Christian: Liberal or Conservative?

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It's about political definitions, most of which have been lost to us in the last three or four decades.

First, let's address real political definitions.
After that let's consider which side of the aisle a born again Christian ought to plant his flag.
Finally we can think about whether we should declare an allegiance to any flag at all.

It's an election year, boys and girls and American political insanity always seems to bubble to the surface of our society in this season. Electioneering is now the subject of late night comedians, more than usual I may add. It's the daily foot-in-mouth disease that plagues politicians who seek to continue their employment, who talk too much while being very carefully non-committal, and who are accustomed to sleeping and thinking too little. Meanwhile most Americans try without much success to ignore the hype that accompanies the over funded propaganda that passes itself off as truth. Nothing could be further from it.

What are liberals and conservatives anyway? I had the opportunity to talk to Daniel Ruth, liberal columnist for the St. Petersburg Times recently. His career has gone back as far as the days of King, Viet Nam and the Nixon scandal. Ruth said that the dividing line between Democratic liberalism and Republican conservatism has vanished. The old definitions, which we found so comfortable, are gone. Gone too, it seems, is anything resembling government regulation of big business, banks and the military. What then is your personal definition of liberalism and conservatism in the context of modern American politics?

What political agenda should a Christian adopt? If the liberal policies and directions of the Democratic party have disappeared is the new face of American Communism a good substitute? How about the Libertarian Party? More American than a red flag, Libertarianism supports legalized grass and a return to isolationism. Is this a real answer for America? If the Republican Party no longer supports government restraint, but supports the financial cartel instead is Dominionism a good substitute?

Ever pronounce the Pledge of Allegiance? Dumb question, right? Me too. We all grew up saying it over and over. Where I work some meetings begin with this form of political religious ceremony. Should a Christian pledge his or her allegiance to the flag of any republic, dictatorship, empire, etc.? Bear in mind that performing the act connotes political, moral and spiritual responsibilities despite the argument of some that 'God' should be removed from the vow.
Swearing allegiance to the flag of the republic is a vow to perform specific acts of cultural and moral responsibility. Some would not have it so. Some would bury their heads completely while others would support radical action. What does it mean if anything and should a Christian make such a promise in the first place if they don't mean to keep it?

Heavy questions. Serious subjects. Is a Christian political discussion an oxymoron? Did Jesus die for his country or for something more personal, something more anti-political? Will you vote this year or do you think the act, once a duty of every citizen, is now a pointless joke?

 

[veteran]

The United States of America is still... my country. And it's still... the land of the free and home of the brave! And our flag represents THAT, and not all the negative associations you try to attach to it like a liberal communist would. If you don't like the USA, maybe you should consider leaving it.

 

[prism]

I don't know about the Pledge but how about restorin' to our Schools, the Ten Commandments,Prayer, and a sound lickin' when showing disrespectin'?

 

[veteran]

I don't know about the Pledge but how about restorin' to our Schools, the Ten Commandments,Prayer, and a sound lickin' when showing disrespectin'?

All that and more is coming back. But it's going to be our Lord Jesus Who's gonna' do it though.

 

[Spiritforce]

What political agenda should a Christian adopt?

Not that Republicans don't have their warts, but liberalism is now so debased and antibiblical I can't believe a born-again Christian who is well versed on the Bible can even vote for an Obama liberal with a straight face. Obama will not support traditional marriage, he supports the infanticide of the innocent unborn, he engages in an unbiblical Redistribution of Wealth scheme, he's not a good steward of financial rescources, and he's the most biblically-hostile President we've every had. And that's just for starters.

 

[veteran]

What political agenda should a Christian adopt?

Not that Republicans don't have their warts, but liberalism is now so debased and antibiblical I can't believe a born-again Christian who is well versed on the Bible can even vote for an Obama liberal with a straight face. Obama will not support traditional marriage, he supports the infanticide of the innocent unborn, he engages in an unbiblical Redistribution of Wealth scheme, he's not a good steward of financial rescources, and he's the most biblically-hostile President we've every had. And that's just for starters.

Vote your conscience.

If we each do that, then we can go to sleep at night in peace with God knowing our intentions of choosing a righteous leader, regardless of whether that one we voted for turns out to be.

