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Dear Abdallah

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Tyrel, Oct 3, 2007.

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  1. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Whilst a small but watchful band maintains a proper vigilance toward Rome, it appears that a more determined enemy has been ignored...Islam. The reason for this may be that Rome presents a false Christianity, but Islam presents a false religion. There is a sense in which we may 'ignore' Islam because, unlike Roman Catholicism, it does not pretend to be a follower of Jesus Christ. Quite the opposite! Thus Islam seems to be outside the 'brief' of many Believers today.Let the warning bells be sounded, however! We need the Rome-watchers to sound the alarm...but we also need Islam-watchers, to waken the city of God and to warn them against a threat of immense proportion. Islam is not a threat to the Truth of God because it does not claim to be based on the Christian Bible. Yet, it is a threat to Christians themselves...to their physical freedom, to their livelihood, to their stated beliefs, to their public worship, to their very lives! A threat different to Catholicism as it now stands, but a very real one. Catholicism is still a threat to all these things - let us not be quietened to that fact.But so is Islam. Islam (like hardened Catholicism) bluntly, through its modern statements and its own Koran, say that Muslims who kill Christians are helping Allah! No matter what Muslims say in the UK and in other non-Muslim-ruled countries, Islam says that non-Muslims are 'infidels' to be slaughtered in the name of Allah. That is why Mohammed and his Arab generals put thousands to the sword in his lifetime...those who refused to become Muslims were killed. That is how Islam spread so far in the East. Nowadays it is spread not so much by personal belief but by political means via violence and laws. Iran, a hard-line Islamic country, leads the way and is a model for many actual or intending Islamic-ruled countries.In the Sudan, thousands of Christians were crucified upside-down early in 1993. Did you know that? It is the avowed intention of African Muslim countries to eradicate Christians. Already Christian nationals are being maimed, killed and burned out of their homes. Muslims are being placed in positions of power. In Kartoum, thousands of Christians were being held with little food and water, simply because they are Christians. Yes - in 1993!There is very little difference between Roman Catholic intentions for Christians and Muslim intentions - both hate true belief in an Almighty God, with equal contempt. Both are willing to remain quiet amongst Christians when they are not in the majority. And both are simply waiting for the right time to strike. When Roman Catholicism gains the ascendancy in a country, it begins a period of economic and political rot. The same happens where Islam takes over....but let us not think that this is necessarily the wish of the nationals who live there. They will suffer along with Christians - perhaps not so severely, but they will suffer nevertheless, through starvation, lack of opportunities, and bad economic conditions.Let it be said again - it is the basic teaching of the Koran to kill all who will not bow to Allah and his followers, the Muslims. It is the avowed intention of strict Muslim leaders to force Islam on everybody in the world. African countries are falling like nine-pins to this pressure. Can you imagine what it would be like if all of Africa came under the iron fist of supreme Islamic rulers? If you think Hussein or Gadafi are bad - what do you think the giant Africa would be like under an unified strictly-Islamic rulership, whose pattern is Iran?Many try to say that Iran-type Islam is an extreme form and that Muslims living in the West will not tolerate its ravings. After all, Muslims in the West have a much easier life and only want to live in harmony with Christians and others. NOT SO! As with Catholicism, Islam only tolerates what it must, when it must. Given the chance it will flex its muscles, as it has in Iran, Iraq and various African states. This is because IT MUST DO SO to remain true to its founder and to the Koran. Thus violence and repression are part and parcel of the basic religious beliefs of Islam. Those who we call 'extreme' are actually only being true to their beliefs, whilst those who we say are moderate and want only peace, are actually not complying with their own stated beliefs. That even proselytes in the West will fall in line with what we call 'extremism' is seen in the way the pop-singer known as 'Cat Stevens' (now a Muslim), a British subject, upholds the death threat made by Iran against the writer Salman Rushdie (what he wrote is not the issue here). It is not a good sign and points the way to the truth of the situation - Islam will stop at nothing to impose its will on whoever is in its path. When that happens, even UK-resident Muslims will obey the basic teachings of their religion. Many will no doubt do so against their better judgements - but they will nevertheless obey, for the sake of their own lives as much as for a sign of their obedience.In Britain, there is already a mock Muslim 'parliament' in existence. Typically, the elected British parliament treats it with amused tolerance. But, in reality, the Muslim leaders who created such a parliament are in deadly earnest. They want Muslim laws (and all that sadly goes with them) and want their own Muslim government. Let us be plain about it - IT IS TREASON! Like Guy Fawkes, these Islamic leaders want only the downfall of the British government, the British way of life, its semblance of democracy and freedom and the Christian faith. For its treason alone, this mock government should be immediately declared unconstitutional and treasonous. Islamic countries think nothing of killing their own people if they dare to oppose their government or beliefs. Yet we allow Islamic penetration of our entire British system of life! The West has not dared to stand up fully to thug-leaders of Islamic countries who kill and cause fear amongst millions...just as Hitler was ignored until his threats touched our own shores! Must we wait for a similar threat close to home? Islam is already rumbling on our own doorsteps. Muslim leaders have the audacity to 'demand' Islamic laws and special treatment; they already are gaining concessions for Islamic schools; and all in Britain! How far will we allow it to go? Until it is too late? Until our own government waves a bit of paper and says, moments before disaster, that "The Muslims only want peace"?
     
