Christian Idealism

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robert derrick

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Christian Idealism is hearers of the gospel of Christ, and agree that Scripture is the Word of God, but they do not obey the Word as God.

Doesn't an expectation of being justified or partly justified because of your works, doesn't that show a desire and intention of "self-justification", seeing that we are NOT God, and therefore do not share His righteous judgment?

Being as He is in this life is a highly laudable idea, but certainly not attainable.

OSAS includes the idea that though none of us may cease entirely from sin in this lifetime, that even so, the grace of God is sufficient to save.

They agree with the need to be saved from their sins in theory only, and then go on to invent their own idea of Christianity and living by faith in this life.

Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.

They read the same Scriptures as all Christians, but they do not obey all Scripture as commandment of God to do it even as written:

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

For Christian idealists, the Gospel of the cross is high ideal and lofty ambition only, but no Christian can be expected to perfectly obey it as written.

Being washed in the blood of the Lamb of God is a great idea, but in no way can any Christian be washed completely and perfectly clean from their sins on earth.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Being as Jesus is in this life is a good idea for Christians to identify with, but the Scripture cannot possibly be a commandment to prove it by living as He did in the flesh.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

They have no desire to even consider the Scriptures as written, that they may understand how to possibly do them in purity of faith, righteousness, and true holiness of life.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

They wilfully deny themselves, as well as any others, the power of the Spirit to become sons of God in deed and in truth.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Their idea of grace is to cover their sins, not to be the help of God to overcome them.

They are satisfied to remain Christian idealists only, with their own ideas of how to be a Christian in this life, which never includes ceasing from their sins and trespasses.

The only fervency they have in Christianity is in denouncing them that preach doing the perfect word, and not being idealist hearers only: all such preaching and exhortation is condemned as self-righteous and proud boasting of 'sinlessness'.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
 
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quietthinker

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Christian Idealism
Yeah, I'm the only one who has it right!
 

robert derrick

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We do our utmost to pattern our lives after him 1 Pet 2:21, but for now we have to recognize that is an impossibility.

The perfect definition of Christian idealists.

It's all about how much utmost they have, instead of how much power to the uttermost God has for them that receive the perfect seed of Jesus Christ into the heart, to purify and cleanse completely and wholly from lust of the world.

Idealists in the Christian religion are always speaking of 'their' relationship with God, and how they are trying to 'live up' to His standard of righteousness and true holiness, and so never speak of His power to do so and become sons of God having fellowship with Him in the Light, where there is no darkness of sins and trespasses at all:

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
 

robert derrick

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And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh.

Christian idealist don't 'really' believe it is possible to do the word as written, except in theory only.

The word is not in the heart to 'really' do it, but only in their mind to agree with it.

Their faith in the word of God to do it is only theoretical.

Faith alone, being dead, would also be called faith in theory only.

Idealists believe Jesus did in the flesh what they cannot possibly do in this life. The example He made in obedience to the Father unto the cross is too high for them to do likewise.

His example in the flesh was only an ideal to 'emulate' as best man can do, but nothing that can actually be done by His people on earth.

Idealists don't actually walk in His steps, but only approximate them with their own.

That is why the Scriptures will never be obeyed as written, because they are only ideals and not commandments.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

Idealists only have power to approximate being sons of God.

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.


Idealists can only be as righteous and do the righteousness they are capable of in this life, not as He is righteous in deed and in truth.

Which of course is the very definition of man's righteousness and filthy rags to God.

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Idealists only love God in an ideal Christianity of their own making, not in deed and in truth.

God is not an unjust judge to command His people to do what they cannot possibly do.

No wonder there is no judgment upon ideal Christian sinners, when they continue to commit sins against God, because they do not believe they can possibly obey Him as commanded in Scripture, and therefore cannot possibly be judged for disobeying Him contrary to the Scripture.

and I don't think I've come across anyone in my life of whom I would think this was so.

It really isn't wise to read Scripture with ourselves and others as our guiding light for doing it or not.

When we stop thinking of Scripture as a bright idea only, but as it is: the commandment of God to His people to obey, then we may begin to do so and cease justifying our continued sinfulness.

