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Buzzfruit

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Hello Angelina,

Jesus did not have any biological brothers. None of the James mentioned in the Bible were Jesus' biological brother. The problem with the Hebrew and Aramaic language is that they don't have a word for "cousin." So, the word "brother' was also used for cousin. The writers of the New Testament were brought up using the Aramaic equivalent of "brothers" to mean both cousins and sons of the same father—plus other relatives and even non-relatives. When they wrote in Greek, they did the same thing the translators of the Septuagint did.

Let's look closely at James, whom some say is Jesus' brother. We know that James the younger’s mother was named Mary. Look at the descriptions of the women standing beneath the cross: "among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee" (Matt. 27:56); "There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome" (Mark 15:40).

Then look at what John says: "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene" (John 19:25). If we compare these parallel accounts of the scene of the crucifixion, we see that the mother of James and Joseph must be the wife of Clopas. So far, so good.

An argument against this, though, is that James is elsewhere (Matt. 10:3) described as the son of Alphaeus, which would mean this Mary, whoever she was, was the wife of both Clopas and Alphaeus. But Alphaeus and Clopas are the same person, since the Aramaic name for Alphaeus could be rendered in Greek either as Alphaeus or as Clopas. Another possibility is that Alphaeus took a Greek name similar to his Jewish name, the way that Saul took the name Paul.

So it’s probable that James the younger is the son of Mary and Clopas. The second-century historian Hegesippus explains that Clopas was the brother of Joseph, the foster-father of Jesus. James would thus be Joseph’s nephew and a cousin of Jesus, who was Joseph’s putative son.



Nothing, it was Buzz who changed the subject when I stated that when one should allow the non-Christian member in the family first to know God and be sanctified by Him before one goes outside the family. After all, Jesus went to the House of Israel first and then sent His Apostles into the world of the Gentiles.

Jesus said He was sent to the lost House of Israel.....that's why He never preached much if any to the gentile. But He told the Jews that the kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to another. He also said that people from around the world would come and sit down in the kingdom with Abraham but they would be outside.
 

Selene

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Jesus said He was sent to the lost House of Israel.....that's why He never preached much if any to the gentile. But He told the Jews that the kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to another. He also said that people from around the world would come and sit down in the kingdom with Abraham but they would be outside.

What has this have to do with what I just said?
 

biggandyy

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Oct 11, 2011
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lawrance

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I was only explaining why Jesus preached to the Jews and not to Gentiles.
Jesus was looking for those of Israel not some foolish Jew or some idiot gentile as they would not know what he was on about now would they at that time. because they were not a people of God. and he knew it did he not.
 

Buzzfruit

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Jesus was looking for those of Israel not some foolish Jew or some idiot gentile as they would not know what he was on about now would they at that time. because they were not a people of God. and he knew it did he not.

Jesus had already knew those who would believe Him. But it does not mean that Gentiles were God's back-up plan in case the Jews did not believe. All who are called were predestined to be called from the foundation of the Earth.
 

us2are1

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Sep 14, 2011
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35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

Matthew 19
10 His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."
11 But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given:
12 For there are eunuchs who were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who is able to accept it, let him accept it."

It is for those who would be saved no matter what the cost.

1 Corinthians 7
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them if they remain even as I am;
 

Cresco

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Nov 21, 2011
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1. He was attracted to her, physically.
2. He didn't meet anyone else who was a Christian who was like her.
3. They got along well, discussed faith issues, and decided that it wouldn't be a big problem.
4. He wanted a woman who would defer to his leadership, and she had that trait.
5. He believed that he could teach her about the faith and she would convert anyway.

.....but many men out there are convinced that if they found the right woman, it wouldn't matter if she wasn't a Christian.

I'm late to the party, but I have some very practical advice for these Men.

First, [bible='2 Corinthians 6:14']Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?[/bible] wholly applies in this case. I understand that marriage was not the issue at hand for this passage but that does not make it any less poignant or relevant to this topic.

