Conversation with An Atheist
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I used to fully accept LONG TIME. Now, I lean toward the eye witness timeline. Did you reply to the post about the WWII plane found under 500 feet of ice?
Based on ice samples, the WWII plane was buried 10,000’s of years ago. There’s also volcanic rock that formed in our life time but radioactive dating puts it at millions of years ago.
So, the question becomes, if you can’t trust radioactive dating of known samples, how can you trust it for unknown samples?
Is radiometric dating accurate??
Radiometric dating is highly accurate and reliable for determining the age of rocks and minerals, with a standard margin of error typically ranging from less than 1% to a few percent when applied correctly.
How It Works
• Decay Rates: Radioactive isotopes (parent atoms) decay into stable elements (daughter atoms) at a constant, well-measured rate known as a half-life.
• Closed Systems: When minerals like zircon or volcanic rocks cool, they trap parent isotopes. By measuring the ratio of parent-to-daughter isotopes, scientists calculate how long ago the rock formed.
• Cross-Checking: Scientists increase accuracy by using multiple independent dating methods (such as Uranium-Lead, Potassium-Argon, and Rubidium-Strontium) on the same rock layers.
Why It Is Reliable
• Constant Rates: Extensive physical experiments (including tests by the National Institute of Standards and Technology) show that radioactive decay rates do not change under varying environmental conditions like pressure, temperature, or solar radiation.
• Known Standards: Methods are routinely tested and confirmed using materials of known historical or geological ages.
Limitations and Common Errors
Radiometric dating is not a one-size-fits-all tool and can yield incorrect results if misapplied:
• Mismatched Scales: Using an isotope with a long half-life (like Potassium-40, which takes 1.2 billion years) on a very young object (like a modern or decades-old rock) leads to massive margins of error.
• Open Systems: If heat, groundwater, or pressure causes parent or daughter isotopes to leak in or out of the rock over time, the "clock" can be skewed.
• Sedimentary Rock Limits: Most fossils are found in sedimentary rock, which cannot be dated directly with long-term radiometric methods. Instead, scientists use bracketing—dating volcanic ash or igneous layers above and below the sedimentary layer.
Radiometric dating is highly accurate and reliable for determining the age of rocks and minerals, with a standard margin of error typically ranging from less than 1% to a few percent when applied correctly.
How It Works
• Decay Rates: Radioactive isotopes (parent atoms) decay into stable elements (daughter atoms) at a constant, well-measured rate known as a half-life.
• Closed Systems: When minerals like zircon or volcanic rocks cool, they trap parent isotopes. By measuring the ratio of parent-to-daughter isotopes, scientists calculate how long ago the rock formed.
• Cross-Checking: Scientists increase accuracy by using multiple independent dating methods (such as Uranium-Lead, Potassium-Argon, and Rubidium-Strontium) on the same rock layers.
Why It Is Reliable
• Constant Rates: Extensive physical experiments (including tests by the National Institute of Standards and Technology) show that radioactive decay rates do not change under varying environmental conditions like pressure, temperature, or solar radiation.
• Known Standards: Methods are routinely tested and confirmed using materials of known historical or geological ages.
Limitations and Common Errors
Radiometric dating is not a one-size-fits-all tool and can yield incorrect results if misapplied:
• Mismatched Scales: Using an isotope with a long half-life (like Potassium-40, which takes 1.2 billion years) on a very young object (like a modern or decades-old rock) leads to massive margins of error.
• Open Systems: If heat, groundwater, or pressure causes parent or daughter isotopes to leak in or out of the rock over time, the "clock" can be skewed.
• Sedimentary Rock Limits: Most fossils are found in sedimentary rock, which cannot be dated directly with long-term radiometric methods. Instead, scientists use bracketing—dating volcanic ash or igneous layers above and below the sedimentary layer.
What about ultimate purpose?
As I've said before, I think that we find out own purpose in life.
Some of us marry and have a family, some of us don't. Some people work tirelessly for charities and try to help the less fortunate, some people work tirelessly to accumulate wealth. Some people are power crazy, some people are happy being the minions.
In an eternal life all of the above don't apply as far as I can tell.
What would drive people in an endless life, what would be the purpose?
At least in this life we have goals, hopes and dreams to work towards.
We have emotions, things that make us happy, sad, angry or sympathetic....
I can't see anything eternal life could possibly have to offer. To me, an eternity of mindless worship isn't a reward and doesn't sound much like paradise.
As I've said in previous posts.... If I'm in heaven with full knowledge of who I'm in heaven with, and where most people have ended up... How could I be happy? Unless of course I'm in a zombie like state or every ounce of empathy has left my being.
As I've said before, I think that we find out own purpose in life.
Some of us marry and have a family, some of us don't. Some people work tirelessly for charities and try to help the less fortunate, some people work tirelessly to accumulate wealth. Some people are power crazy, some people are happy being the minions.
In an eternal life all of the above don't apply as far as I can tell.
What would drive people in an endless life, what would be the purpose?