It takes an honest heart first, before we can ever become good ground for Jesus Christ and His perfect seed of God.

But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

God's commandment of Scripture is to be obeyed in deed and in truth, not idealized into unattainable goals.

Eternal salvation is for them that obey Jesus, not just idolize His 'ideal' life on earth.

For Christian idealists, Jesus' life on earth is simply something to idolize, but not 'really' live and do.
 
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Robert Gwin

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Christian Idealism is hearers of the gospel of Christ, and agree that Scripture is the Word of God, but they do not obey the Word as God.

Doesn't an expectation of being justified or partly justified because of your works, doesn't that show a desire and intention of "self-justification", seeing that we are NOT God, and therefore do not share His righteous judgment?

Being as He is in this life is a highly laudable idea, but certainly not attainable.

OSAS includes the idea that though none of us may cease entirely from sin in this lifetime, that even so, the grace of God is sufficient to save.

They agree with the need to be saved from their sins in theory only, and then go on to invent their own idea of Christianity and living by faith in this life.

Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.

They read the same Scriptures as all Christians, but they do not obey all Scripture as commandment of God to do it even as written:

I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way. O when wilt thou come unto me? I will walk within my house with a perfect heart.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

For Christian idealists, the Gospel of the cross is high ideal and lofty ambition only, but no Christian can be expected to perfectly obey it as written.

Being washed in the blood of the Lamb of God is a great idea, but in no way can any Christian be washed completely and perfectly clean from their sins on earth.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

Being as Jesus is in this life is a good idea for Christians to identify with, but the Scripture cannot possibly be a commandment to prove it by living as He did in the flesh.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

They have no desire to even consider the Scriptures as written, that they may understand how to possibly do them in purity of faith, righteousness, and true holiness of life.

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

They wilfully deny themselves, as well as any others, the power of the Spirit to become sons of God in deed and in truth.

For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Their idea of grace is to cover their sins, not to be the help of God to overcome them.

They are satisfied to remain Christian idealists only, with their own ideas of how to be a Christian in this life, which never includes ceasing from their sins and trespasses.

The only fervency they have in Christianity is in denouncing them that preach doing the perfect word, and not being idealist hearers only: all such preaching and exhortation is condemned as self-righteous and proud boasting of 'sinlessness'.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Jehovah gave His word as a manual for life. Like you say, most reject it, in fact few know it, but all are obligated to obey it if they desire salvation. So wisdom would reveal that one should Proverbs 2:1-6 urges: “My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment; if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment.”
 

robert derrick

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Jehovah gave His word as a manual for life. Like you say, most reject it, in fact few know it, but all are obligated to obey it if they desire salvation. So wisdom would reveal that one should Proverbs 2:1-6 urges: “My son, if you will receive my sayings and treasure up my own commandments with yourself, so as to pay attention to wisdom with your ear, that you may incline your heart to discernment; if, moreover, you call out for understanding itself and you give forth your voice for discernment itself, if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it, in that case you will understand the fear of Jehovah, and you will find the very knowledge of God. For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; out of his mouth there are knowledge and discernment.”
but all are obligated to obey it if they desire salvation.

And we cannot possibly obey that which we believe cannot be possibly obeyed as written.

And so Christian idealists fulfill the warning of Heb 6:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is impossible to repent of something that we believe is not possible to repent of, which results in unrepented sin unto death.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are to pray for one another seeking repentance from sin, but it is vain to do so for them that have no faith to repent, and therefore do not seek it.
 

marks

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And just to be clear, I don't consider sinlessness to be something impossible for a man to be, only, I don't find that to be portrayed in the Bible as being something that will be a reality for anyone who yet lives in flesh.

Christian idealist don't 'really' believe it is possible to do the word as written, except in theory only.
Generally I feel it polite to acknowledge when you quote me. But since you turn right around and misrepresent me, maybe the lack of attribution isn't a big deal. You are dealing dishonestly with me. Is that "Ideal"?

Much love!
 
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marks

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and I don't think I've come across anyone in my life of whom I would think this was so.

So if you ever wonder why I say such things, there's your answer.