These guys (or ladies) are intentionally nailing a cross to themselves. I AM married to an unbeliever and I would ask you to SERIOUSLY CONSIDER "What fellowship" I have with my wife. I love her, and she loves me. However, our union is severely stunted and lacks the spiritual intimacy that believing spouses share. So I ask again, what fellowship do I share with her? In answer, it is one that is wholly worldly. And that is not where Christ would have us focus our energies.

Pure foolishness I say....
 

Buzzfruit

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Cresco >>> I'm late to the party, but I have some very practical advice for these Men.

First, [bible='2 Corinthians 6:14']Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?[/bible] wholly applies in this case. I understand that marriage was not the issue at hand for this passage but that does not make it any less poignant or relevant to this topic.

These guys (or ladies) are intentionally nailing a cross to themselves. I AM married to an unbeliever and I would ask you to SERIOUSLY CONSIDER "What fellowship" I have with my wife. I love her, and she loves me. However, our union is severely stunted and lacks the spiritual intimacy that believing spouses share. So I ask again, what fellowship do I share with her? In answer, it is one that is wholly worldly. And that is not where Christ would have us focus our energies.

Pure foolishness I say....<<<<









Buzzfruit >>>Some among us like to fool themselves to believe that one can have the same kind of Christian relationship with an unbeliever the same way one would have if both husband and wife were converted. And it seems as if they have been sedued by some of the things in the world.<<<<


 

lawrance

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Jesus had already knew those who would believe Him. But it does not mean that Gentiles were God's back-up plan in case the Jews did not believe. All who are called were predestined to be called from the foundation of the Earth.
Remember Jesus said to his disciples to go out to a people but if these people did not embrace them to get rid of even the dust off there sandals etc and go from them.
There was no back up plan. and in case the jews did not believe ? come on now.
Some people are not destined and some are ? come on. one could say the jew was predestined but were they now ?
You know that Jews came into Christ as well, not only goy. there is nether jew or greek in Christ so all that race stuff is just rubbish now. give it a way it's nonsense. the OT is just a blueprint. and that time is gone.
 

us2are1

Son Of Man
Sep 14, 2011
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I'm late to the party, but I have some very practical advice for these Men.

First, [bible='2 Corinthians 6:14']Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?[/bible] wholly applies in this case. I understand that marriage was not the issue at hand for this passage but that does not make it any less poignant or relevant to this topic.

These guys (or ladies) are intentionally nailing a cross to themselves. I AM married to an unbeliever and I would ask you to SERIOUSLY CONSIDER "What fellowship" I have with my wife. I love her, and she loves me. However, our union is severely stunted and lacks the spiritual intimacy that believing spouses share. So I ask again, what fellowship do I share with her? In answer, it is one that is wholly worldly. And that is not where Christ would have us focus our energies.

Pure foolishness I say....
 

Buzzfruit

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Remember Jesus said to his disciples to go out to a people but if these people did not embrace them to get rid of even the dust off there sandals etc and go from them.
There was no back up plan. and in case the jews did not believe ? come on now.
Some people are not destined and some are ? come on. one could say the jew was predestined but were they now ?
You know that Jews came into Christ as well, not only goy. there is nether jew or greek in Christ so all that race stuff is just rubbish now. give it a way it's nonsense. the OT is just a blueprint. and that time is gone.

A carful study of the scriptures will show that it is God that calls each and every individual that repents. If He does not call the individual they will not. Scripture also tells us that God will resurrect the unrepentant dead. Jesus mentioned it to the Pharisees and it is mentioned in other parts of the Bible. There are hard questions that many Christians either refuse to answer (this I find to be dishonest) or is unable to. Such as, what happens to a baby that dies or people that lived and never knew about the true God and so on? There is no other name except Jesus’ name where we can be saved. So how one would square that with the reality of life (people have born, lived and died and were completely ignorant of Jesus)? The answer is in the Bible but the vast majority of Christians don’t want to accept it, because it does not fit into what they were taught…..church teachings is more important to them than what the Bible tell us.
 

treeberry

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Nov 5, 2011
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Phew! Now that the firestorm has dampened I can carefully peek in without getting my hair singed...

