Christianity is essentially admitting you are God without admitting you are God

[Romanov2488]

Fundamentalists could be wrong in taking the Bible too literally.
Could be. Yes. That is true of all literature and not unique to the Bible.

BTW, I'm guessing you must be thinking of events such as Noah's flood and the creation account among other things. Fundamentalists believe these events actually took place. So do I.

Perhaps the Bible is not meant to be taken literally.
Whether the topic is the Bible or another book, the correct interpretation of any work is the one that the author meant. If the author intended to speak literally, we take him or her literally. If the author intends to speak figuratively, then we understand the text to be figurative language. And it isn't that hard to tell.

I am guessing you are reacting to Biblical claims concerning Noah's flood, Jonah and the Whale, Balaam's donkey, and the Resurrection of Jesus among other disputed accounts. Is your concern that we take such accounts as literal? Well, such accounts were always taken literally until about the middle of the 19th century when empiricism came into vogue. Have you examined the validity of empiricism?

If I spoke in parables, why would you ever take what I say literally?
It does not follow that since Jesus occasionally spoke in parables he always spoke in parables. Jesus' parables follow a distinctive pattern and mode of expression. His parables are typically stories with an agricultural theme or an activity from everyday life. But contrary to popular belief, the purpose of the parables was NOT to teach wisdom or ethics. The purpose of the parables was to describe the kingdom of God.

They are not the ones who hold the ultimate authority in decided what the Bible means and doesn’t.
No one holds authority over what a Bible passage means. The Catholics believe they do, but that isn't true. Fortunately, the Bible has been translated into the common tongue so that anyone who wishes can read it for themselves. And it really isn't that hard to understand.

Don’t you think a fundamentalist is also born in sin and has biases? Who do fundamentalists think they are?
I agree that fundamentalists, like everyone else are born in sin and have biases. It doesn't follow, however, that intellectual ineptitude is necessarily a characteristic of being a sinner.

Fundamentalists are reacting to the intelligentsia who proposed that the miraculous events recorded in the Bible are mythical, legendary, allegorical stories intended to convey a moral lesson. Why? Because such events don't usually happen and can't be proven "scientifically." Fundamentalists don't agree that all truths are products of the scientific method. Human beings apprehend knowledge by other means.

Not just Noah’s flood, but also verses that are used to counter LGBT or verses denoting that government is an institution of God (Romans 13:1). Slaveholders (who took many verses literally) used it to justify slavery.

We don’t know with absolute certainty what the author meant. Anything the ‘author meant’ is yet again, another interpretation or assumption. Like religions claiming exclusivity, there’s hundreds of Christian denominations claiming to ‘have it down’. Whose right? The Catholics? The Mormons? The LGBT pastors? They’ve all read the same Bible. How do we know who's twisting Scripture and who isn’t? What if everyone is twisting the Bible to some extent? Isn’t all of that up to God to decide in the end? That’s what I mean by Christians admitting they are God without admitting it.

It gets even more confusing when you bring God’s nature into question. Something that exists outside of space and time is the equivalent as something that doesn’t exist. To say that something exists outside of space and time is self-refuting. Space and time is where we observe, it is where we can make measurements.

Science has produced much more tangible results than religion ever has. Prayer is inconsistent..sometimes it ‘works’ and other times it doesn’t. Science relies upon repeatability and verifiability. I can’t think of any other reason to believe in God other than to cope with the fear of death.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not just Noah’s flood, but also verses that are used to counter LGBT or verses denoting that government is an institution of God (Romans 13:1). Slaveholders (who took many verses literally) used it to justify slavery.

We don’t know with absolute certainty what the author meant. Anything the ‘author meant’ is yet again, another interpretation or assumption. Like religions claiming exclusivity, there’s hundreds of Christian denominations claiming to ‘have it down’. Whose right? The Catholics? The Mormons? The LGBT pastors? They’ve all read the same Bible. How do we know who's twisting Scripture and who isn’t? What if everyone is twisting the Bible to some extent? Isn’t all of that up to God to decide in the end? That’s what I mean by Christians admitting they are God without admitting it.

It gets even more confusing when you bring God’s nature into question. Something that exists outside of space and time is the equivalent as something that doesn’t exist. To say that something exists outside of space and time is self-refuting. Space and time is where we observe, it is where we can make measurements.

Science has produced much more tangible results than religion ever has. Prayer is inconsistent..sometimes it ‘works’ and other times it doesn’t. Science relies upon repeatability and verifiability. I can’t think of any other reason to believe in God other than to cope with the fear of death.

used it to justify slavery.
Not all arguments are sound arguments. Using the Bible to justify slavery is not a sound argument.

