Conversation with An Atheist

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Mancunian

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Mancunian, by logic alone you admit creation did not appear on its own but "someone or something" using your expressions did create order and life. Then, the next step therefore is to seek out with intent of finding out why we are here and you will have your answer.
I've often wondered about purpose, I know that in this life that you look for purpose and sometimes find it in different things....
My purpose for example is to live a good life and to ensure that my family are taken care of financially when I die.
Also I like to make people laugh (although looking at the jokes thread, there's room for improvement)
My question would be, how could you ever find a purpose in an eternal life?

With the view that there's only one life, I believe that people find their own purpose and work towards their own goals...

I can't understand what my ultimate perpose would be in a never ending existence.
 

Episkopos

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I've often wondered about purpose, I know that in this life that you look for purpose and sometimes find it in different things....
My purpose for example is to live a good life and to ensure that my family are taken care of financially when I die.
Also I like to make people laugh (although looking at the jokes thread, there's room for improvement)
My question would be, how could you ever find a purpose in an eternal life?

With the view that there's only one life, I believe that people find their own purpose and work towards their own goals...

I can't understand what my ultimate perpose would be in a never ending existence.
The bible says eyes have not seen nor ear heard. The wonders that await those who love God and love others.

Have you ever watched a movie that inspired your imagination? Any imagination fails the reality of what God has in store. It's enough to get excited about. :)

Peace
 

Marvelloustime

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Since the beginning of my own walk by Faith in CHRIST by the grace of GOD .,,
HE put me into ONE BOOK . The BIBLE . any guesses as to WHY HE would do that .
What is the eaisest way to discern a counterfiet bill .
IS it to study all the counterfiets , OF WHICH are many and always changing to adapt ,
OR is it TO LEARN an dcontinue to learn and continue to learn FROM HE WHO IS THE TRUTH .
You can easily discern the counterfeit , IF YOU KNOW the REAL .
And oh yeah HE will g ive us a mouth to speak unto any . FOR GOD knows far well and far better than we
ON WHAT TO SAY and what TO SPEAK . DO be encouraged my friend . And line them walls
and stand in the trenches . Cause the hour is far far later than what many now realize it to be...................
@amigo de christo
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Marvelloustime

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How often GOD did desire GOOD for humanity
only man did not desire what was GOOD for him but rather loved and embraced his sin .
NOw how about a huge and mighty praise and thanksgiving fest unto THE GOD and oNLY GOD
of our LORD and SAVOIR JESUS CHRIST , who in JESUS we have been given life and been freed from death .
And now by HIS SPIRIT we can live and walk pleasing unto God BY FAITH . TO the trenches my friend
the hour is late and many are fast to replace the one true gospel of THIS CHRIST OF GOD in favor
of the love of a harlot whose love is only death and shall lead them all unto the second death .
@amigo de christo
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LoveYeshua

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I've often wondered about purpose, I know that in this life that you look for purpose and sometimes find it in different things....
My purpose for example is to live a good life and to ensure that my family are taken care of financially when I die.
Also I like to make people laugh (although looking at the jokes thread, there's room for improvement)
My question would be, how could you ever find a purpose in an eternal life?

With the view that there's only one life, I believe that people find their own purpose and work towards their own goals...

I can't understand what my ultimate perpose would be in a never ending existence.
we know from the bible it is said God created us in HIS image, that is important to know, I will give an important verse to ponder but examine the context of the whole chapter it is important and revealing;

Jhn 17:11 I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one.

it is not clear what we will become and do, but I believe what Jesus said. the purpose of this if to be part of GOD's family as your children are part of your family.

“I said, ‘You are gods,
And all of you are children of the Most High.’”

— Psalm 82:6

What about after the resurrection, Jesus gives us a very interesting answer:

“For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven.”
— Matthew 22:30

ill leave you with this for now but don't worry you wont be stuck on a cloud for eternity playing the harp that is certain. lol

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Wrangler

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A book you might like is Atheism on Trial by Louis Markos.

A profound point in the book that I’ve adopted in my conversations with Atheists is that I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Not that this is in the book but from the author of Signature in the Cell, is suppose we are walking in a forest and along the path we happen upon a book. The existence of the book implies the existence of a writer. Now one can speculate alternatives. It really is a product of natural processes, millions of monkeys mindlessly typing for millions of years, etc. Yet, these other alternatives are not as plausible as a human mind wrote the book. It probably even contains the name of the author IF read the language.

So, you @Mancunian believe existence implies the existence of a conscious mind (though not necessarily the Christian God). Can you expand on that?
 
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Mancunian

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A profound point in the book that I’ve adopted in my conversations with Atheists is that I don’t have enough faith to be an Atheist.