Because the majority do not know today what a righteous leader is, or can't find one, an election will be worthless without Christ's direction.

Better to prepare 'spiritually' with The LORD for what's coming according to His Word He gave us. It's all there for those who care to study It with His help.

 

[prism]

Vote your conscience and hopefully your conscience at least reflects biblical values.

 

[Comm.Arnold]

Thats a good little writeup rjp It's something I have had on the coffe table for years. It is getting to a boiling point of change in the political climate is it not ? I mean how many do you see on a daily basis engrained in the system ? How many of them are going to hell or leading a poor existence ? Probably a good majority at least it is in Canada anyways and the states sounds even worse not to be an America basher I love the freedom and having some pride in where you live and all that.

The Libertarianism in my opinion promotes people minding there own business while not infringing on the basic human rights of others. They do support some non christian ideas: abortion and gay marriage, conversely it should cause gay rights groups and abortion fanatics to respect religious freedoms. This mutual respect is something that is not happening almost anywhere in the world, partially because of the prosperity and education is a little easier to get to now a days and women want to enslave men and they are incapable of proper logical thinking. All these things lead to current problem I mean Obama is a Liberal he obviously isn't keeping big business in check Bush was a conservative who messed with the economy anytime he felt like it. Not to bash those people its got a tough job and I am sure they are trying their best.

 

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The United States of America is still... my country. And it's still... the land of the free and home of the brave! And our flag represents THAT, and not all the negative associations you try to attach to it like a liberal communist would. If you don't like the USA, maybe you should consider leaving it.

There is and of a right ought to be a standard higher than the flag. That's my initial point. The Federal government requires absolute allegiance as does Jesus Christ. That's the problem today, that's the central issue for Christians. The other problem, which commands attention from all of us is a muddling of words and meanings (conservative vs. liberal). The latter was addressed earlier.

As a Christian is the highest standard the socio-political system known as America, or is it Jesus Christ? Christ demands the ultimate allegiance; 100%.

If I read the American pledge of allegiance right, its an oath of loyalty to the Federal flag. 100% no less. Adopted in 1942, the original salute wasn't the hand over heart we use now, it was the straight arm salute reminiscent of NAZI Germany (look it up).

My country, my home, my career, my family and my religion are in America. Increasingly, however, we are NOT the land of the free and the home of the brave. That's a song with lyrics that are considerably obsolete - pretty much like 1950's rock music. The American citizen is no longer able to affect policy, it being decided by a congress under the influence of the military industrial complex and the financial cartel. The Pentagon decides foreign policy and the president is now able to lead us into war without so much as a memo to congress (Obama did it once in 2011 and twice in 2012). Federal courts reverse popular decisions by individual states and the Christian religion is gradually becoming illegal.

Land of the free? Not so much.

In years past, popular resentment to Federal law gave rise to demonstrations (some violent), church sermons, and labor strikes. IRS statute 501.c.3 has muzzled the pulpit, extreme restrictions on public demonstrations have made them ineffective and labor is so entangled with the poor economy and organizational nit picking that its impossible. Visit a large truck stop and talk to the drivers. Nobody in this country works as hard as truck drivers and no one has as many justified grievances as they do, yet they cannot strike. Ask them about it. Do it! The average man is so economically pinched and indebted that he cannot afford to stand up for his own rights. When was the last time you witnessed a non-military sacrifice for human rights, support for the aged and infirm or decent working conditions?

Land of the brave? Not any more.

You call yourself veteran, well so am I. I served a nation once where honor and justice were practiced, not just alluded to. I completed my duty with honor and returned home, to work in my country to raise a family in my country and to hope for a good future for my children in my country. You said I ought to emigrate if I didn't like it. Is that your answer, to run from difficult times like a coward?

This is my country as much as it is yours. My problem is that I see it as it has become, something less that I hoped for all those years ago when I took off my uniform. You have many good things to write here, sir, but I really wish you'd take off your rose colored glasses for a bit and have a long honest look at what's happening. None who really see.....like the look of what they watch. You will not be a traitor to a grand country if you identify its sins and acknowledge its wrongs. Some say such an attitude is unpopular patriotism.

