Totally agree, amen.
And thank you sister, for your interesting and helpful posts on this subject.
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And thank you sister, for your interesting and helpful posts on this subject.
Hazelelponi
Well-Known Member
Hello once again!
I don't want to make any assumptions about your daughter, but I do know myself and I believe that she has missed something very essential to her salvation.
For some reason I see her as looking, searching for something in her faith and practice that she is missing..
Also, for a woman who desires godliness in herself but feels empty, she searches outside herself. Faith, true faith, is attractive to women such as this. Very attractive.
As the Bible teaches us, the enemy tries to pose as light, and the practice of what looks like faith to a person searching for something they are missing is downright seductive.
Therefore, if this was my daughter I would go back to the beginning of Faith with her, teach her Christianity again.
Cultural Christianity is hollow and doesn't know God, and I would worry even if she had previously been baptized that she may have fallen into the trap of thinking she's a saved Christian when she's really not.
You can know the words to something without having a true understanding of the full implications.. so I would want to go through everything with her again until I was sure there was real understanding.
I am no preacher, just an average person, but there are wonderful men of God that are called to preach. These videos are an investment in time, but I think you're daughter is worth the investment in time.
Since cultural Christianity is so pervasive and with the concerns I would have if I was you, these are some videos I would revisit myself.
^^^ here I would pay close attention to indictment #4, but the entire teaching is quite good and it's a teaching I think every western Christian should hear (I'm not judging, just hoping to bring edification)
Another solid teaching, one that is an absolute do not miss, (and if there's only one of these videos I post that you watch, then let it be this one.) Is this:
^^^^ In the face of Islam this is the only counter you need. But you AND your daughter need to know it by heart. I'm serious here. The Bible is true, and you need to know that clearly, and intellectually.
If you cannot watch videos here is an outside link to transcript of sermon. this teaching is too important for you and your daughter to know. This is the counter to Islam, this is your answer.
Also, Dr Voddie Baucham (the pastor from the above video) has some very good teachings on Christian marriage and submission and such, all very good.
^^^ but you might like to look up some more on your own that he's preached. Grace Family Baptist Church is who posts his actual sermons on YouTube and there's many marriage sermons you might like.
I would also like to share this with you:
^^^ This is just a few minutes of time but this, it's this.... This!
Know the presence of Christ... Know Him.. make sure you're daughter goes to this place with God. This is for EVERY child of God!
A brother had requested that I share some of the Qur'an for your daughter to see, but with some prayer of my own on the matter I have decided against because we don't need it, what your daughter needs is to honestly and truly know the faith by which she identifies herself.
This is important because Jesus said to the Pharisees:
"Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains" John 9:41
This is my last post in closing. I will certainly be praying for you and your daughter, and if there's anything you would like elaboration on, if there's anything you need at all feel free to ask. I may have missed something you would like expounded or explained, just tag me, respond to me in this thread.. I'll answer.
God bless you.
I don't want to make any assumptions about your daughter, but I do know myself and I believe that she has missed something very essential to her salvation.
For some reason I see her as looking, searching for something in her faith and practice that she is missing..
Also, for a woman who desires godliness in herself but feels empty, she searches outside herself. Faith, true faith, is attractive to women such as this. Very attractive.
As the Bible teaches us, the enemy tries to pose as light, and the practice of what looks like faith to a person searching for something they are missing is downright seductive.
Therefore, if this was my daughter I would go back to the beginning of Faith with her, teach her Christianity again.
Cultural Christianity is hollow and doesn't know God, and I would worry even if she had previously been baptized that she may have fallen into the trap of thinking she's a saved Christian when she's really not.
You can know the words to something without having a true understanding of the full implications.. so I would want to go through everything with her again until I was sure there was real understanding.
I am no preacher, just an average person, but there are wonderful men of God that are called to preach. These videos are an investment in time, but I think you're daughter is worth the investment in time.
Since cultural Christianity is so pervasive and with the concerns I would have if I was you, these are some videos I would revisit myself.
^^^ here I would pay close attention to indictment #4, but the entire teaching is quite good and it's a teaching I think every western Christian should hear (I'm not judging, just hoping to bring edification)
Another solid teaching, one that is an absolute do not miss, (and if there's only one of these videos I post that you watch, then let it be this one.) Is this:
^^^^ In the face of Islam this is the only counter you need. But you AND your daughter need to know it by heart. I'm serious here. The Bible is true, and you need to know that clearly, and intellectually.
If you cannot watch videos here is an outside link to transcript of sermon. this teaching is too important for you and your daughter to know. This is the counter to Islam, this is your answer.
Also, Dr Voddie Baucham (the pastor from the above video) has some very good teachings on Christian marriage and submission and such, all very good.