Not that this is in the book but from the author of Signature in the Cell, is suppose we are walking in a forest and along the path we happen upon a book. The existence of the book implies the existence of a writer. Now one can speculate alternatives. It really is a product of natural processes, millions of monkeys mindlessly typing for millions of years, etc. Yet, these other alternatives are not as plausible as a human mind wrote the book. It probably even contains the name of the author IF read the language.

So, you @Mancunian believe existence implies the existence of a conscious mind (though not necessarily the Christian God). Can you expand on that?
Yes I think that existence implies that there must have been a creative force behind it, but I wouldn't necessarily assert that whatever it was still exists.... Maybe it does IDK.

I'm of the opinion that if the creative force/God specifically wanted a relationship with mankind it would have created the conditions for mankind to appear millions of years sooner than it did.
I'll never understand why that a God who loves a species that is created in it's own image would go through all of the rigmarole of evolution?

We know that evolution by natural selection is the accepted scientific theory of our existence..
Even if you don't agree personally, there are plenty of Christians worldwide that do, and I don't know how they square that circle.
 

LoveYeshua

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Yes I think that existence implies that there must have been a creative force behind it, but I wouldn't necessarily assert that whatever it was still exists.... Maybe it does IDK.

I'm of the opinion that if the creative force/God specifically wanted a relationship with mankind it would have created the conditions for mankind to appear millions of years sooner than it did.
I'll never understand why that a God who loves a species that is created in it's own image would go through all of the rigmarole of evolution?

We know that evolution by natural selection is the accepted scientific theory of our existence..
Even if you don't agree personally, there are plenty of Christians worldwide that do, and I don't know how they square that circle.
Sorry, as a scientist evolution is still a theory and NOT proven in any way. its still the case today. Its Just a theory.
 

Mancunian

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Sorry, as a scientist evolution is still a theory and NOT proven in any way. its still the case today. Its Just a theory.
A theory is a scientific fact, I think that you must be thinking of a hypothesis?
A theory in science takes into account all known facts, and is the best current explanation... Gravitational theory explains by facts why the apple falls downward.
 
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Mancunian

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Science challenges itself and tries to break new ground everyday. Many scientific disciplines contribute facts as pieces of a huge jigsaw that is the theory of evolution by natural selection.
All of these branches of science are in absolute agreement with eachother.
 

Mancunian

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Evolutionary Genetics: Studies how genes, DNA sequences, and mutations change within populations to drive adaptation and the formation of new species.

Paleontology: Examines prehistoric life and fossils preserved in rock layers to trace macroevolution and the history of life on Earth.

Phylogenetics & Systematics: Focuses on classifying organisms and building "trees of life" to map the evolutionary relationships between different species.

Comparative Anatomy & Embryology: Compares the body structures and developmental stages of different species to identify shared ancestry and homologous traits.

Ecology: Explores how environmental interactions and natural selection pressures drive changes in populations over generations.

Evolutionary Developmental Biology ("Evo-Devo"): Investigates the connection between an organism's embryonic development and its evolutionary history.I

Interdisciplinary and Applied Sciences

Microbiology & Virology: Observes rapid evolutionary changes and natural selection in real-time using fast-reproducing microbes and viruses like influenza.A

Anthropology (Biological/Physical): Traces human origins, primate history, and the physical adaptation of human ancestors.

Geology & Geochemistry: Uses radiometric dating and the stratigraphic rock record to provide the chronological and environmental timeline for when evolutionary events occurred.

Medicine & Epidemiology: Relies on evolutionary concepts to understand how pathogens develop drug resistance and how annual vaccines must be updated to target mutating viruses.
 

NayborBear

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I'm of the opinion that if the creative force/God specifically wanted a relationship with mankind it would have created the conditions for mankind to appear millions of years sooner than it did.
Welp?
Actually? It DID!
Sure you've heard of Greek Mythology.
Not as "Mythical" as is wanted to be thought of.
There WAS a "slice of eternity" PRIOR to Adam n Eve.
When Satan, aka Zeus did this:
Revelation 12:4

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

This was/is known as the "Katabol" or "ATTEMPTED Overthrow" of the Kingdom of God!
In which GOD caused THIS to occur!:
Jeremiah 4:
22 For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish(aka stupid) children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. (THIS is WHERE this CURRENT "slice of eternity", or the "Foundations" where the "Lamb that was slain from the foundations of the world (aka slice of eternity) CAME INTO BEING)) And where and WHEN "The CHOICE" or free will was brought.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

And here as well:

2 Peter 3:
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (PREVIOUS "slice of erternity")

(CURRENT "slice of eternity!)

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

So you see? He DID create mankind millions of years before!
 