It seems to me that you "triggered" as soon as I identified with OSAS, and after that, you've persisted in these inaccurate statements that I believe we "must" sin, that sin is "inevitable", regardless of what I say to you to the contrary.

It's not a real discussion. The fact is, for all I know, I have a more sure belief in our power over sin than do you, but what stupidity to start talking on those lines!

This has every appearance of you having started a thread for the purpose of first misrepresenting me, and then arguing against your misrepresentation, the true Straw Man.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Idealists only have power to approximate being sons of God.

You then are describing those who are not Christians. So what really are you saying? OH, I think I get it! But here is what the Bible says.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Much love!
 

robert derrick

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Generally I feel it polite to acknowledge when you quote me. But since you turn right around and misrepresent me, maybe the lack of attribution isn't a big deal. You are dealing dishonestly with me. Is that "Ideal"?

Much love!
All posts are public and for public use. There is no rule demanding anyone be notified of posting their comments. I do not include names when I do so, if it is not in direct response to them, because it doesn't matter to the teaching. Our words stand alone and are open for dispute and discussion by anyone else. If you are offended at this, then you shouldn't be posting in a public site.

I love others as myself, and you are free to quote anything I say at anytime you wish. But, so as to not cause offense in future, I will notify you beforehand and where I will post your comments.

And since you don't show how you are misrepresented, then I haven't done so.

So if you ever wonder why I say such things, there's your answer.

Right. So, if I apologize and renounce my words, then what? You become a true and good son of God obeying Him in all things today? No, of course not, but rather I become once again another child of disobedience like you.

Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

The reason you say such things is because of your own answer to Scripture of God: you give lip service to it as 'possible', but just not in this life.

In future, when you do say something, you need to be clear and not deceptive in your answers.

You believe it is possible only at the resurrection. You do not believe it is possible in this life.

Which is false unbelief in Scripture of God, who does command all men everywhere to repent. Not in part, but in all things with all the heart loving Him. Not in part.
 

robert derrick

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You then are describing those who are not Christians. So what really are you saying? OH, I think I get it! But here is what the Bible says.

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Much love!
You then are describing those who are not Christians.

Not Christian saints.

But since they call themselves Christians, I'll not deny them the name tag: Christian idealists.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God

For those that don't believe they can be a son of God obeying Him in all things in this life, then 'Now' does not apply them.

God doesn't now have disobedient sons, which He calls the children of disobedience.

but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

For those who live like Him now, they shall look like Him then.

For those who are not like Him now, they shall not be like Him then, except they repent now.

While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


The deceitfulness of sin is to think we will be resurrected in His likeness, while we refuse to obey Him like He obeyed the Father in this life.

And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Today, beginning with the heart:

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
 

Ronald Nolette

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OSAS includes the idea that though none of us may cease entirely from sin in this lifetime, that even so, the grace of God is sufficient to save.

They agree with the need to be saved from their sins in theory only, and then go on to invent their own idea of Christianity and living by faith in this life.

You are still lying about what OSAS teaches from Gods Word. You believe in sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed with not even anano second of failure. One would need perfect knowledge of all SCripture, perfect knowledge of all that is right and wrong to never sin again. As none of us have attained to memorizing SCripture and follow the Spirit in every little thing. God gives us 1 John 1:9.

We believe and teach and preach with a vengeance holiness! We are redeemed. The difference between you and Biblical OSAS believers is that we also know the mercy of God and god looks upon the heart and will forgive 70X7 a day.

We reject grace as a license to sin, but grace as a license to grow in grace and holiness. YOu are way too legalistic to be one who teaches.
 

marks

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but rather I become once again another child of disobedience like you.

If that's the truth, that you've done what you ought not to do, then it's best to just acknowledge that in humility.

Isaiah 66:1-2 KJV
1) Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?
2) For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

Jesus ever lives to make intercession.

Much love!
 

marks

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You are still lying about what OSAS teaches from Gods Word. You believe in sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed with not even anano second of failure. One would need perfect knowledge of all SCripture, perfect knowledge of all that is right and wrong to never sin again. As none of us have attained to memorizing SCripture and follow the Spirit in every little thing. God gives us 1 John 1:9.
I just keep thinking about Paul's words,

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If Paul did not consider himself to be properly qualified to state whether he was or was not faultless, because he knew better than to think he was an accurate judge of himself.