It is still, at least in my mind, OUR country; even if I disagree with you, sir. There is a sense that its' been stolen from us. Some of us want it back. The flag is a symbol of the nation. If so, then that's been hijacked as well and I will not pledge my allegiance to it until we get that back too.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

[Strat]

Every inch of America's road to ruin has been paved by those who always insisted along the way that America was the greatest country on earth no matter what...as if saying the words alone would make it so....they didn't....also there is the fact that every evil we now bear at one time existed only on the fringes of society...it brought shame and derision but little by little,office by office and election by election it was brought into the mainstream while the "good" people did nothing but build their castles and empires and gated communities that they thought would protect them,trusting in their riches instead of God and rightous living...now its all coming apart....yet we can still count on somebody to wave the flag and say the magic words.

 

[veteran]

Every inch of America's road to ruin has been paved by those who always insisted along the way that America was the greatest country on earth no matter what...as if saying the words alone would make it so....they didn't....also there is the fact that every evil we now bear at one time existed only on the fringes of society...it brought shame and derision but little by little,office by office and election by election it was brought into the mainstream while the "good" people did nothing but build their castles and empires and gated communities that they thought would protect them,trusting in their riches instead of God and rightous living...now its all coming apart....yet we can still count on somebody to wave the flag and say the magic words.

God is Who planted our nation, along with all the historical Christian nations. The U.S. founders also thought so, and proclaimed it, even as the founders of the European Christian nations also did.

And that's why there still exists a remnant of God's people in those nations still... proclaiming that today. And we will continue... to proclaim that history until Christ's second coming to gather His people.

But the rest of people who would rather listen to the Communists and Socialists who hate such an idea, well, they have forfeited any right they might have had to that Christian heritage of the western nations.

And what's really funny is that many Christian Churches springing up today in the West are a whole lot bigger... than they used to be.

 

[Strat]

God is Who planted our nation, along with all the historical Christian nations. The U.S. founders also thought so, and proclaimed it, even as the founders of the European Christian nations also did.

And that's why there still exists a remnant of God's people in those nations still... proclaiming that today. And we will continue... to proclaim that history until Christ's second coming to gather His people.

But the rest of people who would rather listen to the Communists and Socialists who hate such an idea, well, they have forfeited any right they might have had to that Christian heritage of the western nations.

And what's really funny is that many Christian Churches springing up today in the West are a whole lot bigger... than they used to be.

My point was not to condemn the proclaiming,just pointing out that it has never changed anything and is not changing anything and things are getting steadily worse.....talk(proclaiming) is cheap when lifestyles do not reflect the proclamation.

 

[veteran]

My point was not to condemn the proclaiming,just pointing out that it has never changed anything and is not changing anything and things are getting steadily worse.....talk(proclaiming) is cheap when lifestyles do not reflect the proclamation.

I well understand how many of God's people are disgusted with how things are in the world today. That disgust is actually a good thing, because it means we don't belong to this world, but to God and His Son.

This present world is not our true 'home', but upon this earth with God here living with us is. And here, on earth, is where the world to come is going to be, as God promised; the meek shall inherit the earth.

Satan and his have been trying to shove us off this earth so they can try and claim it, but that's not going to be. This earth is our home and belongs to God, He established this earth forever (Ps.24; Ps.78:69).

God already foretold of us about these times today in His Word, what to expect, and how we are to think and act during these times. He didn't give us that information so we would be disgusted at what He ordained for this world, but at disgust against wickedness and the Wicked one. The time now is very short, Christ's coming is just around the corner now, and no doubt the OT prophets would have loved to have lived in our times to be able to see Christ's coming with glory in the clouds. Be strong; have Faith. The Saviour is coming.

 

[aspen]

Conservative - promoting the status quo or trying to reclaim the past.

Liberal - valuing personal freedom over the status quo, even at the expense of group identity and viewing the future as an improvement over the past or even the present.

I am sure conservatives think Jesus was a conservative because He was without sin and taught the true understanding of God's will for us. And liberals think of Jesus as liberal because He resisted the Pharisees and loved all people.

