Christians making laws

[WhiteKnuckle]

I'm examining my "political" views, and examining my "strategy" for spreading the Gospel. I'm of the opinion that Christians trying to dictate "moral laws" is not doing anything good to either the citizens of the US, nor for the spread of the Gospel. It's painfully obvious to me that many hate not Christianity, but Christians. It's not because of what Jesus said, although in many cases it is. However,, Christians trying to force beliefs on others, and especially making certain laws where certain things are illegal. We're going to loose our rights as a Church because we're or we have given power to the Government to create laws that dictate ones morality. It will happen oneday, that Christians will be the minority (already are IMHO) and by the history of us making laws that mandate moral guidelines (outside of harmfull acts) that our "Religion" will be mandated too. So my question is,, Why do Christians feel we should ban things such as Gay marriage, or make any other law that dictates moral values other than those of the safety of others? Seems to me we should allow everyone to persue what ever their desires rather than try to force someone into our beliefs by madating a law.

 

[Tambora]

Could you give an example of where Christians are enforcing a law on someone?

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

One thing specific is gay marriage. Not that I agree with homosexuality, but in a case like this where from my view point, is that it's protected by the Constitution of the United States. I understand abortion because, it is murder. And, laws that protect the innocent and the helpless is what Laws are supposed to be for. So, why do Christians feel it's okay to make "moral" laws for the rest of the country that obviously doesn't believe the same way?

 

[Diana]

[quote name='WhiteKnuckle;74375]One thing specific is gay marriage. Not that I agree with homosexuality' date=' but in a case like this where from my view point, is that it's protected by the Constitution of the United States. I understand abortion because, it is murder. And, laws that protect the innocent and the helpless is what Laws are supposed to be for. So, why do Christians feel it's okay to make "moral" laws for the rest of the country that obviously doesn't believe the same way?[/QUOTE'] Hello WhiteKnuckle, Abortion has to do with morality. We stand against it because, as you say, it is "morally" wrong because we see it as murder. SOME Christians also say that gay marriage has to do with morality. (I emphasized the word "Some" here because this is not true for all Christians). Homosexuals are coming out and demanding that the government allow them to marry, and the government can pass a law saying that they can marry as they did in Massachusetts. It is also posssible that another group of people will come out and demand that the government allow them to marry more than one person (polygamy)? Afterall, there are religious groups who believe in polygamy such as the Mormons and the Muslims, and they also see nothing morally wrong to marry more than one person. If all these laws are passed, what impact will it have on society and on the family? There are other questions to ask if these laws are passed. For example, if these laws are passed will "Mother's Day" and "Father's Day" be banned because homosexuals may see it as an insult to them because a family is now defined differently? Will churches and other religious institutions be sued if they refuse to marry same-sex couples or polygomous marriages? How does this impact religious freedom? How will adoptive children be affected when placed in same-sex unions or polygamous unions? There are many other examples, and all are very difficult questions to answer. But one thing is for sure, it will have an impact on society and the structure of the family. Perhaps, the answer to your question is because Christians see that it will have an impact on society and the family. Peace be with you, Diana

 

[Miss Hepburn]

If all these laws are passed, what impact will it have on society and on the family? There are other questions to ask if these laws are passed. For example, if these laws are passed will "Mother's Day" and "Father's Day" be banned because homosexuals may see it as an insult to them because a family is now defined differently? Will churches and other religious institutions be sued if they refuse to marry same-sex couples or polygomous marriages? How does this impact religious freedom? How will adoptive children be affected when placed in same-sex unions or polygamous unions? There are many other examples, and all are very difficult questions to answer. But one thing is for sure, it will have an impact on society and the structure of the family. Perhaps, the answer to your question is because Christians see that it will have an impact on society and the family.-Diana

A different take, with no offense intended:I don't personally think Mother's and Father's Day would be banned because gays might see them as an insult. (They have mom's and dad's, too) and don't want to "take away" anything.)But, there could be more Hallmark opportunities -and our economy could be stimulated with all the presents being bought by all those rich gay guys (reports say they have lots of money - 2 men working, no kids -or maybe just one)...say, on "Parent's Day or Daddy No. 1 Day and Daddy No. 2 Day". What's the harm in that!! LOL! Anything to advance Hallmark and the tie business, I say! They have to eat, too!Then, I'd love to be a kid smothered in love with 5 mom's -think of all the bike accessories because women discuss....Then just think of all the stimulus with a bunch of wives!! On "Spouse Day or Wives Day". It's staggering what Victoria's Secret could profit!!I do hope it impacts society and the family ---I believe Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, the Boston Strangler, Charles Manson, Bill Gacy, BTK killer Dennis Rader, Wayne Williams to name just a few not only were from heterosexual families, but many sung and served in their churches! ( David Berkowitz may have been Jewish, but from a hetero family. I think Squeaky's family was pretty wacky, though.)So, I say, yes, let's change society. Let' give it a try. ( And allow a couple together for 10-20 years (or 1) be able to visit their partner in ICU. At least give 'em that right, maybe not 'marriage' --- but some Civil Contract )The Rebel Christian, with a different perspective, Miss Hepburn

 

[Diana]

[quote name='Miss Hepburn;74396][B] I do hope it impacts society and the family ---I believe Jeffrey Dahmer' date=' Ted Bundy, the Boston Strangler, Charles Manson, Bill Gacy, BTK killer Dennis Rader, Wayne Williams to name just a few not only were from heterosexual families, but many sung and served in their churches! ( David Berkowitz may have been Jewish, but from a hetero family. I think Squeaky's family was pretty wacky, though.) Miss Hepburn[/COLOR'][/QUOTE] ALL homosexuals came from heterosexual families. A person is born through a sexual relations of a man and a woman.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

[quote name='Diana;74406]ALL homosexuals came from heterosexual families. A person is born through a sexual relations of a man and a woman.[/QUOTE]Y' almost got me there. LOL It's like a trick sentence...homosexuals come from the union of a male and female.Their families could be hetero' date=' homo, single mom, aunts and uncles and grandparents being the parents of the family, then theirs the adopted bros and sisters and the cousins that move in. And don't forget the gay half-brother.The trick word is [I']families.[/I]They come from all sorts of families.