And if that's the case, what should we say about the person who thinks that they ARE an accurate judge of themself? "I know me . . . and I'm blameless!" That they are in denial? That's how it seems to me. And if someone is in denial about this basic truth concerning understanding ourselves and our righteousness, then what else may they be in denial over?

Perhaps anything that may go against that basic notion of sinlessness?

Much love!
 

marks

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So if you ever wonder why I say such things, there's your answer.

Right. So, if I apologize and renounce my words, then what?
Then you are living in reality. And we can correct this and move on.

Much love!
 

marks

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When I think of "Christian Idealism", I think of this:

1 John 3:1-3 KJV
1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Knowing that we will become like Jesus when we see Him is what leads us to personal purity in our lifes. Knowing the successful end of our live is what enable us to live successfully now.

Denying such "knowledge", as if the outcome of our Christianity were not assured, denies ourselves this purifying hope. With what then shall we be pure?

Philippians 3:20-21 LITV
20) For our citizenship is in Heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
21) who will transform our body of humiliation, for it to be conformed to His body of glory, according to the working of Him to be able even to subject all things under Himself.

The One Who will transform us like unto His glorious Self does so by the SAME power that is able to conquer ANY sin in us TODAY.

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 KJV
30) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31) That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Sanctification is Jesus' work in us, that our glory is in Him. Would you suppose that Jesus wants us sanctified? Would you suppose that Jesus delays in our sanctification? Would you suppose Jesus is unable to perform our sanctification? Our glory is truly in Him! Or do we think to rob Him of that glory as we make our boast in ourself?

Romans 6:4-7 KJV
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Literally, He that is dead is justified away from sin. "Put on the new man, which is created patterned after God, in righteousness and true holiness." Justified away from sin, that is, made righteous to move us away from sin. Passed from death into life. Transferred from the power of darkness to the kingdom of the Beloved Son.

Made new. Now live that way.

Colossians 3:1-5 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
5) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

BECAUSE your life is hid with Christ in God, BECAUSE you WILL appear with Him in glory, for this reason, put to death the parts of you on the earth. BECAUSE you know the outcome of your baptism into Christ, for that very reason, put off the old man, and put on the new.

So my idea of Christian Idealism is that God in Christ has given to us an ideal existence, and therefore, let us live worthy of it, in an ideal manner.

Much love!
 
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Robert Gwin

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but all are obligated to obey it if they desire salvation.

And we cannot possibly obey that which we believe cannot be possibly obeyed as written.

And so Christian idealists fulfill the warning of Heb 6:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

It is impossible to repent of something that we believe is not possible to repent of, which results in unrepented sin unto death.

If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

We are to pray for one another seeking repentance from sin, but it is vain to do so for them that have no faith to repent, and therefore do not seek it.

Amen Robert! Couldn't agree more sir. But take heart, the door is not shut yet, more and more individuals are reached daily, and Jehovah will not let one righteous individual be destroyed with the wicked. Gen 18:23-33
 

marks

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1 Peter 4:10-11 KJV
10) As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good (from Kalos, Ideal) stewards of the manifold grace of God.
11) If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Much love!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Aug 24, 2020
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I just keep thinking about Paul's words,

1 Corinthians 4:1-5 KJV
1) Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2) Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
3) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
4) For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
5) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

If Paul did not consider himself to be properly qualified to state whether he was or was not faultless, because he knew better than to think he was an accurate judge of himself.

And if that's the case, what should we say about the person who thinks that they ARE an accurate judge of themself? "I know me . . . and I'm blameless!" That they are in denial? That's how it seems to me. And if someone is in denial about this basic truth concerning understanding ourselves and our righteousness, then what else may they be in denial over?

Perhaps anything that may go against that basic notion of sinlessness?

Much love!

Well blameless is different from faultless. We can be guilty of sin, but by acknowledging it and seeking proper forgiveness and restitution (whatever level that may be ) we remain blameless. I tend to be blameless though far from faultless.
 
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