  2. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    I have already refuted everything written above.Roman Catholics are Christian, most assuredly. Your attacks on them are unwarranted. Furthermore, your attacks on Islam are not "false" but do exactly what I have been suggesting with good reason that we not do.I will not repeat myself ceaselessly kriss.Please first consider what I have said, and then reply TO what I have said. Let's stop the circle here and now, and move forwards. My points have been repeated again and again. That article's main point is the same. The question here, isn't what Islam teaches. The question here is how do we, as Christians, respond inwardly and outwardly? My answer; With Love, and with Love.Please read over what I have previously written. I know you like to post articles. That's fine. Can we at least stay on topic though? Can they at least have something to do with responding to me?in Hope still, Tyrel.
     
  3. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    Perhaps I should make clear what the Law is, since you seemed to think that what you cited from the text concerning food sacrificed to Idols was valid. I want to make clear however, that I don't want this to detract from the message of this thread. I want us to push forward. However, for the purposes of making an issue which here has arisen, clear, I have posted this here. Perhaps if you wish to contest this at length, as I hope you will not for surely this can be recognized, then I will start another thread for that.Here is a post I made in another Forum a while back. I made my points pretty clear. The question was about lying, and if one could lie in such instances as the holocaust.To explain basically; The Law is not equivalent to the laws. The Eternal Law determines laws according to context. So, there are absolutely NO absolute laws. Hear me out here; Think about the laws. Is it always wrong to Kill? Is it always wrong to be drunk? It is always wrong to have drugs of any kind? Is it always wrong to dress certain ways? Is it always wrong for men to have long hair? Is it always wrong for a man to cut his sideburns?You'll find that context need be added for anything to be determined right or wrong.----------------------------------------------- Remember the LAW is separate from the Laws. Laws, both legally and theologically, attempt to, given a context, mediate the Law of God to us. Thus, as is observed in this case, the written Law, which is meant to communicate wisdom to us through understanding it given it's context, is adhered to by not observing the written code, but by observing it's application.So while it might seem to us ridiculous to have laws about wearing multi-fabric clothing, God was right in prescribing that law, given the Context in which it is found.The Written is not supposed to determine the absolute, the absolute is supposed to determine the written.Similarly, Paul himself, a zealous Pharisee {trained under Gamaliel no less}, also reasons thus:"Everything is Permissible, not everything is beneficial" ~1 Corinthians 10:23 [1 Corinthians 6:12]And againBut not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. - Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. ~1 Corinthians 8:7-11Now it is clearly the written Law not to eat meat sacrificed to Idols. In fact, Israel is not even to take part in any such communions among the pagans. So, is it still the Law? YES! It is absolutely the Law; given that context. Here's were the wisdom that we are to grow in comes in handy [Psalm 119:98, 1 Corinthians 2:6].Why was Paul able to eat of the meat? He says it's because of the knowledge he has. Due to the wisdom he received he was fully able to both follow the Law in it's proper application and not sear his conscience by doing such a thing. For many people, they only understand the freedom we have on an intellectual level and have trouble with it on the spiritual level. We are by no means free to break the Law, but the 'laws' do not apply to us unless we find ourselves in proper context.Why can't