 

[Martin W.]

Right off the top I am going to say that I do not disagree with your position. After all the secular folks are quite separate from the Christian folks. At least it should be that way.Who are we to meddle in their affairs , or make rules for "them" . We certainly do not want them meddling in our affairs.But there is more than that to the issue.In Countries like The US and Canada , our democracy, our freedoms and laws were based in part by Judeo and Christian values and based on that we created laws against certain "sins".I am sure we have prospered greatly by trying to legislate morality. I am sure God has blessed this continent because of it.I challenge everybody to look today at all the problem countries in the world and you will find very little Christianity , or none at all.Those of us in North America who are decent and moral people do not wish to give our approval on issues such as homosexuality , abortion , drugs etc.We know very well these things are going to occur (and always have) , and in a way we have accepted it will happen in the fringes of society.But to let immorality have a free for all ...... well , we know where things will end up , and it is frightening to us , thus we resist , and continue to legislate morality as best we can.And yes , whiteknuckle , you are correct , we are in a losing battle , and it will only get worse. But we must try our best to resist a total slide into sin (as a nation) thus we protest with a small stifled voice till the end.In summary whiteknuckle , I see it as being "our country" , the secular folks are the intruders.

 

[path]

Then you would have anarchy. Who better than Christian people to write the laws of the land? Look what happens when you let “people“ like Pelosi write them!

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

You guys bring up some good points. I'm glad there's still Christians out there that give a thought to what they believe rather than just going with what the "leaders" are saying. I can see the ramifications of "letting" immorality be a free for all. However, by trying to legislate we have rebellions, and parades, etc. If nothing was ever legislated then we wouldn't have those rebellions. It would be done in private and among themselves. Now it's brought into our lives. I completely understand that Christians believe that if we don't legislate, then it means we support it or condone it. Seems to me that too many of us don't make distinctions between tolerating, and condoning. I think too many of us make too many distinctions as to who should get what,, be it "civil" rights protected under the Constitution based on "religious" views. An example is, There's a support group for Atheists. Where their "Christian" families turned against them, and took away college funds, and disowned them, and completely disassociated with them. I guess part of this is trying to help other Believers to not make distinctions between persons based on "morality" or "religious" views. I wouldn't vote to make Islam illegal, and I wouldn't vote to make Hinduism illegal, and so on.

 

[Martin W.]

Most of would not vote to make them illegal. That is simply not our style.But have you noticed "they" (the non christians) have almost made it a sin for us to even say "merry christmas" , or to mention Jesus , or to say The Lords Prayer , or to have the Lords Prayer in any public place ...... And then we must realize some (Islam) countries do not allow Christianity ....If we let Islam take over the majority of America ..... would Islam still allow us to be christians ?Of course I do not think for a minute Islam will take over America , but I think something worse is happening ..... if We , as a nation continue to turn our backs on morals and values dear to christians we will self destruct , no other enemy needed.Not trying to make a point , just thinking out loud ....... interesting discussion. In summary , we would not outlaw any religion , because we do not want anyone outlawing christianity either ..... but it is like it is happening anyway. Hope that makes senseThanksMartin W.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I completely understand what you're saying. This is a weird thing to think about. It's also one of those things I think Christians are afraid to think about. I'm sure if we examine where some our motives stem from we can be more effective. That's why I want to examine this topic. On one hand we know we have the truth, and we're obliged to spread the truth and to warn others. On the other hand we don't want the government to become the moral legislator, yet at the same time we depend on the government to protect us. How has this worked in the past, with motives, tactics, legislation and so on? Naturaly the world hates Jesus, that's a fact. But, it's been my observation that the world hates Christians, but not because of us following the Bible, but because of our mistakes in prosthelytizing. Some good examples would be the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, Church of England, and so on. Anytime a government has passed any laws regarding morals or religion that country has fell into chaos. I'm wondering why many Christians feel personaly responsible for the sins of their neighbors. I've read many false prophets and teachers claiming that God is punishing America and is including the Church for being Apostate, and failing to make everyone believers. We can warn, and teach and reach out to others, but if they don't accept it, there's nothing we can do but say a prayer and move on. Some force the issue, some condemn, and some insult. If we want to feel responsible for something, maybe we can feel responsible in the way we present ourselves and present the Gospel to others.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

... I see it as being "our country" , the secular folks are the intruders. -Martin W.

What an astute way to put it.Miss Hepburn............................................................................ And Whiteknuckle, excellent, I'm following everything you have said. You are so right on. What I wonder is why doesn't everyone get it. It all seems so simple when you say it, but Christians continue to judge and push their beliefs on others so that people can't stand them.I just had a conversation with someone that knows I am a Christian, but peppered my coversation with comments about loving my Buddhists friends and my atheist friends. And what a tensionless talk we had. Next time he will be so open to me talking about Jesus - he knows now I have no particular agenda except to express my Joy. He can remain whatever he is. Afterall, it is the Lord that draws. And yet, in the past when I have expressed this on other forums I have been attacked. As if I do something wrong by not being more "upfront".I say, use your God-given brain and learn the game of how to win people for the Lord. (Then I've been attacked that this is not a 'game'. Ha!)Be someone a non-Christian wants to be. Show to a non-Christian something they want. Radiate the simple Joy that you've been given. I say. Thanks,Miss Hepburn