^^^ but you might like to look up some more on your own that he's preached. Grace Family Baptist Church is who posts his actual sermons on YouTube and there's many marriage sermons you might like.
I would also like to share this with you:
^^^ This is just a few minutes of time but this, it's this.... This!
Know the presence of Christ... Know Him.. make sure you're daughter goes to this place with God. This is for EVERY child of God!
A brother had requested that I share some of the Qur'an for your daughter to see, but with some prayer of my own on the matter I have decided against because we don't need it, what your daughter needs is to honestly and truly know the faith by which she identifies herself.
This is important because Jesus said to the Pharisees:
"Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains" John 9:41
This is my last post in closing. I will certainly be praying for you and your daughter, and if there's anything you would like elaboration on, if there's anything you need at all feel free to ask. I may have missed something you would like expounded or explained, just tag me, respond to me in this thread.. I'll answer.
God bless you.
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There is a transition which occurs in Westernized culture life that doesn't necessarily happen in other cultures....and that's the separation of heritage and a focus on legacies.
People want to forget their past and where they came from as if it was something bad...
And sometimes it is/was.
Parents abuse their children way beyond the norm. Some call it "discipline" but in truth it's abuse and micromanaging every aspect of a child's life. You can't re-live your youth through your kids.
And adult children have a mind of their own. They have their own unique perspective on things. (For good, bad, or indifferent)
The ONLY way a parent can have influence on an adult child is if either they have destroyed the child's spirit by gaslighting them or are their child's older friend that understands them.
Some parents have no clue as to what their child's life is all about. But then that usually means they really have issues with empathy or having and making friends in general. The parents may really love them and want the best for their children but for whatever reason the child rejects the parents and their lifestyle. (Discovering that would definitely be of huge value)
There's a lot of REAL statistics that shed insight and light about cross ethnicity marriages and cross religious marriages. they might help.
But suffice it to say that at this point the parents have failed their child in some fashion. Not because of any reason other than their daughter is marrying outside of her cultural norms. You can't put the manure back in the horse...but you can reason with the kids if you can keep your emotions in line.
That may be your opinion. I was just as concerned about the father's daughter as the father was. My suggestion was
that the father prayed to ask God to include his daughter and her partner among those whom our Father God will draw to himself.
I also expressed concerns for the member as well and asked that God would care for his spiritual wellbeing as well.
Your understanding of giving this situation over to God in what I had posted as not caring for the daughter shows that you have misread what I had posted.
The request was: -
In this request for advice, my suggestion that the father ask for the salvation of the daughter as well as for her Muslim Partner is very valid and is the starting point for giving the problem over to God. Within my suggest for the father to ask that God include His daughter and her Muslim partner among those who He is drawing to Himself, the Father is starting a conversation with God about his concerns for his daughter.
Within Loco's posted question, there was not enough information for me to provide any other advice that would not cause him to begin acting God like.
Hopefully Logo will have already started his own two-way conversation with God and that out of this conversation God will be prompting Logo as what can be constructively done by him in the situation.
Sure, I could have put my two-cents worth into what could be done, just like what you have done, but I needed to pray more about what was being asked before I jumped in boots and all and providing how this situation might be resolved.
I was thankful that God had provided someone with experience in inter religious interactions between a Muslim and other religions, which in this case is Christianity.
@Hazelelponi has provided @Logo with Good background information within the situation that Logo's daughter may find herself in.
I also like her advice where she made this statement: -
Perhaps Hazel has provided and explanation as to why my spirit was being troubled by the posts that I was reading.
Hopefully, you may be able to see that my troubled spirit was telling me that members where acting in the best interests for Logo and for themselves.
Perhaps you may like to prayerfully consider why you have reacted to my post that you have objected too. Is your post more about you than me.
Shalom
Brother, the only problem I have is that you criticized others for trying when your own advice fell short. Otherwise I wouldn't have even responded to your post. Respectfully, I believe you need to prayerfully examine yourself and consider why you posted as you did.
It isn't acting like God to do the common sense and responsible thing after praying about a situation. Unless He checks and leads otherwise. Is it being presumptuous to feed and house and teach/guide your children? That is a responsibility God has given to parents as He provides the means. If there is a probable kidnapper or thief at your door, do you just pray for his salvation or should you not also lock your door with the lock that God graciously provided? Unless the Lord leads otherwise. From what we know about Islam and how it too often goes when a western woman marries a muslim man, everyone's concerns here for Logo's daughter are not without validity.
