Daniel 7 can't support Amil's Timeline Pertaining to Rev 6:9-11, Rev 20:4

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well, I’ll say this, at least most Premils (those who do have a gap in the 70 weeks) don’t have a contradiction in how they interpret scriptures.

LOL. You are funny. Many Premils pride themselves on interpreting scripture literally "as written", but, somehow, when it comes to passages like John 5:28-29 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 they throw that interpretive method out the window.

I don’t know about all the Amills but the ones I’ve talked to absolutely reject having any gaps whatsoever, which contradicts their own view of what happens at the end of the millennium. They have to have a gap and have the rest of the dead live again after Satan’s little season.

What are you talking about? I don't know of any Amill who would deny that Satan's little season occurs first before the rest of the dead are resurrected.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Actually, that is true of both Amil and Premil. Both views have the millennium ending, then satan's little season(thus the gap between the end of the millennium and the GWTJ). Obviously, no matter how you look at it, the GWTJ can't precede Revelation 20:9 in either view. In both views those in verse 9 are alive during the millennium and alive during satan's little season. Therefore, during the millennium---and the rest of the dead lived not again, until--does not include those in verse 9. Revelation 20:5 is meaning at the beginning of the millennium, that the rest of the dead lived not again, until. Therefore, not all of the dead in their graves bodily rise at the beginning of the millennium

But then there is another group that are neither those reigning with Christ nor any of the rest of the dead. Meaning the ones in verse 8 and 9. Obviously, if they are alive and well after the millennium, they are also alive and well during the millennium. Anyone that is still alive and well does not equal the dead. Amil, IMO, can't explain these in verse 8 and 9.

Amil can explain who they are very easily. They are living unbelievers during the thousand years and are still alive during Satan's little season. Very simple. Why would you think that Amil can't explain them? I think that's because you don't understand Amil.

Where one moment they are not causing havoc with the camp of the saints one way or the other.

Where does it say that they are not causing havoc at all with the camp of the saints before that? You don't understand symbolism. You picture a number of people "as the sand of the sea" somehow literally traveling to Jerusalem to surround a literal "camp of the saints" getting ready to attack them. That's not what Revelation 20:7-9 is about. It's talking about Satan's effort during his little season to unite unbelievers around the world against the church. The church has always had opposition, but Satan's little season is a time during which it becomes escalated around the world.

Then the next moment they are. Billions of them perhaps. Who during Amil's millennium apparently were perfect angels(in comparison to what they do after the millennium), then after the millennium they become raging devils. That makes sense per Premil but does not make sense per Amil, that being the point.

You prove that you have no understanding of Amil over and over again. Why act as if you have any understanding of it? You don't. Every time you try to speak for Amil you misrepresent it. Amil does not claim at all that they are "perfect angels" during the thousand years. But, it's during Satan's little season before Christ's return that wickedness becomes unrestrained, like Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12, and things get significantly worse during that time resulting in increased wickedness, deception, apostasy and persecution.

To prove my point. Let's assume Amils' millennium ends tomorrow. Do you see any sign today or yesterday, or the months that precede it that give any indication that very soon this is going to be happening among the nations around the globe, in any sense---to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about?

If you actually understood the symbolism, there are plenty of signs of that happening with the increase in immorality in the world in recent years with the acceptance of the LGBTQ+ movement, abortion pills becoming readily accessible, many people falling away from the faith, increased hostility towards Christianity and so on.

 

[grafted branch]

LOL. Of course there are times when scripture says a certain event will happen after another, but it's not saying immediately after. But, in the case of the 70 weeks, the text indicates that a 70 week time period was determined for certain things to happen. That means those things had to be fulfilled during that continuous time period and not have some of it fulfilled long after that time period is over. Are you unwilling to address what I'm actually saying?

You’re the first Amill I’ve met that doesn’t have an issue with placing time gaps in the Bible.

What are you talking about? I don't know of any Amill who would deny that Satan's little season occurs first before the rest of the dead are resurrected.

Right, I don’t know of any Amill that would do that either. But that’s not really the issue, the issue is if there were no gaps then the rest of the dead would live again after the millennium and prior to Satan’s little season. That would require the rest of the dead to be spiritually dead, as in Luke 9:60 where the dead bury their dead. The spiritually dead bury the physical dead.
Of course no Amill I know wants to allow an interpretation like that because it goes against their narrative, but then again I don’t know of any Amill except you that agrees with placing time gaps in the Bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You’re the first Amill I’ve met that doesn’t have an issue with placing time gaps in the Bible.

Nonsense. What Amill do you know who denies that Satan's little season occurs when the thousand years ends and before the rest of the dead are resurrected? I know the other Amills on those forum do not deny that and you've met them. So, I don't think you have any idea of what you're talking about.

Right, I don’t know of any Amill that would do that either. But that’s not really the issue, the issue is if there were no gaps then the rest of the dead would live again after the millennium and prior to Satan’s little season.

It does not say they would be resurrected immediately after the thousand years ends, so that there is a gap of a little season in between means nothing.

That would require the rest of the dead to be spiritually dead, as in Luke 9:60 where the dead bury their dead. The spiritually dead bury the physical dead.

What are you talking about? They are physically/bodily dead and they will be bodily resurrected and then judged, just as Jesus said will happen to the dead in John 5:28-29.

Of course no Amill I know wants to allow an interpretation like that because it goes against their narrative, but then again I don’t know of any Amill except you that agrees with placing time gaps in the Bible.

This is utter nonsense. What are you even talking about? Are you saying I'm adding time gaps in the Bible that aren't there? If so, that's clearly false. I don't know of any Amill who denies that Satan's little season will occur when the thousand years ends and before the resurrection of the dead occurs. Yet, you're acting like I'm the only one. Hardly.