we lie? Because it is a dishonourable thing to lie. It is not part of living a Holy life. We are to walk towards the goal with full integrity. Remember that the Torah is not a book of "do nots", it's a book of "How to Live". Remember how the Torah, the law, was written? First, it mediates the LAW of God. It does this, however, given the weakness of the people. Thus, to get people to obey the LAW, laws had to be written. This is why Jesus says that Moses only allowed divorce because of weakness [Mark 10:4-5].Here's what Justin Martyr, in a dialogue with a Jew named Trypho, says:"I said also, that those who [in past times before the new covenant] regulated their lives by the Law of Moses would in like manner be saved. For what in the Law of Moses is naturally good, and pious, and righteous, and has been prescribed to be done by those who obey it; and what was appointed to be performed by reason of the hardness of the people's hearts; was similarly recorded, and done also by those who were under the Law.~Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter 45So, the laws were recorded even based on people. The Law, however, is not based on man. Remember that Jesus also said that the sabbath was made for man rather than the other way around.I realize I might seem to be gearing 'off topic' as your topic was lying in particular, but to understand it we must first properly understand the Law. The Law is unchanging. The laws are what change.Jeremiah 31:31-34 tells us that the Law is no longer to be observed the way it was being observed previously. It declares prophetically that the Covenant God had previously made was about to become something different. Something new. It says that the Law is to be placed in our minds, and on our hearts. Logical question; where had it been previously? I'm sure you're aware that Jews practiced, and to this day some devout still do, prayer with Torah written in minuscule boxes. These boxes were strapped to their hands and to their heads. To their heads symbolizing that they are to know all the Law [Psalm 40:8; Psalm 119:97]. To their hands symbolizing that they are to observe and 'do' all the Law. {yeah, that's right, hands and head, just like revelation.. but that's another debate for another time}.We are told that God, in his new covenant, of which the messenger was Messiah [Malachi 3:1], was to take the Law and place it in our minds and on our hearts. IN our minds because we are to be led, with the spirit guiding us into all wisdom, into a sound knowledge of the Law itself along with discernment to determine it's application. On our hearts because we are to observe it always with Love and utmost devotion.So, what has changed? The Law? Not in the least. It's application? YES! Remember that while we refer to the Law as the written code, the written code is, in reality, a trustworthy guide leading us to the Law, and a faithful witness that we can always observe and fall back on.The point is, the rules aren't being bent, they aren't being broken, they are being understood. I think you should read through Psalm 119. You'll find that the Law is regarded as the Truth instead of the laws regarded as true. The commandments are meditated on to instruct us in the Law.Your comment on the other hand isn't justified. Lying to please man? The question is, who do you serve? Are you trying to please man or are you trying to please God? I'll admit that there is a right way to tell somebody something and a perhaps not so great way. I do not believe that opting out by agreeing to lie is righteous. We are lights in this world; if we are known to be liars then what do the weaker do? They will fall away on account of you. Is it always wrong to 'lie' by our human definition of what it is to lie? I don't think that's the question. The question is rather; does your heart, in observing the Law, hate and despise dishonesty such that it abhors false witness?I hate and abhor falsehood, but Your law do I love. ~ Psalm 119:163~Shalom Elechem----------I know that should be controversial, but consider it.
     