Cresco, I agree with what you had said so do not take my response as argumentative. I am simply analyzing this from a logical debate view.

Many of these men are insistent that they can lead the right woman to Christ. I do have to give them some credit because is it not true that we are able to lead people to Christ? Isn't that what sharing the gospel is about?

Based on this argument, what can you tell a man who truly believes he can lead the right woman to Christ even if she is an atheist, agnostic, isn't religious (but believes in God), or follows a non-Christian faith?

I once mentioned that we are not to be unequally yoked in faith and a couple of these men told me that a woman should have the qualities to be a submissive wife and that counts more than her faith.
 

Cresco

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Nov 21, 2011
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Based on this argument, what can you tell a man who truly believes he can lead the right woman to Christ even if she is an atheist, agnostic, isn't religious (but believes in God), or follows a non-Christian faith?

I once mentioned that we are not to be unequally yoked in faith and a couple of these men told me that a woman should have the qualities to be a submissive wife and that counts more than her faith.

Well Gee, where to start.

I guess first and foremost, I think it important we recognize that these these men are giving themselves up to their passions. There is no way around that one. Because they're certainly not being drawn in by these ladies righteous spirits. If these men truly beleive what your saying, than no Biblical argument will convince them otherwise and as a friend of theirs I would start praying for some intervention!

But if you want to give it a shot, here's some of my thoughts,

1) To believe that they can just "turn anyone" to Christ, is ridiculus. It sounds like they have an ample amount of "Faith" in themselves to save their would be spouses. This sounds very wrong. If they're so insistant they can lead this person to Christ, than challenge them to do just that, THEN get married.

2) These guys are making a quilt from scripture. Yes, wives are called to be submissive but how does that trump faith in Christ? Christians do not get the liberty to choose the passage that idicates a submissive wife "over" the passage that tells us to not be unequally yoked. This did not work well for Solomon and it will not work well for these men. There is a chance that they could come to know Christ, and there is a chance they will pull these (good?)Men down.

3) [bible='1 Corinthians 9:24']Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. [/bible] It doesn't sound like these men are running a race. They are purposely handicaping themselves.

4) In a study I did this past week, we talked about how God is glorified. Ask these men if they really think this act will Glorify God? I ultimately believe that Man and Woman were created to glorify God. And a womens role was further defined in [bible='Gen 2:18']The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” [/bible]. Regardless of your intrepretation of "Helper" it's clear that she was meant to be in union with and work with man towards the end of glorifying God. And even if you think that our purpose is something different than the one I believe, it's doesn't matter, because the woman can't help you to that end if she doesn't believe.


All that said, I need to reiterate that really think this is talking to a wall. These men need to be convicted of this. Share your reservations with them, but pray all the more.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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You know, a good marriage takes more than a good foundation in Christ. It really does. So let's not be too quick to judge people who want to marry without this important foundation. Although, I would not recommend it, it is possible to have a happy marriage with out Christ in common.
 

Cresco

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You know, a good marriage takes more than a good foundation in Christ...... it is possible to have a happy marriage with out Christ in common.

I would serriously question how you define "Happy" and I'm surprised your're not called out more often than you are. A wolf in sheep's clothing, scuttle along now and let the adults talk.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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I would serriously question how you define "Happy" and I'm surprised your're not called out more often than you are. A wolf in sheep's clothing, scuttle along now and let the adults talk.

People are free to act the they want to act, even if it is against their best interests. If you want to 'call me out' don't whimper from the corner - call me out.
 

Foreigner

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Silly me, I could have sworn you were the one who said elsewhere on this board you were "done with politics."

Yeah, yeah, yeah,, I know...you meant it when you said it, etc. etc..blah blah blah
 
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