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Christmas Good Or Bad?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by gumby, Dec 20, 2009.

  1. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    Ok CB members this year im going to go deep in gods word about christmas concerning the good and bad aspects of it.

    Good: it focuses on the birth of jesus

    Bad: theres no evidence in the bible to support that jesus was born on december 25th

    Good: it focuses on giving to the poor the ultimate gift which is christ

    Bad: lots of idolitry in the holiday. Santa clause, elves, christmas trees, mistltoe. All of those things having pagan roots

    Conlusion, we dont need a specific date to celebrate the birth of our lord and savior we can do so whenever throught the year we can give christ to the needly at all times of the year not just december 25th. Overall i dont celebrate the holiday because its not commanded to in scripture to celebrate on december 25th. Jeremiah 10:1-4 speaks about the idolitry associated with chrsitmas trees and thats what i want yall to think about this year is the trees and the concept of santa clause............think how degrading that is to our lord. I know this may offend some but i preach out of love and concern for you all.

    God bless :)
     
  2. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    No where in God's Word is there any real reason to celebrate Jesus birthday. I myself look at Christmas as a time of giving, a time for my Grandkids. I have no problem with Christmas because I do not attempt to put Christ is Christmas. Jesus in my heart that is all that matters.

    I do remember as a child back in the fifties when we had awesome Christmas plays at school and how we sang "Silent Night" and how it truly touched me. But God is soverign over all things and there is another part of scripture I will quote now. "and it came to pass" nothing comes to say in this carnal earthy Word except Jesus who is Lord over all things.
     
  3. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    The debate about whether or not Christians should celebrate Christmas has been raging for centuries. There are equally sincere and committed Christians on both sides of the issue, each with multiple reasons why or why not Christmas should be celebrated in Christian homes. But what does the Bible say? Does the Bible give clear direction as to whether Christmas is a holiday to be celebrated by Christians?

    First, let’s look at the reasons why Christians do not celebrate Christmas. One argument against Christmas is that the traditions surrounding the holiday have origins in paganism. Searching for reliable information on this topic is difficult because the origins of many of our traditions are so obscure that sources often contradict one another. Bells, candles, holly, and yuletide decorations are mentioned in the history of pagan worship, but the use of such in one’s home certainly does not indicate a return to paganism. While there are definitely pagan roots to some traditions, there are many more traditions associated with the true meaning of Christmas—the birth of the Savior of the world in Bethlehem. Bells are played to ring out the joyous news, candles are lit to remind us that Christ is the Light of the world (John 1:4-9), a star is placed on the top of a Christmas tree to remember the Star of Bethlehem, and gifts are exchanged to remind us of the gifts of the Magi to the baby Jesus, the greatest gift of God to mankind.

    Another argument against Christmas, especially having a Christmas tree, is that the Bible forbids bringing trees into our homes and decorating them. The passage often cited is Jeremiah 10:1-16, but this passage refers to cutting down trees, chiseling the wood to make an idol, and then decorating the idol with silver and gold for the purpose of bowing down before it to worship it (see also Isaiah 44:9-18). The passage in Jeremiah cannot be taken out of its context and used to make a legitimate argument against Christmas trees.

    Christians who choose to ignore Christmas point to the fact that the Bible doesn’t give us the date of Christ’s birth, which is certainly true. December 25 may not be even close to the time Jesus was born and arguments on both sides are legion, some relating to climate in Palestine, the practices of shepherds in winter, and the dates of Roman census-taking. None of these points is without a certain amount of conjecture, which brings us back to the fact that the Bible doesn’t tell us when Jesus was born. Some see this as proof positive that God didn’t want us to celebrate the birth, while others see the Bible’s silence on the issue as tacit approval.

    Some Christians say that since the world celebrates Christmas—although it is becoming more and more politically correct to refer to it as ‘the holidays’—Christians should avoid it. But that is the same argument made by false religions that deny Christ altogether, as well as cults such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses who deny His deity. Those Christians who do celebrate Christmas often see the occasion as an opportunity to proclaim Him as ‘the reason for the season’ among the nations and to those trapped in false religions.

    As we have seen, there is no legitimate scriptural reason not to celebrate Christmas. At the same time, there is no biblical mandate to celebrate either. In the end, of course, whether or not to celebrate Christmas is a personal decision. Whatever Christians decide to do regarding Christmas, their views should not be used as a club with which to beat down or denigrate those with opposing views, nor should either view be used as a badge of honor inducing pride over celebrating or not celebrating. As in all things, we seek wisdom from Him who gives it liberally to all who ask (James 1:5), and accept one another in Christian love and grace, regardless of our views on Christmas.
    GotQuestions.org
     
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  4. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    My purpose is not to degrade brother my purpose is to teach gods truth here, i celebrate christ birth just not on decenber 25th. I went to my church today and the holy spirit spoke through a stranger that was preaching the message. The man said that christmas should not be a seasonal thing for beleivers that it should be year round not just when the calender rolls around. Psalms 16:17, John 14:23 and 2nd Corinthians 13:14.