  4. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I have told you but you wont listen you choose to be blind I will never stop either I will never endorse a religion that hates my God. You dont seem to understand if you convert a Muslim in most countries it is a death sentence to them do you get that. They die if they convert just because its not that way in your safe little town wake up Many Christians just don't get it. Its not about non-Christians. We are to share the Good news of our Lord and savior with non Christians. We are to love our enemies, and it breaks the Christians heart to see the evil of this religion.You think as a mother it does not break my heart to see Babes given guns and taught to hate??? But I am taught to Love God above ALL. Even above my enemies.Where does it say we are to love Gods enemys????We are not to support a religion that wants all Gods people dead. Did God send Joshua into Jericho to Preach??? Do you not get Islam is not ignorant of Christ they know the bible they know Christ they CHOOSE to pervert and to what is contrary to Gods Words. To purposely make these choices God tells us the following 2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?You are disobeying God to do otherwiseAnswer their questions, When they do not want to hear we are told to dust of our feet and leave not to stay around and accept their ways. Not to tell them its Ok. You can call Jesus Mohammed's sidekick you say your moon god is the same as our God. We should just live side by side and love each others ways, If you think this you do not know Gods Words.This religion doesn't want to be left alone to worship how they see fit, like Buddhist's or other religions They are actively trying to destroy Christianity and Judaism in full awareness of Gods Word I am not preaching hate I'm am preaching awareness to an evil that wants to wipe out our very existence. In full knowlege and defiance of God. I ask are you a warrior for God as the patriarchs were?
     
  5. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (kriss;19455)
    I have told you but you wont listen you choose to be blind I will never stop either I will never endorse a religion that hates my God. You dont seem to understand if you convert a Muslim in most countries it is a death sentence to them do you get that. They die if they convert just because its not that way in your safe little town wake up Many Christians just don't get it. Its not about non-Christians. We are to share the Good news of our Lord and savior with non Christians. We are to love our enemies, and it breaks the Christians heart to see the evil of this religion.You think as a mother it does not break my heart to see Babes given guns and taught to hate??? But I am taught to Love God above ALL. Even above my enemies.Where does it say we are to love Gods enemys????We are not to support a religion that wants all Gods people dead. Did God send Joshua into Jericho to Preach??? Do you not get Islam is not ignorant of Christ they know the bible they know Christ they CHOOSE to pervert and to what is contrary to Gods Words. To purposely make these choices God tells us the following 2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?You are disobeying God to do otherwiseAnswer their questions, When they do not want to hear we are told to dust of our feet and leave not to stay around and accept their ways. Not to tell them its Ok. You can call Jesus Mohammed's sidekick you say your moon god is the same as our God. We should just live side by side and love each others ways, If you think this you do not know Gods Words.This religion doesn't want to be left alone to worship how they see fit, like Buddhist's or other religions They are actively trying to destroy Christianity and Judaism in full awareness of Gods Word I am not preaching hate I'm am preaching awareness to an evil that wants to wipe out our very existence. In full knowlege and defiance of God. I ask are you a warrior for God as the patriarchs were?
    Your posts seem less and less formalized, and they come off as senseless rantings. You aren't finishing your sentences. You aren't bringing up any new points I haven't already answered. I have answered everything in there Kriss. In fact, I'm pretty convinced that most of this is a copy+paste of a previous post in some.. other obscure now locked thread. [​IMG]I answered you there.
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    You are right because it makes my point Im not intesested in debating you I was trying to get you to see reason which is obviously a waste of time I posted this because I have nothing else to say I will follow God 2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?you do as you please.
     
  7. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Kriss, let me help you out here.Dear BTTruth is always OLD. Lies are are always NEW.OLD thngs is very GOOD. NEW things is likely to be very BAD.What I'm trying to say isJeremiah 6:16 - Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  8. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (kriss;19458)
    You are right because it makes my point Im not intesested in debating you I was trying to get you to see reason which is obviously a waste of time I posted this because I have nothing else to say I will follow God 2 Corinthians 6:14Do Not Be Yoked With Unbelievers Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?you do as you please.
    [​IMG]Right..Excuse me, but perhaps you need some time to think over what you are saying. You claim that you don't want to reason with me, because I'm not listening to you, while you post the points which I have already refuted. You say you post the points which I have refuted, and disregard me, because I will not hear the reason in your arguments.That's incredible [​IMG]
     