Wrangler

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So, you @Mancunian believe existence implies the existence of a conscious mind (though not necessarily the Christian God). Can you expand on that?

Yes I think that existence implies that there must have been a creative force behind it, but I wouldn't necessarily assert that whatever it was still exists.... Maybe it does IDK.

OK. So we agree there was a Creator to existence. :tiphat: :Broadly:

I'm of the opinion that if the creative force/God specifically wanted a relationship with mankind it would have created the conditions for mankind to appear ... sooner ...
I'll never understand why that a God who loves a species that is created in it's own image would go through all of the rigmarole

I picked up on your moral objection to the Judeo-Christian God of the Bible in several posts. Is morality the primary reason you are an Atheist?
 

Wrangler

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We know that evolution by natural selection is the accepted scientific theory of our existence..
I believe it was @Armour of God who posted recently that his primary objection to TOE (Theory of Evolution) is that it causes us to go away from God. That was his experience and it appears to be yours as well.

LONG TIME is the answer to every question that might otherwise point us to God. Obviously, debating that is outside the scope of this thread but I just want to plant the seed of that pathway to deceive well intentioned people for several centuries now. Fortunately, modern scientific breakthroughs and discovers of the last half century has brought us closer to God on various fronts.

One of the biggest discoveries that Darwin could not have known about is the informational content of DNA. Information is not naturally occurring and is found in every cell in every form of life on Earth. The implications are staggering.

In the thread I started Evidence to Be Seen, there is a vid Is Genesis Real that has 20 PhD Creationist Scientists show how the evidence does not support TOE but Creation model fits better. Please watch it. Several problems with TOE to consider are:

Humbling facts for evolutionists should be:
  1. No species has ever been observed turning into another species (one poster was wise enough to not fall for word play and properly defined species as functionallybeing able to produce (fertile) offspring).
    • This one fact should reduce TOE to a mere godless hypothesis.
    • Pathetic how prideful scientists and educators dismiss empirical science to advance a material, godless hypothesis. (They excuse themselves of this burden due to LONG TIME. Convenient rationalization to cloak atheistic religion in scientific dressing).
  2. There are no transitional species,no missing links in the entire fossil record - for humans or any other species on earth. Evolutionists claim fossils, like Lucy, are early man, such claim falls short of an actual transitional species.
    • This is another example of evolutionists invoking Strawman.
    • Honestly, you pointed out @Grailhunter use of this particular fallacious reasoning so often and effectively, I felt embarrassed for him.
    • It's like he's blind to the weakness of his position because he emotionally and ego invested in it. I'm a mature man and am confident in my conclusions even while acknowledging the valid points of the opposing side. Our society is so dumbed down we seem to think that all evidence must support only one side. See cancel culture.
  3. Unreliable carbon dating.
    • The Ark Encounter has an exhibit of a plane that crashed near the pole during WWII and was found some 30 feet under ice.
    • Ice samples were send to 3 different labs. Results varied wildly with the most recent indicating the ice was 500 years old.
    • Question for the educated; Given carbon dating is inaccurate for a sample of known age, how can it be trusted for the age of unknown samples?
  4. The fossil record better supports the flood than any other explanation.
  • Evolutionists and Creationists rely on the same body of evidence.
  • When one thinks about the mechanism of fossilization, especially those containing soft tissue, it requires rapid burying before predation or scavenging. Random burying or a massive flood in a one time event explain the evidence. IMO, random burying does not explain the fossil record nearly as well as a worldwide flood (due to how many fossils are found).
And getting back to your point, TOE convinces young people there is no God. Ever been to the Creation Museum in Kentucky? It explains two types of science, observational and historical. Historical science makes certain assumptions that students should be taught and how these don't hold up to scrutiny, LONG TIME, constant rate of change, constant laws of physics, just to name a few. (I'm ashamed that I used to be a rabid TOE guy, myself.)

True. Real science supposed to be observable and testable.
Theory of evolution (TOE) is neither.
It is known as a theoretical science which operates on a much lower standard of evidence which is based on speculation and assumption. It's closer to philosophy than science.
Microevolution happens.
Mutations happen.
Natural selection also happens with factors such as weather or food supply.
Those moths changed colour over time because the trees changed colour over time, that's not evolution that's natural selection.

But macroevolution never happens.
A species of animal doesn't come from another species of animal. It's never been observed and not even genetic engineering can acheive it



When you ask an evolutionist how life began many will simply say that not their field of science, that belongs to abiogenesis.
In any case, theoretic materialist science says that all life came from one single cell known as the universal common ancestor.
Problem is that a cell can only replicate itself. A lions skin cell can only replicate a lions skin cell, it cannot replicate a human heart cell.