At least in this life we have goals, hopes and dreams to work towards.
We have emotions, things that make us happy, sad, angry or sympathetic....
I can't see anything eternal life could possibly have to offer. To me, an eternity of mindless worship isn't a reward and doesn't sound much like paradise.
As I've said in previous posts.... If I'm in heaven with full knowledge of who I'm in heaven with, and where most people have ended up... How could I be happy? Unless of course I'm in a zombie like state or every ounce of empathy has left my being.
Traveling with the speed of light through the Universe, making planets liveable, changing the Universe into a paradise. Will keep you busy for a couple of billion years
If God wanted paradise he could have just created it and cut out all of the needles suffering.Traveling with the speed of light through the Universe, making planets liveable, changing the Universe into a paradise. Will keep you busy for a couple of billion years
Seems like a long winded way of achieving his goal when you consider that he's all powerful.
Maybe he likes to do things the hard way?
It's like forgiveness, why couldn't an all powerful God just forgive without a blood sacrifice?
How could a God who had the power and the intelligence to create a universe not have the ability to get what he wants without using threats of hell?
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RLT63
Well-Known Member
| For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. |
| 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. |
| 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. |
| 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. |
Most historians and archaeologists agree that the biblical Exodus did not happen as a mass departure of millions of people. However, many scholars suggest the story may be based on a smaller core of historical memory—such as a small group of Semitic slaves or laborers leaving Egypt who later shaped the identity of early Israel.
Main Arguments Against the Literal Story...
Lack of Archaeological Evidence: Excavations in the Sinai Peninsula and Egypt have found no trace of a 40-year wandering of millions of people or a sudden, massive societal collapse in Egypt during the New Kingdom period.
Unrealistic Population Numbers: The Bible claims about 600,000 Israelite men left Egypt, implying a total population of over 2 million. This number exceeds the entire estimated population of Egypt at the time.
Egyptian Control of Canaan: During the era when the Exodus allegedly occurred, Canaan was heavily controlled by the Egyptian Empire itself, meaning the Israelites would have been fleeing from Egypt into... Egypt.
It seems to take a lot to please God, I've seen Christians here arguing about what it takes to please God.
God's message isn't very clear it seems...
How do you know that you are doing a sufficient amount of God pleasing to achieve your goals?
And as I've already said, how do you know that you've chosen the right God?
Do you think that geographical location and the times that you live in play a huge part in yours, and everyone else's choice of God?
If you'd been born in ancient Greece you'd have been worshipping Zeus, or in the Viking era in Scandinavia it would have been Wotan or Thor's hammer.
There have been countless versions of God all around the world.... Countless. I don't think that anyone can be 100% certain about their God choice.
RLT63
Well-Known Member
I studied Greek mythology when I was a kid. The school used myths to teach us how to read. I liked it so much I read books about it. I never thought about worshipping any of the Gods. They were just good stories.
Most people do stick to the religion they grew up with. My family didn't go to church though.
I started going on my own.
I have been Baptist, Church of God, Fundamentalist, Non Denominational, and Church of Christ but always Christian.
To please God keep the two greatest commands that Jesus gave us, love the Lord God and love your neighbor as yourself. All the law is contained in those two commands
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Metaphysics is primary over politics. Most or majority opinion must give way to the facts.
Einstein was once confronted with this. A journalist asked his thoughts on several dozen eminent German scientists coming out against his Theory of Relativity. His response: if it were wrong, it would only take one.
Did you even watch the vid before making this political reply?
RLT63
Well-Known Member
Their shoes didn't even wear out. No wonder they can't find anything, nothing wore out
5 “And I have led you forty years in the wilderness. Your clothes have not worn out on you, and your sandals have not worn out on your feet.
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My friend, perhaps you missed the smiley, an indication I was kidding.
To your questions, I wonder what would it matter if I answer your questions. As I can see from the discussion you would move the next series of questions. And accidentally or not you missed one of mine, see post #52. Could you comment on that one?
I can see you have done your homework, asking the hard questions. You are intelligent, you able to reason there must be a Creator, most atheists never come to that conclusion no matter the height of their intelligence. But you have not figured out the why, and why this way, as you have indicated above, why not perfect immediately, why this life of suffering first.
I don't why the Lord God did not answer your prayers. But I will pray for you might see.
And I thought that Adidas was a good brand.
Well I never!
Amazing how that amount of people left absolutely no trace... I mean, we've found all manor of artifacts around the world from primitive civilizations, but in this case nothing...
It's almost like it didn't happen.
It amazes me how you cherry picki which evidence is acceptable to you, 9 times out of 10 the evidence you put forward is from scripture.
Imagine in another 1000 years when Christianity is referred to as Christian mythology and the readers are studying it in the same way that we do with Greek or Norse mythology. To me there's not much difference.
It's rare and refreshing to see a thread set up specifically for a respectful, deep dive between an atheist and a Christian. The math proof of God is a heavy topic to start with, but it's a fascinating angle. I'll be following this to see how the conversation goes.