  9. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (thesuperjag;19464)
    Kriss, let me help you out here.Dear BTTruth is always OLD. Lies are are always NEW.OLD thngs is very GOOD. NEW things is likely to be very BAD.What I'm trying to say isJeremiah 6:16 - Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
    Dear Superjag, I wonder what would have happened if the pharisees had that attitude.. oh wait... [​IMG]However, what I am pointing you to is not something new at all. I am suggesting we go straight back to the Gospel for the answer on this one." "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, "~ Matthew 5:43-44This is exactly what I've been saying. Please read the article and consider it. Please read over the Dear Abdallah letters. Is this not much more effective? Is this not much more right? Is this not much more Loving? Isn't Loving them the way God wants it?I am simply pointing to the Gospel through it all.
     
  10. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Yea, well, to be quite honest, That article is a pack of lies, it's amazing that men will always create NEW things to replace the OLD things which is Truth.Evil is SAD, Evil is becoming easily detected when it comes to Islam...It is becoming laughable that you can't see it.Another thing, you forgot the words... bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, which is sad, a corrupted translation you used.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  11. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;19469)
    Dear Superjag, I wonder what would have happened if the pharisees had that attitude.. oh wait... [​IMG]However, what I am pointing you to is not something new at all. I am suggesting we go straight back to the Gospel for the answer on this one." "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, "~ Matthew 5:43-44This is exactly what I've been saying. Please read the article and consider it. Please read over the Dear Abdallah letters. Is this not much more effective? Is this not much more right? Is this not much more Loving? Isn't Loving them the way God wants it?I am simply pointing to the Gospel through it all.
    What is this pharisees thing you keep bringing up it was the sadducees and the pharisees that hated Christ and had him crucified you keep talking of them like they were great they were kennites that infilerated the Jewish priest hood and wanted to keep the money tables in the temples they hated Christ for challenging their rituals and the lively hood. They are the Jewish Priest that convinced the people to crucify Christ.Matt. 16:6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
     
  12. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (thesuperjag;19470)
    Yea, well, to be quite honest, That article is a pack of lies, it's amazing that men will always create NEW things to replace the OLD things which is Truth.Evil is SAD, Evil is becoming easily detected when it comes to Islam...It is becoming laughable that you can't see it.Another thing, you forgot the words... bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, which is sad, a corrupted translation you used.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
    Dear Superjag,First, only in later manuscripts does that reading appear. It is considered an interpolation. Either way, the issue of translation has no place in this thread, really. However, for the sake of making my point even more clear, maybe I should use the reading of the KJV."Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" ~Matthew 5:43-44Second, you are admittedly not reading through or considering my posts. How can we hope to discuss when you are only willing to preach? If a discussion is one sided, then neither party gets anywhere at all.Hoping to go somewhere, Tyrel.
     
  13. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    What is this pharisees thing you keep bringing up it was the sadducees and the pharisees that hated Christ and had him crucified you keep talking of them like they were great they were kennites that infilerated the Jewish priest hood and wanted to keep the money tables in the temples they hated Christ for challenging their rituals and the lively hood. They are the Jewish Priest that convinced the people to crucify Christ.Matt. 16:6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
    Goodness, the Pharisees weren't all bad. Be on guard because of their fatal flaw; lack of true religion. Amos 5:21-23 tells us how God feels about that. However, the Pharisees were not bad. Gamaliel was a Pharisee {Acts 5:33-38}, as was Paul {Acts 22:3}. God spoke prophetically through the Pharisaic priesthood even through caiaphas {John 11:46-52}. Notice also that it was the whole Sanhedrin, all the Pharisee's, who crucified him. This can be paralleled with us. We also crucify him. Do not be so quick to point the finger. Israel was made to be an example to us. That even a people who were carried By God, had a perfect ancestry that they could be proud of {having come from abraham, being the miraculous result of a covenant of God}, had Prophets sent to them to correct them, and Priests selected for them to train them in the Word of God. Even with all of these things, and God Carrying Israel as a child, they fell. The "best of the best" as far as disposition is concerned. They fell. This is the miraculous sign to us; All fail and fall short of the glory of God. The reason the Priesthood was bad is because it became corrupt, as are many people today. The difference is, the Pharisee's actually did have, and know, the word of God. Thus, it was the stubborness of their hearts. However, Nicodemus is considered to be an example to many of a Pharisee who didn't let the tradition of man get in his way, and sought Christ's teachings.http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?q...us&qs_version=9Don't be so quick to pass judgment on them, while you are still a sinner.In hope, Tyrel.
     