    Just look at how many other false gods were born on december 25th in other religions.......................to many to name freind.

    Im sorry if i offended you but like i say brother i preach out of love for you and this forum not in hatred, God bless :)
     
  5. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    forgivenWretch,

    Excellent post. Thanks for sharing that article. The only thing I would add is the following:

    Rom 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
    Rom 14:6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
     
  6. forgivenWretch

    forgivenWretch New Member

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    Gumby, I was not offended in any manner, and yes I most assuredly agree that we should celebrate Christ's birth everyday. Too much emphasis is put on dates, or so and so did this or did that. We as Christians need to quit focusing on the past and focus on now. Our job is to "Go tell it on the mountain". We are to share and spread the good news, and IMHO, the good news is that Christ died and arose the third day. He birth is very important, but His death tops it all. I too come in Love.....Wayne
     
  7. kestrel

    kestrel New Member

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    To be honest, and a little blunt, I don't care about the pagan roots of any tradition, especially those that are not celebrated in my own country, :) I care for the celebration of the birth of the Lord.
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Bingo!

    I look upon Christmas as a time where we "celebrate" the birth, life and death of Christ. I think we do need to understand that it's a day which can be quickly proven not to be the birth date of our Lord. However, I do believe that it's the day where he was conceived. Regardless of whether or not it is, it's a time for us to call into remembrance what our Savior does for us. Sure we should always do that, but what harm exactly is there in having a special day set aside for his birth?

    Regardless, if someone believes that the three wisemen came to visit our savior on his birth, that does not bother me, and shouldn't bother anyone one way or another.

    Things like tree decorations are, IMHO, representative of Christ being the tree of life. Anything can become an idol, so to me that's a difficult argument. A depiction of Christ can be an idol, for instance.
     
  9. gervais

    gervais New Member

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    I just posted an answer at: http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/11501-the-birth-of-christ-december-25th/
     
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  10. Miss Hepburn

    Miss Hepburn Well-Known Member

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    Well, gee - isn't Christmas just a chance for people who hardly ever think about Jesus to have an opportunity to
    put there minds a least A LITTLE on Jesus and God?

    We all here think of and talk to Jesus all the time.

    We can't stop! We could be watching Halloween 3 right now -but are we? Or at a bar!

    We don't "need " Christmas -but, boy does the secular world!!


    :) Miss Hepburn
     
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  11. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    Becasue it lumps jesus in with all the other false pagan gods and deitys celebrated on december 25th, god doesnt like it just like he doesnt like passover being replaced with the heathan holiday easter.
     
  12. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Unlike Easter, I don't see Christmas supplanting Christ. Santa is Santa, and I don't really ever see him overtaking the role of God. In fact, as a child, I remember my conception of Santa being a rather Godly (Christian) man. I think for the mind of a child this really gives them something to believe in and prepares the way for God in some respects. It begins a belief in something more; compared to God Santa is quite a simple character. Simply because something may bare traces of paganism that are questionable in names, doesn't mean the concept or day itself is evil, if it is used for God.

    Is our God not concerned with the intents of the heart, ultimately? (Hosea 6:6)

    Keep this in mind to reference Romans 14. For look at the enemies of God; they hate Christmas. It's a time of year (whether in error or not) where manger scenes are displayed across the land and many references to God are made. Sure they might revel in the excess shopping and delight in the high stress environment, but the old enemy is often at work trying to curtail what hurts him the most.

    Like Miss Hepburn put it so well, we don't need Christmas, but we have it. Use it. If it returns one of the lost than it's more than worth it.

    Knowing and understanding what is contained in the study that Gervais posted will go a long way. Make it a day about God regardless of name.
     
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  13. kestrel

    kestrel New Member

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    It doesn't, almost nobody care about those gods or even know their names.
     
  14. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    I completely agree.

    Nevermind that the origins are pagan. Why would it be a bad thing for someone who worshiped false gods use that very thing to glorify the true God once they believed? It's all subjective really. If you think it's a sin, then don't do it, because to you it is a sin. But, if you don't think it's a sin, then do it. However, neither party should use their conscience view to hurt the others conscience.