We don’t know with absolute certainty what the author meant.
Sure we do. It's not hard to understand.

Anything the ‘author meant’ is yet again, another interpretation or assumption.
Reading is always an interpretation. Right now, I am interpreting your words, and I am not having trouble knowing what you, the author, intends to say. Why would you think the Bible is any different?

Whose right?
I am, but what did you expect me to say? Did you expect me to say I hold beliefs I don't think are true? The safest course is independent Bible study and independent thought.

They’ve all read the same Bible. How do we know who's twisting Scripture and who isn’t?
Read it for yourself and find out. Among Protestants, the only authorized teaching comes from the Bible. This is known as sola-scriptura - Bible alone. God holds each individual responsible for what is believed and practiced. Neither the church nor a pastor can stand with me at the judgment seat. Therefore, it behooves me to learn, study, and draw my own conclusions. If I get it wrong, that's on me.

Something that exists outside of space and time is the equivalent as something that doesn’t exist.
On the contrary, the very definition of "God" presupposes a creator of all that exists, who must transcend his creation, just as all creators transcend their creations. A rational creation presupposes a rational mind.

Science has produced much more tangible results than religion ever has.
But how many of those "results" are valuable? The most valuable things in this world are intangible: Love, peace, justice, truth, faith, freedom, and liberty, to name a few.

I can’t think of any other reason to believe in God other than to cope with the fear of death.
Now we are getting somewhere. The Christian hope is the expectation of "aionic life", which mankind has sought from the beginning. This life promises so much but delivers so little. This life is filled with frustrations, limitations, disappointments, and futilities. As Saint Bobby said, "Everything is broken." Solomon said that all is futile and that death robs life of meaning.

Christian hope is not the fear of death; it is the anticipation of Life with a capital 'L'—abundant, happy, fulfilling, rewarding life. Instead of relationships breaking down, relationships grow closer and more profound. Instead of the death of children robbing parents of Joy, there will be no death. Instead of decay, rot, and moth destroying hard work and accomplishment, there will be no more decay, rot, and moth. No longer will a man die, only to have his son squander his inheritance on booze and dissipation. No longer will a man build a fine house only to have wind, waves, and earthquakes destroy it.

God is the source of aionic Life and those who want it seek it from him.

 

[Romanov2488]

used it to justify slavery.
Not all arguments are sound arguments. Using the Bible to justify slavery is not a sound argument.

We don’t know with absolute certainty what the author meant.
Sure we do. It's not hard to understand.

Anything the ‘author meant’ is yet again, another interpretation or assumption.
Reading is always an interpretation. Right now, I am interpreting your words, and I am not having trouble knowing what you, the author, intends to say. Why would you think the Bible is any different?

Whose right?
I am, but what did you expect me to say? Did you expect me to say I hold beliefs I don't think are true? The safest course is independent Bible study and independent thought.

They’ve all read the same Bible. How do we know who's twisting Scripture and who isn’t?
Read it for yourself and find out. Among Protestants, the only authorized teaching comes from the Bible. This is known as sola-scriptura - Bible alone. God holds each individual responsible for what is believed and practiced. Neither the church nor a pastor can stand with me at the judgment seat. Therefore, it behooves me to learn, study, and draw my own conclusions. If I get it wrong, that's on me.

Something that exists outside of space and time is the equivalent as something that doesn’t exist.
On the contrary, the very definition of "God" presupposes a creator of all that exists, who must transcend his creation, just as all creators transcend their creations. A rational creation presupposes a rational mind.

Science has produced much more tangible results than religion ever has.
But how many of those "results" are valuable? The most valuable things in this world are intangible: Love, peace, justice, truth, faith, freedom, and liberty, to name a few.

I can’t think of any other reason to believe in God other than to cope with the fear of death.
Now we are getting somewhere. The Christian hope is the expectation of "aionic life", which mankind has sought from the beginning. This life promises so much but delivers so little. This life is filled with frustrations, limitations, disappointments, and futilities. As Saint Bobby said, "Everything is broken." Solomon said that all is futile and that death robs life of meaning.

Christian hope is not the fear of death; it is the anticipation of Life with a capital 'L'—abundant, happy, fulfilling, rewarding life. Instead of relationships breaking down, relationships grow closer and more profound. Instead of the death of children robbing parents of Joy, there will be no death. Instead of decay, rot, and moth destroying hard work and accomplishment, there will be no more decay, rot, and moth. No longer will a man die, only to have his son squander his inheritance on booze and dissipation. No longer will a man build a fine house only to have wind, waves, and earthquakes destroy it.