  14. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I am going to try to explain this one more time I wont use my words because you dont hear themJ. C. Ryle is best known for his plain and lively writings on practical and spiritual themes. His great aim in all his ministry, was to encourage strong and serious Christian living. But Ryle was not naive in his understanding of how this should be done. He recognized that, as a pastor of the flock of God, he had a responsibility to guard Christ's sheep and to warn them whenever he saw approaching dangers. Though I am not a pastor nor pretend to be I feel I have a responsability as teacher/moderator on this site to take seriously and warn when I see danger ahead that is what I see Now if you do not see it or want to see it then do what you must. No one has to agree with me but the warning sign are all around us. Time is short we are the last Generation we will have to face dangers no other Generation has ever faced in the history of man I will continue to point out danger where I see it. I love this site and my brothers and sisters in Christ on it whether we agree at all times or not.Now you wanna play down the dangers I see and give me posts by idots who have no clue what their talking about. No where in scripture are we told to love Gods enemys the fact you dont see them as such doent make your view correct.evangalize to them if you want but that does not change the facts. They want all Christians and Jews dead. That is fact and that is danger. Deny it if you will but I call it the way I see it and all one has to do is look around
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    (Biblical Tetragramaton;19476)
    Goodness, the Pharisees weren't all bad. Be on guard because of their fatal flaw; lack of true religion. Amos 5:21-23 tells us how God feels about that. However, the Pharisees were not bad. Gamaliel was a Pharisee {Acts 5:33-38}, as was Paul {Acts 22:3}. God spoke prophetically through the Pharisaic priesthood even through caiaphas {John 11:46-52}. Notice also that it was the whole Sanhedrin, all the Pharisee's, who crucified him. This can be paralleled with us. We also crucify him. Do not be so quick to point the finger. Israel was made to be an example to us. That even a people who were carried By God, had a perfect ancestry that they could be proud of {having come from abraham, being the miraculous result of a covenant of God}, had Prophets sent to them to correct them, and Priests selected for them to train them in the Word of God. Even with all of these things, and God Carrying Israel as a child, they fell. The "best of the best" as far as disposition is concerned. They fell. This is the miraculous sign to us; All fail and fall short of the glory of God. The reason the Priesthood was bad is because it became corrupt, as are many people today. The difference is, the Pharisee's actually did have, and know, the word of God. Thus, it was the stubborness of their hearts. However, Nicodemus is considered to be an example to many of a Pharisee who didn't let the tradition of man get in his way, and sought Christ's teachings.http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?q...us&qs_version=9Don't be so quick to pass judgment on them, while you are still a sinner.In hope, Tyrel.
    Well again we disagree but why would that surprise me did you hear what Jesus said not to average people the disciples why would he feel it necessary to warn of this yeast. Because yeast starts small and spreads and /fills pollutes every thing it touches this was no light weight warning and if you don't know how corrupt the priest hood was I suggest you start a study Another warning by God you fail to reconize are we seeing a pattern hereMatt. 16:6"Be careful," Jesus said to them. "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in."
     
  16. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Sister kriss,Why you bother? Time is of essense for us so lets get back to work.With love,-amy
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Kriss, she has a point there.Much love, JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua our Lord and Saviour.
     
