about 'Our Part in Our Salvation'.)

Literally, He that is dead is justified away from sin. "Put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness." Justified away from sin, that is, made righteous to move us away from sin. Made new. Now live that way.

Ideally according to Scripture, we are to live that way in all things to sin no more, but since they know that is not entirely possible on earth, then they settle for their lesser version of being partly clothed in Christ, while yet remain partly clothed with the old man of sin.

Their ideal hope is to finish being clothed by Jesus Himself in a moment and twinkling of an eye, that He can then hastily present them blameless without spot to God.

So my idea of Christian Idealism is that God in Christ has given to us an ideal existence, and therefore, let us live worthy of it, in an ideal manner.

Beautiful. No Christian idealist could ever say it better, and no Christian saint would ever think like that, much less say it.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Well, sort of, in an ideal version of it.

Christian idealism is sort of being like Christ: good sinners with high ideals about Jesus Christ, but not the sort to obey Him in all things.

The only thing not ideal to Christian idealists, is believing it possible to obey all Scripture as written, because it's really not possible to do so.

And so Ideally? Since they know it's not possible, they just do the best they can as the ideal version of good sinners on earth.

 

[robert derrick]

I just keep thinking about Paul's words,

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If Paul did not consider himself to be properly qualified to state whether he was or was not faultless, because he knew better than to think he was an accurate judge of himself.

And if that's the case, what should we say about the person who thinks that they ARE an accurate judge of themself? "I know me . . . and I'm blameless!" That they are in denial? That's how it seems to me. And if someone is in denial about this basic truth concerning understanding ourselves and our righteousness, then what else may they be in denial over?

Perhaps anything that may go against that basic notion of sinlessness?

Much love!

And if that's the case, what should we say about the person who thinks that they ARE an accurate judge of themself? "I know me . . . and I'm blameless!"

OSAS: "I can't judge me, so I don't know me, but one thing I do know about me, is that I certainly am NOT blameless!!"

Hooray.

 

[robert derrick]

Well blameless is different from faultless. We can be guilty of sin, but by acknowledging it and seeking proper forgiveness and restitution (whatever level that may be ) we remain blameless. I tend to be blameless though far from faultless.

Well blameless is different from faultless.

More Christian sophistry playing word games with God and Scripture.

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

Blameless, faultless, and unreproveable are all the same to God in Scripture, and His people are to be so in this life, that they may be found so and presented as such in the next.

Only the blameless and faultless before Him will be preserved forever by Him. Those to be blamed and full of fault are reserved for judgment and appointed to wrath:

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I tend to be blameless...

Classic Christian idealism: always tending and trending, but never ever being.

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.

though far from faultless.

And plainly proud of it too! Humbly so of course.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Those far from faultless are full of blame and far from God and need to repent of their trespasses against God and His people.

I will let the Lord judge between you and me.

Actually it is Scripture that judges all things, and God judges all souls accordingly.

And since OSAS proves it is against Scripture at absolutely every turn, then OSAS is condemned already:

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

YOu are now free to go and assassinate someone else's character.

Self-confessed sinful trespassers with plenty of fault against God and man does all it's own self-assassination: OSAS is spiritual suicide.

Falling on the sword of shame is not taking up the cross for Christ.

Scripture condemns no innocent saint, but only guilty sinners who openly judge themselves unworthy with plenty of blame to go around.

 

[quietthinker]

Well blameless is different from faultless.

Straining at knats and swallowing camels Robert!

 

[robert derrick]

Straining at knats and swallowing camels Robert!

Tell that to the one who came up with it.

The pit of OSAS excuses for sin probably bottomless, until the day of the Lord, when all such folly ends.

 

[quietthinker]

Tell that to the one who came up with it.

The pit of OSAS excuses for sin probably bottomless, until the day of the Lord, when all such folly ends.

Under the banner of piety the Pharisee's had lots to say about 'the rabble'.
The Pharisee's incidentally were seen as the good guys in the eyes of the public. They were the ones zealous for keeping the commandments of God.....they made lots of 'noise' about it.
We however have the enlightened perspective offered by Jesus.....and who can know it?

The countless diversions and flaws the theories men come up with are not combated by telling the world how wrong they all are but by holding up the light which exposes error in its own right......but what constitutes light is the big question?

 

[robert derrick]

Under the banner of piety the Pharisee's had lots to say about 'the rabble'.
The Pharisee's incidentally were seen as the good guys in the eyes of the public. They were the ones zealous for keeping the commandments of God.....they made lots of 'noise' about it.
We however have the enlightened perspective offered by Jesus.

The countless diversions and flaws the theories men come up with are not combated by telling the world how wrong they all are but by holding up the light which exposes error in its own right......but what constitutes light is the big question?

The Pharisee's incidentally were seen as the good guys in the eyes of the public.

The Pharisees were seen as the good guys by the Pharisees, and because they had the rulers with them, then they were feared by the average Jew, which is what made John and Jesus so unique: they plainly declared their hypocrisy to their faces in public.

They were the ones zealous for keeping the commandments of God...

They were zealous for keeping their own traditions, rules, and commandments of men, not of God.

The countless diversions and flaws the theories men come up with are not combated by telling the world how wrong they all are.

The countless diversions and flaws the theories men come up with are not combated by telling the world how wrong they all are but by holding up the light which exposes error in its own right....

We don't combat the errors of the world, but rather the false doctrines of men claiming the faith of Jesus.

.but what constitutes light is the big question?

It's called 'Scripture'.

Apparently idealism doesn't even know where the Light of truth is found.

 

[quietthinker]

I see three pointing back!

 

[robert derrick]

I see three pointing back!

All fingers of Scripture are pointed at me first, and at all times, because I love the correction of all Scripture.

My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction.

You're an idealist and philosopher.

And your philosophical arguments are only examples to be exposed and corrected by Scripture.

The only issue I would have with you, is that I can't be corrected by someone that does not read Scripture as the perfect truth to be understood and obeyed.

I have no illusion about correcting you personally, so don't take it personal.

 

[quietthinker]

All fingers of Scripture are pointed at me first, and at all times, because I love the correction of all Scripture.

My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction.

You're an idealist and philosopher.

And your philosophical arguments are only examples to be exposed and corrected by Scripture.

The only issue I would have with you, is that I can't be corrected by someone that does not read Scripture as the perfect truth to be understood and obeyed.

I have no illusion about correcting you personally, so don't take it personal.

...have you added a fourth finger?