 

[grafted branch]

It does not say they would be resurrected immediately after the thousand years ends, so that there is a gap of a little season in between means nothing.

It does mean something, because here’s what you said in another post …

You were asked to show where any prophecy involving a certain amount of time had any gaps in it and you failed to do that. You know there is no such thing. Your arguments are weak.

Have you changed your mind? WPM agreed with you on that post, did he change his mind also?

 

[Davidpt]

You’re the first Amill I’ve met that doesn’t have an issue with placing time gaps in the Bible.


Right, I don’t know of any Amill that would do that either. But that’s not really the issue, the issue is if there were no gaps then the rest of the dead would live again after the millennium and prior to Satan’s little season. That would require the rest of the dead to be spiritually dead, as in Luke 9:60 where the dead bury their dead. The spiritually dead bury the physical dead.
Of course no Amill I know wants to allow an interpretation like that because it goes against their narrative, but then again I don’t know of any Amill except you that agrees with placing time gaps in the Bible.

Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


After the thousand years expire would be the beginning of satan's little season. If we assume the dead meant are meaning those in verse 8, in what way were they dead during the millennium then alive after the millennium? If we say they were spiritually dead during the millennium, and that they are spiritually alive after the millennium, that makes sense of the following exactly how?---And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city. Only someone spiritually alive can do that? No one spiritually dead can do that?

Therefore, the only logical place I see the rest of the dead fitting is Rev 20:11-15. What about verse 8 and 9 then? They are not even dead during the millennium. How can the millennium or even satan's little season be including them? Yet they become dead at the end of satan's little season. Except verse 5 is meaning at the beginning of the millennium, thus Daniel 7:22/Revelation 20:4---and I saw thrones, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most high--the saints then live and reign with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead do not live again until after the thousand years expire(this is parenthetical in this context). This is the first resurrection. And the time came that the saints possess the kingdom.

How can saints possess the kingdom 2k years ago when Daniel 7:27 indicates they don't do that until verse 26 is fulfilled first? How could verse 26 which involves verses 9-11 possibly have been before the millennium allegedly began 2K years ago(according to Amil), when verses 9-11 fit the end of this age and the 2nd coming? No standard Amil, not to be confused with a hybrid Amil, is arguing that verse 9-11 fit before the beginning of their proposed beginning of the millennium 2k years ago. But that is beside the point. The timeline in Daniel 7 demands that verses 9-11. 26 fit when the millennium begins, not after it had already finished earlier in time, as some Amils would have us believe

It is a contradiction in Daniel 7 to place verses 9-11, 26 after the millennium rather than in the beginning of it. After all, verse 22 is the interpretation of verses 9-11.

 

[grafted branch]

If we say they were spiritually dead during the millennium, and that they are spiritually alive after the millennium, that makes sense of the following exactly how?---And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city. Only someone spiritually alive can do that? No one spiritually dead can do that?

I think the only group that could be spiritually dead then live again is Israel who is blind in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. I don’t think non-blinded Israel would be the ones surrounding the camp, they would be the ones inside the camp.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It does mean something, because here’s what you said in another post …


Have you changed your mind? WPM agreed with you on that post, did he change his mind also?

You can't be serious. In relation to the thousand years, it is just that. The thousand years. LIteral or not, it's confined to the thousand years. There are no gaps in the thousand years. When the thousand years ends then Satan's little season follows that and then the resurrection and judgment. I've never said otherwise, so what exactly are you saying I'm changing my mind about?

 

[grafted branch]

You can't be serious. In relation to the thousand years, it is just that. The thousand years. LIteral or not, it's confined to the thousand years. There are no gaps in the thousand years. When the thousand years ends then Satan's little season follows that and then the resurrection and judgment. I've never said otherwise, so what exactly are you saying I'm changing my mind about?

In a previous post you said there is no such thing in regards to a prophecy involving time having a gap. Now you said there is a gap and it means nothing.

If you think in your mind that you are being consistent, that’s fine, go on believing what you want.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In a previous post you said there is no such thing in regards to a prophecy involving time having a gap.

You obviously didn't understand what I meant. In relation to the 70 weeks there is no gap within the 70 weeks. In relation to the thousand years there is no gap within the thousand years. In relation to the 42 months, there is no gap within the 42 months. And so on. Do you understand what I'm saying now?

Now you said there is a gap and it means nothing.

I'm saying there is a gap of a little season between the end of the thousand years and the resurrection of the dead. So what? That doesn't mean I'm saying there is a gap within the thousand years.

If you think in your mind that you are being consistent, that’s fine, go on believing what you want.

I know that I'm consistent and I know that you have no clue as to what I meant when I said there are no gaps in prophecies involving certain time periods. You have a tremendous amount of trouble understanding what others are saying for whatever reason.

 

[Truth7t7]

What are you talking about? I don't know of any Amill who would deny that Satan's little season occurs first before the rest of the dead are resurrected.

It's my opinion that Satan's little season is in gathering the nation's to Israel for the final fire ball from heaven, Rev 16:12-17, Rev 20:7-9

 

[grafted branch]

You obviously didn't understand what I meant. In relation to the 70 weeks there is no gap within the 70 weeks. In relation to the thousand years there is no gap within the thousand years. In relation to the 42 months, there is no gap within the 42 months. And

Sure, I see that. You have the thousand years as a non-literal thousand years. If it was literal then you’d have to have a gap.

If a Premill claims the 70 weeks are non-literal then you’d be ok with gaps, right?