God is the source of aionic Life and those who want it seek it from him.

What the author of any book means is highly subjective. If Christians agreed on what the author of the Bible means, there wouldn’t be hundreds of denominations.

Belief in God lacks evidence though, it’s a coping mechanism for not knowing. There’s a reason why less scientists on average, believe in God compared to the general population. There’s a reason why education and critical thinking is associated with loss of faith. There’s a reason why religious belief is most popular in the poorest countries.

“On the contrary, the very definition of "God" presupposes a creator of all that exists, who must transcend his creation, just as all creators transcend their creations. A rational creation presupposes a rational mind.” Fallacy of special pleading. If God created everything but nothing created god, you are using a special pleading fallacy.

The challenges and imperfections that exist in this life helps us grow. A place such as heaven where there is no suffering, no striving, no challenges, is a boring place. Heaven, would literally be hell. No one knows what comes after death, and no one knows who's right about what comes after death either. All religions claim to have the answer, all religions claim their god is the best god.

 

[Gottservant]

The absolute certainty of Christians that God exists…seems like something only God himself would know because “Only God knows”. If only God is absolute, then only God can make an absolute statement. For a group of people that talks so much about being limited, and fallible, they sure are perfect in their belief that God exists…otherwise they would be agnostics and unbelievers. They know more about God than God knows about himself. However, Christians will claim that is absurd because “God works in mysterious ways” or “is beyond all understanding”. Wow, they sure have encapsulated an infinite being with that one. But wait! What if they say God is NOT beyond all understanding? Are they now suggesting God is just as relatable as your Joe Shmoe from across the street? They should just admit they are God at this point. But why won’t they? Well, because only God is perfect, and they aren’t. The Bible even SAYS IT.

….But they are the ones reading the Bible. The Bible isn’t reading itself. They are the ones saying that the Bible says it. That is their interpretation of the Bible and their interpretation is absolute…just like God.

Only God can judge….God is also all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving. He says it himself and I’m the one telling you that he says it.

He must be up to something, this "God"? How could I question it, if He wasn't?

 

[CadyandZoe]

What the author of any book means is highly subjective. If Christians agreed on what the author of the Bible means, there wouldn’t be hundreds of denominations.

Belief in God lacks evidence though, it’s a coping mechanism for not knowing. There’s a reason why less scientists on average, believe in God compared to the general population. There’s a reason why education and critical thinking is associated with loss of faith. There’s a reason why religious belief is most popular in the poorest countries.

“On the contrary, the very definition of "God" presupposes a creator of all that exists, who must transcend his creation, just as all creators transcend their creations. A rational creation presupposes a rational mind.” Fallacy of special pleading. If God created everything but nothing created god, you are using a special pleading fallacy.

The challenges and imperfections that exist in this life helps us grow. A place such as heaven where there is no suffering, no striving, no challenges, is a boring place. Heaven, would literally be hell. No one knows what comes after death, and no one knows who's right about what comes after death either. All religions claim to have the answer, all religions claim their god is the best god.

What the author of any book means is highly subjective.
The intent of the author is not subjective. Granted, poets and songwriters produce works of art that some people take on a surface level, while others look for hidden meanings. And so, with regard to art, it can be tricky to discover the author's intent, and discussions about song meanings can be highly speculative.

But the Bible speaks clearly about the condition of man and God's will for mankind.

If Christians agreed on what the author of the Bible means, there wouldn’t be hundreds of denominations.
You assume that Christians don't divide on other grounds. But I think your argument is against the inerrancy and reliability of the Bible. Does it follow that multiple interpretations of a work indicate that the work is unclear? Sometimes it does. But multiple interpretations aren't necessarily due to a lack of clarity. Bear in mind that the greatest source of misinterpretation in my experience are presuppositions and biases that the reader brings to the text. This is not the fault of the author; this is the fault of the reader.

Another impediment to the correct understanding of a passage is the standpoint of the reader. The question is, "What do I want from the author"? Am I willing to read the passage sympathetically? What is sympathetic reading?

If God created everything but nothing created god, you are using a special pleading fallacy.
Special pleading fallacy involves an argument that makes an exception to a general rule. I don't maintain that God is among all things created but without a creator. I maintain that God transcends his creation.

Heaven, would literally be hell.
I didn't mention heaven did I? I don't think I did. Am I to understand that the "good" life is a lack of boredom? Really? Perhaps I didn't communicate well.

