Christian: Liberal or Conservative?

[Strat]

I don't listen to Limbaugh,he is an entertainer and i don't require entertainment
I don't have medicare and social security will be bankrupt by the time i retire which i will never do because i can't afford to..but still realize that it is my duty to work...its a christian thing you wouldn't understand.
Not all people on government assistence are lazy,if you can quote me saying that please do...there are plenty of people on government assistence who are lazy,promiscuous,drunks,drug addicts and criminals...but you prefer sin and lawlessness over rightousness courtesy of the tax payers so i understand.


The modern libearl Church and its pew warmers such as yourselfare as worthless to the concept of salvation and rightousness as the Devil himself,you aid and comfort people in their sins,encourage them to sin even more and want to force people to pay for it and as Jesus said make them twice the sons,and daughters of Hell that you are....i just looked at your profile...a Catholic...it all makes sense now.

 

[aspen]

I don't listen to Limbaugh,he is an entertainer and i don't require entertainment
I don't have medicare and social security will be bankrupt by the time i retire which i will never do because i can't afford to..but still realize that it is my duty to work...its a christian thing you wouldn't understand.
Not all people on government assistence are lazy,if you can quote me saying that please do...there are plenty of people on government assistence who are lazy,promiscuous,drunks,drug addicts and criminals...but you prefer sin and lawlessness over rightousness courtesy of the tax payers so i understand.


The modern libearl Church and its pew warmers such as yourselfare as worthless to the concept of salvation and rightousness as the Devil himself,you aid and comfort people in their sins,encourage them to sin even more and want to force people to pay for it and as Jesus said make them twice the sons,and daughters of Hell that you are....i just looked at your profile...a Catholic...it all makes sense now.

You are so busy trying to attack me, you cannot even follow your own line of reasoning - what does encouraging lazy people to work have to do with salvation? This is the first time you have bothered to suggest that there may others on government assistance who are not lazy. So do I have have your pledge that you will refuse the government hand out called social security if it is offered to you? You don't even know who I am and you have decided I am a pewsitter and as worthless to the concept (not sure what that means) of salvation as the Devil. Well, I guess you must have all the answers Mr. Strat - and know the Devil very well.

Carry on.

 

[Strat]

You are so busy trying to attack me, you cannot even follow your own line of reasoning - what does encouraging lazy people to work have to do with salvation? This is the first time you have bothered to suggest that there may others on government assistance who are not lazy. So do I have have your pledge that you will refuse the government hand out called social security if it is offered to you? You don't even know who I am and you have decided I am a pewsitter and as worthless to the concept (not sure what that means) of salvation as the Devil. Well, I guess you must have all the answers Mr. Strat - and know the Devil very well.

Carry on.

I have paid into social security so i should at least get back what i paid in with some interest,actually i paid for other people's benefits but when my time comes to get back what i have paid in and i get nothing because the country is bankrupt i guess in your twisted liberal mind that will be justice,i am forced to pay into social security....your ignorance of both the law and economics is impressive...you do not advocate rightousness or salvation...you advocate cheap grace that tells people they can live any way they please and still make heaven yet fail to provide scripture to support it...your way is wide and everyone's a winner,the bible says the way is narrow and few find it....carry on with that.

 

[brightmorningstar]

aspen2,

The pharisees would have said the same about Mathew 20:1-16

But what use is that statement? Jesus mostly corrected most of the Pharisees. I would take any notice of the Pharisees.

The problem is, the NT is about reconciling people to God which is done by renewing them through Christ. Otherwise its religion without the power.

By eating with sinners we are looking for Christ to work in their lives. We can only sow the seed and lead them, it is Christ that waters the seed. If they do come to Christ they will be as the NT says transformed by the renewing of their minds, then they wont want to sin because they will want to try and follow Christ.

This is the key problem with liberalism, it someone's mind is transformed then they wont react to challenges by objecting to being judged, they will be working through the challenge however painful it is; and they wont be defending and promoting sin. Liberalism all too often shows it is not a transformed and renewed mind.

 

[aspen]

I have paid into social security so i should at least get back what i paid in with some interest,actually i paid for other people's benefits but when my time comes to get back what i have paid in and i get nothing because the country is bankrupt i guess in your twisted liberal mind that will be justice,i am forced to pay into social security....your ignorance of both the law and economics is impressive...you do not advocate rightousness or salvation...you advocate cheap grace that tells people they can live any way they please and still make heaven yet fail to provide scripture to support it...your way is wide and everyone's a winner,the bible says the way is narrow and few find it....carry on with that.