Seems to me Jesus taught His followers to take risks.

Be vulnerable in the face of Roman oppression.

Don't just bury your talents (conservative), trust God and put them to work (liberal).

Love all people - especially the poor and needy who were despised and rejected by the conservative establishment (Pharisees / Romans).

Risk breaking the rules - the rules were written for people, not to crush them.

IMO, Jesus methodically and fearlessly shook up the established rule of religion and government - nothing conservative about that kind of teaching.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Jesus was Jesus, Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ. I dont really see whether it matters that Jesus is seen as liberal or conservative, as long as it is Jesus according to His Biblical testimony.

 

[aspen]

Jesus was Jesus, Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ. I dont really see whether it matters that Jesus is seen as liberal or conservative, as long as it is Jesus according to His Biblical testimony.

No requirement. Just an interesting discussion.

 

[Strat]

Conservative - promoting the status quo or trying to reclaim the past.

Liberal - valuing personal freedom over the status quo, even at the expense of group identity and viewing the future as an improvement over the past or even the present.

I am sure conservatives think Jesus was a conservative because He was without sin and taught the true understanding of God's will for us. And liberals think of Jesus as liberal because He resisted the Pharisees and loved all people.

Seems to me Jesus taught His followers to take risks.

Be vulnerable in the face of Roman oppression.

Don't just bury your talents (conservative), trust God and put them to work (liberal).

Love all people - especially the poor and needy who were despised and rejected by the conservative establishment (Pharisees / Romans).

Risk breaking the rules - the rules were written for people, not to crush them.

IMO, Jesus methodically and fearlessly shook up the established rule of religion and government - nothing conservative about that kind of teaching.

So Jesus would have paid people not to work(liberal)
rewarded out of wedlock births with a bigger check(liberal)
would have given clean needles to drug addicts(liberal)
would have promoted homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle(liberal)
In general Jesus according to you was anti work and anti responsability and what the Bible realy meant to say was for whatever a man sows that shall his neighbor also reap.I have heard this Jesus was a liberal nonsense before,it is based on the free love free lunch hippy Jesus made popular in the 70's...Jesus Christ Superstar and the like

The Jesus of the bible was no such thing,he was about rightousness and responsability,the "poor" he described were those too old,young or sick to work...not some idiot homie hanging out on the street corners shacking up with his girlfriend and making babies or those who think they are simply too good to work and be productive members of society....the only "poor" that are despised are the loafers and freeloaders who the Bible says should not eat if they will not work.

Liberals want nothing to do with the rightousness and responsable living that Jesus spoke of,they just want hand outs and free stuff that they think they and their ilk are entitled to from the hippy,radical dude Jesus of their own foolish imagination.....there is absolutely no Biblical support for it.

 

[aspen]

So Jesus would have paid people not to work(liberal)

The pharisees would have said the same about Mathew 20:1-16

rewarded out of wedlock births with a bigger check(liberal)

John 4:1-26. Jesus revealed himself to the women at the well

would have given clean needles to drug addicts(liberal)

There are so many examples of Jesus healing the sick who were considered sinners and outcasts by the popular culture that I could cite all 4 gospels.

would have promoted homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle(liberal)

The same charge the Pharisees used against Jesus for eating with sinners

In general Jesus according to you was anti work and anti responsability and what the Bible realy meant to say was for whatever a man sows that shall his neighbor also reap.I have heard this Jesus was a liberal nonsense before,it is based on the free love free lunch hippy Jesus made popular in the 70's...Jesus Christ Superstar and the like

Nice spin. Too bad the Pharisee didn't have FOX News to spin their stories about Jesus.

The Jesus of the bible was no such thing,he was about rightousness and responsability,the "poor" he described were those too old,young or sick to work...not some idiot homie hanging out on the street corners shacking up with his girlfriend and making babies or those who think they are simply too good to work and be productive members of society....the only "poor" that are despised are the loafers and freeloaders who the Bible says should not eat if they will not work.

WOW. Have you read the Bible? Because if you claim to have read it, I think you might benefit from replacing the tax collectors and the sick and poor who were refused from the Temple, with the guy shacking up with his girlfriend and those you think are too smuggle to work, rather than simply unemployed in the worst economy since the Great Depression. You have the empathy of a baseball bat.