Darwin admitted this. But take a fossil such as Lucy. A bunch of bones scattered over a large area. So it's an assumption that it came from one individual. It's less than 50% of a complete skeleton, has no feet bones so it's an assumption that it was a biped. It had no skull so it's an assumption it had a human-like skull. And it's hip was modified to make it look human.
And they point to that as being a transitional fossil between ape and human when it's all based on assumption. If it's actually from one individual in the first place it is just another ape.

A fossil called Archaeopteryx was thought to be a missing link that showed reptiles evolving into birds but it's just an extinct animal. Later they would find that birds were already around before then.

They've also fraudently made fossils. Piltdown man was the best evidence they had for humans coming from apes. It held firm for almost 50 years before it was discovered that they had put a humans skull onto an apes jaw.



That's also true. Everything deteriorates.
Cells are constantly deteriorating. That's why they have to duplicate so often. A mutation of nearly always a deleterious one. It cannot produce an animal of a different kind. It runs contrary to the laws of thermodynamics.



True. Different colur hair, skin, eyes in humans are types of mutations but a human is still a human.
Humans have been breeding animals such as dogs and farm animals for thousands of years. We see different breeds but a dog is still a dog, it has never evolved into anything else, they can all still breed with eachother despite being different breeds.



Exactly. How does a single cell evolve into different cells and then different systems and then arrange themselves into different animals. It's nothing more than speculation and wishful thinking



Information doesn't form randomly. You can just randomly put letters together and expect to form coherent words. It would just be an illiterate mess. Only an intelligent designer can put down this code and information in our DNA that is required for life.



True. Sometimes they'll say that because animals or genes have similar parts that us evidence for evolution. Again it's nothing more then speculation and wishful thinking.

A Hilux has similar parts to a Land Cruiser, sometimes identical parts. That doesn't mean one evolved from another, it just means its creator, Toyota, used the same parts for two different vehicles.

I enjoyed threading this @Jericho
If you wrote this then your a genius but even if you copy and paste it your a smart person.

Praise does not go to processes that are blind, random and materialistic as TOE says

Praise goes to God
 
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Wrangler

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@Mancunian,

A question I have had that I've been meaning to ask is your motivation for signing up to a Christian site. What do you hope to get out of it? I'll do what I can to bring value to you as different ideas are discussed. I know there are many great conversationalists here (and sadly, those who are adverse witnesses, which I liberally add to my ignore list).

W
 
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Science challenges itself and tries to break new ground everyday. Many scientific disciplines contribute facts as pieces of a huge jigsaw that is the theory of evolution by natural selection.
All of these branches of science are in absolute agreement with eachother.
All scientists can do is discover what God already created. Its already there and scientists just "discover" it. But some theorize what they have seen and put it in a box that explains something their finite brains can understand. God is infinite. and, 1 Cor. 1:20 -Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
 
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PeterAndroz

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All scientists can do is discover what God already created. Its already there and scientists just "discover" it. But some theorize what they have seen and put it in a box that explains something their finite brains can understand. God is infinite. and, 1 Cor. 1:20 -Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
At ABSOLUTE BEST, ask them what their atheist faith offers them for after their last breath.
Nothing, zip, zilch.
With the ONLY hope being that they don't come face to face with Whom they have spent their life rejecting.
No wonder they are so sour and down trodden.
 

Mancunian

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@Mancunian,

A question I have had that I've been meaning to ask is your motivation for signing up to a Christian site. What do you hope to get out of it? I'll do what I can to bring value to you as different ideas are discussed. I know there are many great conversationalists here (and sadly, those who are adverse witnesses, which I liberally add to my ignore list).

W
I've been asking myself that very question.
I suppose I was hoping for something different in terms of answers, I thought that people here might have something to say that I'd never heard before.

I also thought that I might make a few friends and bust the myth that atheists are bad people who 'just want to sin'.
I'm not here to be disruptive or 'do the devil's work'.
I must admit that I've learned things here, I was expecting more of a United front and more agreement between Christians.
It's been a real eye opener.
 

Mancunian

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At ABSOLUTE BEST, ask them what their atheist faith offers them for after their last breath.
Nothing, zip, zilch.
With the ONLY hope being that they don't come face to face with Whom they have spent their life rejecting.
No wonder they are so sour and down trodden.
Atheism isn't a faith.
Because there isn't anything on offer after death, and it's not a very nice or comforting thought, that doesn't mean it's an unreasonable position to take.
 

Mancunian

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All scientists can do is discover what God already created. Its already there and scientists just "discover" it. But some theorize what they have seen and put it in a box that explains something their finite brains can understand. God is infinite. and, 1 Cor. 1:20 -Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
The difference between religions and science is....
Science never stops searching for answers to the big questions... Where did we come from? How did the universe begin?
Religions claim to know the answers already.