Nah

I just learned that the world is not fair at a very young age and decided to be happy anyway. I have discovered as an adult that life is too short to keep score and hold grudges and shake my fist at the bad weather. I am an optimist, and if that means my heart bleeds like a liberal so be it.

aspen2,
But what use is that statement? Jesus mostly corrected most of the Pharisees. I would take any notice of the Pharisees.

The problem is, the NT is about reconciling people to God which is done by renewing them through Christ. Otherwise its religion without the power.

By eating with sinners we are looking for Christ to work in their lives. We can only sow the seed and lead them, it is Christ that waters the seed. If they do come to Christ they will be as the NT says transformed by the renewing of their minds, then they wont want to sin because they will want to try and follow Christ.

It reminds me of a key difference between two homeless shelters where I live. The Union Gospel Mission provides food and shelter and lots of great services including a car donation program, but the people they serve know that there is an agenda. And, if you are not willing to go along with the Christianity, you sleep outside.

The other shelter is called the House of Charity. It provides similar services and religious services are provided daily, but there are not requirements for the people it serves. I am sure you have guessed which one is Catholic.

Some may think that the House of Charity is just some liberal social service agency pretending to preach a lukewarm gospel. I believe the people who run the HOC know when to get out of the way of God and do a great job of showing up and allowing Him to use them without their own expectations.


This is the key problem with liberalism, it someone's mind is transformed then they wont react to challenges by objecting to being judged, they will be working through the challenge however painful it is; and they wont be defending and promoting sin. Liberalism all too often shows it is not a transformed and renewed mind.

I am not getting what you are saying and it sounds interesting - will you rephrase it?

 

[veteran]

The word 'liberal' has lost its original meaning and usage today. It's because of how Christ's enemies have slowly stained it to include ideas that allow the sinner to continue in sin and to hate the idea of a ruling class, and in general, the idea of 'authority'.

At one time it was a term associated with the ruling nobility who oversaw the health and care of their subjects living on the lands they were entrusted with by the royal monarch, while they recognized and subjected themselves to the divine authority of the ruling monarchy. (See Jane Eyre's Pride and Predjudice for an example of this, which is often protrayed negatively by liberals, especially in Hollywood. Whole volumes could be written of the positive associations the nobles and aristocracy had with the care and health of their subjects during those periods of western history, yet most of the history we are fed about that era leans towards the revolutionist's view).

With the French Revolution of the 1780's, which ended the reign of the French monarchy and noble ruling class, its changed meaning took off, with French Revolution phrases like 'Fraternity, Equality, Liberty, Brotherhood'. That's when ideas of revolution became strongly associated with ideas of Liberty and thus Liberalism.

Because of the French Revolution, some in England then coined the term 'conservative' to represent those who still supported the right of divine reign by the royal monarchy, along with its traditional institutions, which included The Church.

So the idea of a liberal used to mean one of noble character who dealt well with the care of those they were entrusted to rule over, but now has become a word associated with the negative thinking of overthrowing... rule and authority with the idea that we don't need any... ruling class over us. And the tenets of Communism adopted the French Revolution ideas of overthrow of divine monarchs, even with murdering the monarchs of Russia, the Czar Nicolas II and Alexandria in the October Revolutiion of 1917. The Marxist philosphy that produced Communism stated that eventually, Communist society would no longer have need of any... ruling class over the people.


When our Lord Jesus Christ returns, He's going to settle this matter, as He will be The Ruling Monarch KING over us ALL, and His princes will rule in judgment.

Isa 32:1-8
1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
(KJV)

 

[[email protected]]

Jesus was Jesus, Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ. I dont really see whether it matters that Jesus is seen as liberal or conservative, as long as it is Jesus according to His Biblical testimony.

Jesus came to preach the Kingdom of God. He did so in many ways including active demonstrations of its power.
In times since, there have always been usurpers who painted Christ onto their own special ideology to give it legitimacy.
Christ wasn't liberal or conservative, socialist, communist, capitalist, etc.