    In my house we celebrate Christmas. If I go to someone elses house that doesn't celebrate, then I wont celebrate or try to convince them otherwise. Honor God however you want as long as it's not sinfull, (as in the outlines of exactly what sin is in the Bible.)

    If I honor God with a tree an lights and the spirit of giving on a certain day of my choosing, whether it coincides with a pubic holiday, then God is honored. If I choose not to honor God with a tree and lights and see the Christmas holiday as a paganistic disgrace, then I also honor God by not celebrating.

    I love the Freedom we have in Jesus to "decide" how we are going to honor God. It hink this is a good example of what Paul meant.
     
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  15. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    The orgins of christmas are pure idolitry freind, the pagans worshipped trees, santa clause is a god like figure among children that rides around in a slay with magical beasts pulling the slay. Hear what the lord says about paganism. Leviticus 18:3, Leviticus 20:23 and Deuteronomy 12:30
     
  16. kestrel

    kestrel New Member

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    Santa is more of an American tradition not essential to Christmas. I'm not American btw, and in my home we have no santa, not for anything regarding to faith, but because it's a foreign custom.
     
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  17. TallMan

    TallMan New Member

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    . . if some stranger wishes me "merry Christmas" I will ask him/her if they know what the word means?

    They almost certainly won't, so I will tell them it means anointed feast and then tell them their soul doesn't need to be empty it can be truly satisfied by God's Spirit,
    which is the whole reason for Jesus coming anyway.
    I will ask them if they would like to receive God's present, if so I will call on The Lord with them.

    Acts 2:4, 33, 39.
     
  18. WhiteKnuckle

    WhiteKnuckle New Member

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    I'm not talking about santa or worshiping trees. I'm not trying to argue, but since this is an open discussion,,,

    If we worshiped the tree, that would be bad. If we teach our kids about sana (as being real) that's also bad. However,,,, Not to say that the old testament is meaningless for today,, we're not under the Law of moses. At that time, there was a certain and specific way for Gods people to glorify and worship. There was a set guideline and rules and regulation. Anything resembing another form of worship was an abomination.

    However through Jesus we're not bound to those laws or customs. If we are a "law unto ourselves" that means we can also choose to glorify and worship God however we see fit. Given that it's not a sin,, such as, worship idols, greed, lust of the flesh, etc, etc,,,, As long as it abides the same moral guideline the Lord has given us for what sin is and isn't.

    Although, as stated some things are subjective to the believer,,, such as,, Christmas,, Sunday, Tithe, Gambling, Certain foods, etc etc....

    Pagans also lit candles, danced, bowed, prayed, made offerings, etc,, should we stop that just because they did.

    If you celebrate Christmas, and the focus of that holiday is some specifics about Jesus Christ, as in traditionaly the Birth of Christ, I see no harm at all. If you don't feel comfortable with the holiday and it's origins, and your conscience is pricked, so you don't celebrate Christmas,, I see no harm in that either. God is glorified by both parties.

    But, the one who feels okay to Celebrate Christmas, shouldn't try to argue and convince someone else that it's okay. It should all be done respectfully from one believer to another. That's what the Spirit of Christ is about.
     
  19. gumby

    gumby New Member

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    Im very nice to people whiteknuckle and i have respect for others views on here but the fact remains that the bible forbids idolitry. Exodus 4:4 , Exodus 4:5, Exodus 4:6, Leviticus 26:1, Deuteronomy 4:15, Deuteronomy 4:16, Deuteronomy 4:17, Deuteronomy 4:18, Deuteronomy 27:15, Psalms 97:7.

    Think about what people celebrate christmas with, we decorate our trees with little turtle doves and have the image of santa clause that we just must have evry year. We put a star on our tree even though gods word says not to. We exchange gifts out of greed and look forward to going out and shopping and spending hundreds of dollers evry year. Even though gods word forbids to be greedy. Think about the discrace that god looks down upon evry christmas and sees his children beleiving in santa and elves. You know santa spells Satan...................its not a councidence that satan is involved with christmas.

    God bless and i pray that you learn the truth freind.
     
  20. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Good, nice time to take a holiday, being the end of the year, and we all need a rest, and catch up with family
    Bad- It has nothing to do with God, just like easter
    Its all about satan claus, the little man in the red suit
    it gets people into debt, whats Godly about that
    The rich get richer
    the poor get poorer
    the lonely out there just get more lonely
    And then ther is Jesus, He gets all these so called chritans who want nothing to do with Him all year, go to church so that they can feel good funtill eater, but jesus is forgotten they moment they step out the door.

    But then ther are a few who Just celebrate our freind Jesus everyday, since He is always with us, and we would not survive without Him. I despise plastic people, and chritans seem to be the worst.

    In His Love
     
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