Liberals want nothing to do with the rightousness and responsable living that Jesus spoke of,they just want hand outs and free stuff that they think they and their ilk are entitled to from the hippy,radical dude Jesus of their own foolish imagination.....there is absolutely no Biblical support for it.

When does Jesus call us to be concerned with Justice? On the contrary, he condemns man's Justice. Instead, we are called to love one another and be merciful. Justice is reserved for God.

 

[Strat]

Complete nonsense,how many performances of Jesus Christ Superstar have you attended...or perhaps the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Jesus healed sin,he did not enable it or is "go and sin no more" too complicated for you....is the word repentence is above your pay grade.

The Bible condemns laziness in all its forms.

Homosexuality is a sin and is condemned by the Bible..your comparison is idiotic.

No spin involved liberal,you and your kinds plan for society is a free lunch utopia where work and responsability are an option instead of a duty and morality,decency and rightousness are whatever you want them to be and feel good about.

Yes liberal i have read the Bible...not just the warm fuzzly lovey,touchey feelly goody parts that liberals only read.

Please spare me the worn out" worst economy since the great depression,its all Bush's fault" routine,its getting old,yes there are unemployed people....there are also people who have never been employed and thanks to your kind will never have to worry about being employed,and long after those who are temporarily unemployed have gone back to work they will still pay taxes so bums don't have to work...what specific Bible verse supports that ?

I suspect you are one of those types who beleive that Jesus came to make null and void the law and justice of God...he said he came not to abolish the law but to fullfill it and to say Jesus had nothing to say about justice is just plain stupid...some synonyms for justice are equity,right,fairness,impartiality,goodness,virtue....some antonyms are inequity,injustice,prejudice,corruptionm,foul play and crime....no Jesus never had anything to say about justice did he.

 

[aspen]

Complete nonsense,how many performances of Jesus Christ Superstar have you attended...or perhaps the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

Yep...typical dittohead response. How predictable.

Jesus healed sin,he did not enable it or is "go and sin no more" too complicated for you....is the word repentence is above your pay grade.

How ugly. You are like a train wreck....I ashamed to read on, but I cannot stop.....

The Bible condemns laziness in all its forms.

I guess you do know what a strawman - label all people requiring government assistance as lazy and then knock it down with scripture....just don't touch your medicare right!

Homosexuality is a sin and is condemned by the Bible..your comparison is idiotic.

Meaningless statement - love that ad homenim!

No spin involved liberal,you and your kinds plan for society is a free lunch utopia where work and responsability are an option instead of a duty and morality,decency and rightousness are whatever you want them to be and feel good about.

Did you learn that on FOX? You're right Pharisee, I value mercy over judgment

Yes liberal i have read the Bible...not just the warm fuzzly lovey,touchey feelly goody parts that liberals only read.

I thought Catholics were the only ones with extra books?!

Please spare me the worn out" worst economy since the great depression,its all Bush's fault" routine,its getting old,yes there are unemployed people....there are also people who have never been employed and thanks to your kind will never have to worry about being employed,and long after those who are temporarily unemployed have gone back to work they will still pay taxes so bums don't have to work...what specific Bible verse supports that ?

Naw, 8 years of living it during the dark years of the Bush era is enough to wear all of us out. Thank God we can look forward to another four years of a real President rather than a an incompetent menace like Cheney

I see you are still setting up those strawmen like an Olympic Athlete - GO STRATS

I suspect you are one of those types who beleive that Jesus came to make null and void the law and justice of God...he said he came not to abolish the law but to fullfill it and to say Jesus had nothing to say about justice is just plain stupid...some synonyms for justice are equity,right,fairness,impartiality,goodness,virtue....some antonyms are inequity,injustice,prejudice,corruptionm,foul play and crime....no Jesus never had anything to say about justice did he.

Did I say that? Of course not, but who cares, right? I said that God is in charge of Justice - we are not. Remember, Hater, if you are loving perfectly, you are not sinning! So keep swinging that hammer of righteousness and whipping those lazy liberal into shape for Jesus....LOLOLOL