"Christ does not vindicate a race or a nation. It is the sovereignty of God which is vindicated."
- Reinhold Neibuhr

that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Every inch of America's road to ruin has been paved by those who always insisted along the way that America was the greatest country on earth no matter what...as if saying the words alone would make it so....they didn't....also there is the fact that every evil we now bear at one time existed only on the fringes of society...it brought shame and derision but little by little,office by office and election by election it was brought into the mainstream while the "good" people did nothing but build their castles and empires and gated communities that they thought would protect them,trusting in their riches instead of God and rightous living...now its all coming apart....yet we can still count on somebody to wave the flag and say the magic words.

I could not agree with you more. A more precise and telling post I have not read in many hours on line. Thank you very much for stating so plainly what so many do not know.

I fear the days of magic words are over. The worldly mind of many is now accepting our own propaganda as truth. Sadly the day will soon come when many wake up to reality and still feel the need to blame someone else for their calamity...still not understanding that even then they will be wrong about what they believe.


"If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it."
- Charles Finney

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[aspen]

The word 'liberal' has lost its original meaning and usage today. It's because of how Christ's enemies have slowly stained it to include ideas that allow the sinner to continue in sin and to hate the idea of a ruling class, and in general, the idea of 'authority'.

At one time it was a term associated with the ruling nobility who oversaw the health and care of their subjects living on the lands they were entrusted with by the royal monarch, while they recognized and subjected themselves to the divine authority of the ruling monarchy. (See Jane Eyre's Pride and Predjudice for an example of this, which is often protrayed negatively by liberals, especially in Hollywood. Whole volumes could be written of the positive associations the nobles and aristocracy had with the care and health of their subjects during those periods of western history, yet most of the history we are fed about that era leans towards the revolutionist's view).

With the French Revolution of the 1780's, which ended the reign of the French monarchy and noble ruling class, its changed meaning took off, with French Revolution phrases like 'Fraternity, Equality, Liberty, Brotherhood'. That's when ideas of revolution became strongly associated with ideas of Liberty and thus Liberalism.

Because of the French Revolution, some in England then coined the term 'conservative' to represent those who still supported the right of divine reign by the royal monarchy, along with its traditional institutions, which included The Church.

So the idea of a liberal used to mean one of noble character who dealt well with the care of those they were entrusted to rule over, but now has become a word associated with the negative thinking of overthrowing... rule and authority with the idea that we don't need any... ruling class over us. And the tenets of Communism adopted the French Revolution ideas of overthrow of divine monarchs, even with murdering the monarchs of Russia, the Czar Nicolas II and Alexandria in the October Revolutiion of 1917. The Marxist philosphy that produced Communism stated that eventually, Communist society would no longer have need of any... ruling class over the people.


When our Lord Jesus Christ returns, He's going to settle this matter, as He will be The Ruling Monarch KING over us ALL, and His princes will rule in judgment.

Isa 32:1-8
1 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment.
2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land.
3 And the eyes of them that see shall not be dim, and the ears of them that hear shall hearken.
4 The heart also of the rash shall understand knowledge, and the tongue of the stammerers shall be ready to speak plainly.
5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
6 For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.
7 The instruments also of the churl are evil: he deviseth wicked devices to destroy the poor with lying words, even when the needy speaketh right.
8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
(KJV)

Oh mercy! Oh the humanity! Oh the irony is KILLING ME!! I am getting a lesson on how to follow authority from a Protestant!! HA!

 

[Warrior]

Forget Politics, It is all money nonsense!!! Just focus on Jesus Christ. The world and the government will pass away

 

[[email protected]]

Forget Politics, It is all money nonsense!!! Just focus on Jesus Christ. The world and the government will pass away

Easier said that done and an attitude of 'sticking one's head in the sand' if ever I heard one.

The government will indeed pass away one day, but what mischief and misfortune and heartache will it cause while it lasts? If it is possible to prevent or reduce some of it, shouldn't that be the course for men of good conscience to seek?

The world will not pass away. To include such a thing in one's philosophical hope is nonsensical. It is easier to say that one day the sun will cease to shine in the sky. That day may come, but it won't do us any good here today. It certainly isn't a hope for the fears of those who suffer NOW.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[veteran]

This earth and the idea of government will NEVER pass away...


Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
(KJV)

2 Pet 2:9-16
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
(KJV)