In short, I was talking about "human flourishing, well-being, and happiness." The ultimate goal of the human being is to discover and practice human virtue and wisdom in order to find and maintain what the Greeks called, "eudaimonia." According to the Bible, eudaimonia is out of reach for human beings because of sin. Even so, God promises to solve that problem for those who trust him. Not only does he forgive sin, but he will also remove the inevitability of sin. A world without war, hunger, and sorrow, is boring?

All religions claim to have the answer, all religions claim their god is the best god.
In my view, a "religion" is technically not a theological system. "Religion" is what we do in order to induce God to help us and give us stuff. Among Christians, as you say, there are many denominations, some would call them religions.

Nonetheless, according to the New Testament scriptures, there is only one "faith". That is, the New Testament speaks with one voice, teaching a unified message. I recommend that each one of us spend time hearing and understanding that message.

 

[Matthias]

You know about Jesus but don’t self-identify as one of his followers. What is keeping you from being a follower of the Messiah?

Unbelief.

 

[Gottservant]

Well quite frankly I would say that there’s people who are followers of Jesus without knowing about Jesus. People that live a Christian life without identifying as one. Now I know fundamentalists love cherry picking Bible verses to say differently such as “I am the way and truth and the life”, but they could be misusing the Bible as well.

Yes,I agree: there are many that do the will of God, without realising it.

Helping the old lady cross the road? God's will! Donating to charity? God's will!

Praying there is a God who hears? God's will.

 

[M3n0r4h]

The absolute certainty of Christians that God exists…seems like something only God himself would know because “Only God knows”. If only God is absolute, then only God can make an absolute statement. For a group of people that talks so much about being limited, and fallible, they sure are perfect in their belief that God exists…otherwise they would be agnostics and unbelievers. They know more about God than God knows about himself. However, Christians will claim that is absurd because “God works in mysterious ways” or “is beyond all understanding”. Wow, they sure have encapsulated an infinite being with that one. But wait! What if they say God is NOT beyond all understanding? Are they now suggesting God is just as relatable as your Joe Shmoe from across the street? They should just admit they are God at this point. But why won’t they? Well, because only God is perfect, and they aren’t. The Bible even SAYS IT.

….But they are the ones reading the Bible. The Bible isn’t reading itself. They are the ones saying that the Bible says it. That is their interpretation of the Bible and their interpretation is absolute…just like God.

Only God can judge….God is also all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving. He says it himself and I’m the one telling you that he says it.

what your title describes is actually almost identical to New Age teachings.

and yes, modern mainstream Christianity is very New Age.

you're wrong about Christians reading the Bible though.

the vast majority never even open it.

 

[XFire]

I’m an Ante-Nicene Christian. I’m not God. I have a God.

My God is Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

I too am an anti nicene Christian. But I do believe in the divinity of man. I will open a new thread in a Christian forum

 

[MatthewG]

Sometimes, it’s a wonder if God is able to keep himself from knowing all the time by waiting patiently and allow an outcome to happen in which he responds and acts accordingly. He probably considered all the possibilities in which way allowed for him not to be surprised.

 

[XFire]

Sometimes, it’s a wonder if God is able to keep himself from knowing all the time by waiting patiently and allow an outcome to happen in which he responds and acts accordingly. He probably considered all the possibilities in which way allowed for him not to be surprised.

I believe that in general God doesn't know exact ends; but does know generally as in He knows we will sin. I lean on this verse for what I mean
KJV .jere 7.31, jere 32.35

I think since God is good He doesn't want to even think of how bad his children can get. His hope is for us to choose righteousness over sin

 

[MatthewG]

Ok, xf

 

[lforrest]

We know what we have been told by God. It is God who reached out to us. We have received his message and believe his words. In man's fallen state God did not abandon us. He has sent his Spirit into the world and given prophets words to speak. This was even before he sent his Son.

But carnal man is as a beast and does not understand the ways of God. Should we continue to think as beasts, because that is our fallen nature? No, while we lack his nature we can know him because he has chosen us to be sons and daughters, and to serve the first born Jesus. While we are changed and changing it isn't to equality with God. But to be one with him in mind and spirit. That we may do God's will and live with him for eternity after this world passes away.

 

[BeyondET]

How do we know you’re not misusing the Bible?

Are you telling me that -your- interpretation of the Bible is the one and correct one?

Ok you’re a human person. How can a little, insignificant human confined to time and space have any clue about an infinite being that’s completely outside of it?

How many are with you that wants to know?

It's apparent you believe an infinite being would be confined to the outside of space and time.