People too often equate trusting/resting in the Lord with apathy.....we're not called to apathy, we are His BODY on earth. If your donkey falls into a pit on the sabbath (day of RESTING in the Lord!) shouldn't you insert yourself in there and try to help it out?...as the Lord helps you do that....or should you do nothing but pray for the poor donkey and otherwise abandon it to its fate? This father needs to kindly get the message across to that young man that he is on the job and watching the situation and is not just abandoning his un-married daughter to the wolves. Would also be good to sit down with his daughter and tell her what he knows about Islam. And show her what our sister Hazel has testified to here. This is all within his right and responsibility as a father, and I believe it is good for the Body of Christ to affirm and encourage him in it. Nobody but God knows this muslim's heart and the end from the beginning, but being honest and acting in this way does no harm to either.
The church is all too often unwise in how it deals with certain situations. Usually by not dealing with them at all. I speak as one who has been guilty of this. Jesus was right when He said the children of the world are often wiser than the people of God. That's because the people of God have an enemy who likes to hamstring the church.
So, Lizbeth, my concern for the spiritual wellbeing of the father, his daughter and her partner falls short in your eyes. So be it.
However, I am not going to create a log jam in this thread and argue whether we should or should not use our common sense and as you suggest unless the spirit checks us and leads otherwise. However, unless the Lord is leading us to use good old fashion common sense, we are sinning and acting God like. You have said something similar when you wrote this.
It is common practice that people do something to fix a problem that they perceive is happening. Often, the doing something is the wrong solution, but Christians cover their actions and prayers with, "Let it be your will in this situation and not mine, Lord."
Being politically correct or woke in a situation is not good. Sometimes it is necessary to inform others that they are actually sinning, even if they claim to be "Christian," with their suggested solutions.
What you are telling us all is that we need to get the daughter out of her relationship with her "Muslim" partner without caring for their collective spiritual wellbeing and salvation.
Have it your way Lizbeth. I have said my piece.
I have given my advice for the father to hand his daughter and her partner over to God to be included among those whom he will draw to Himself, for me, is the best initial advice to give. Now the request for advice in the OP did not provide enough information on which to provide any advice upon but suggesting that the father begin praying to God is a good starting point. Hopeful while he is praying to God, God will begin to interact with the father and lead him in the way he should go forward without me muddying up the waters so to speak with my ill-informed suggestions.
Your ranting against me suggests that you have some issues in how we should help others.
Goodbye Lizbeth, may you come to understand the heart of the father as you press further into His loving Embrace.
No that isn't what I'm saying at all.
We aren't seeing eye to eye, but yes let's leave it at that. Good day to you.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Yes! You should be. How they treat the woman when dating is vastly different than when married to them.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
2 Cor. 6:14 comes to mind.
The figurative language of two oxen when unequally yoked, struggle to keep the same path and go off in two different directions trying to drag the other along. They just can't seem to unite and agree.
In the beginning, romance, new love, affections and their checklist of views, ideas and goals seem harmonious and they'll accommodate and sacrifice what isn't. But in the beginning they don't really know eachother. Their idiosyncrasies and true self are suppressed - for a while. It is as they say, love is blind ... until it isn't. Even Dr. Laura used to say it takes a good 2 years to get to know someone. You can only suppress and hide who you are for so long, it will come out. And so anger, selfishness or maybe a strong passion for Islam/Muhammad that was set aside, is now dominant. What happens is you begin to drop your pretenses, tolerance, and let it all hang out.
Pray for your daughters discernment and God's guidance. The religions are not compatible _ they will eventually clash and he will insist he has the right one. Your families will clash. Sure you can all try to be cordial, tolerant, respectful on the outside... but a battle inside will erupt and continue.
My daughter married an atheist. There is something missing, a big hole if you ask me. They have problems but they can't see beneath the surface of them. We wrestle not with flesh and blood but with dark spiritual forces. I suppose she thought she could "missionary marry". Oh well, they love eachother ... going on eight years with a 3 year old. We'll see.
I once had pre-marital counseling and classes which are required in some churches. It taught me lots.
One hypothetical scenario was told of newlyweds entering their new home went like this:
He carried his wife over the threshold. They smiled and kissed. He said, I'll go get my bags and be right back. She says, "What bags?" He said, "You know, everyone has bags ... just a minute ... Okay, now this first bag is my bag of rules and demands. This other bag is filled with my expectations. These other bags are not as crucial but are my desires, wants, needs ..." His wife looked at him and was very nervous and concerned about what exactly were his expectations, rules, demands, etc. "You never said anything about this baggage... all we agreed to were the vows we made and about some future goals!"
Well, one does not want to discover this after they get married. Open up all your baggage beforehand!
Tell them to PUT EVERYTHING ON THE TABLE. MAKE SURE TO OPEN UP ABOUT ALL THE IMPORTANT THINGS - religion is certainly on top of the list!
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Debp
Well-Known Member
Me too. And especially it would be good to know if she is a born again Christian.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Debp
Well-Known Member
A born again Christian should not date outside of our faith...but sometimes that does happen, the flesh being led astray. That's why you sometimes find Christians lamenting their marriages with unbelievers.
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