  18. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (kriss;19477)
    I am going to try to explain this one more time I wont use my words because you dont hear themJ. C. Ryle is best known for his plain and lively writings on practical and spiritual themes. His great aim in all his ministry, was to encourage strong and serious Christian living. But Ryle was not naive in his understanding of how this should be done. He recognized that, as a pastor of the flock of God, he had a responsibility to guard Christ's sheep and to warn them whenever he saw approaching dangers. Though I am not a pastor nor pretend to be I feel I have a responsability as teacher/moderator on this site to take seriously and warn when I see danger ahead that is what I see Now if you do not see it or want to see it then do what you must. No one has to agree with me but the warning sign are all around us. Time is short we are the last Generation we will have to face dangers no other Generation has ever faced in the history of man I will continue to point out danger where I see it. I love this site and my brothers and sisters in Christ on it whether we agree at all times or not.Now you wanna play down the dangers I see and give me posts by idots who have no clue what their talking about. No where in scripture are we told to love Gods enemys the fact you dont see them as such doent make your view correct.evangalize to them if you want but that does not change the facts. They want all Christians and Jews dead. That is fact and that is danger. Deny it if you will but I call it the way I see it and all one has to do is look around
    Dear Kriss,With due respect, and understanding that we may disagree, I have agreed with the bolded quote which you have brought forward. A pastor must do that, and so I also very much respect that you attempt this. My aim is not to stop you, my aim is perhaps to better equip you when it comes to Islam.This is all.As for the Priesthood; yes, I suppose we simply disagree. I'm ok with that.As for Loving God's enemies; God loves. He sent his son to die for us, while we were still his enemies. He died for the gentiles, who were polytheists and very immoral. He died for the priesthood even praying for them. He died for you and me. This IS loving his enemies.{the verse on esau is far removed from context, and only indicates their "lots" in life. Meaning that Esau was unfortunate. Perhaps we will see this under examination of the passage some time. For now, I stick to my stance; Love!}In Love, Tyrel.
     
  19. bruv

    bruv New Member

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    Though my post was deleted in the other thread, and that thread subsequently locked, I have been told by Kriss that I may post it in this section.
    I know the feeling and ive only been here a couple of days.Biblical Tetragramaton I found your posts very interesting, the dialogue between you and Abdallah appears like one which maintained the highest of respects between both parties. I like you [​IMG]I am Muslim and have come across many of the points you have raised before and have logical responses to most of the points and unfavourable observations of Islam. But I am sure you have heard them all before from Abdallah.Btw is there any reason why you haven't published any of Abdallahs responses?You're different from the others on here. You appear to be the one strongest in your faith. The way I can see that is that you're not afraid to listen. You have an open mind, and do not constantly put up a shield and block any signs of evidences against your faith, as you 'know' your faith on both the spiritual and mental level. For that I respect you.Most of you must be wonderring who the hell am I waltzing in here. I'm surprised no-ones questioned it. Straight out its been "you muslims want every different faith dead", im about to "yeh but, yeh but..." but before I can -> topic locked.to be honest. thats not firm faith. thats fear.I think im a lot like you Biblical Tetragramaton, I look into everything, but I know the truth. You know your truth too. The other day I was looking into the claims evolutionaries make about man and ape sharing the same retrovirus's. The argument was solid. But I put my hands up to God and asked him to guide me, and he did. He showed me the flaws in the retrovirus arguments evolutionaries present against intelligent design.,..peace ya'll
     
  20. Tyrel

    Tyrel New Member

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    (bruv;19512)
    I know the feeling and ive only been here a couple of days.Biblical Tetragramaton I found your posts very interesting, the dialogue between you and Abdallah appears like one which maintained the highest of respects between both parties. I like you [​IMG]I am Muslim and have come across many of the points you have raised before and have logical responses to most of the points and unfavourable observations of Islam. But I am sure you have heard them all before from Abdallah.Btw is there any reason why you haven't published any of Abdallahs responses?You're different from the others on here. You appear to be the one strongest in your faith. The way I can see that is that you're not afraid to listen. You have an open mind, and do not constantly put up a shield and block any signs of evidences against your faith, as you 'know' your faith on both the spiritual and mental level. For that I respect you.Most of you must be wonderring who the hell am I waltzing in here. I'm surprised no-ones questioned it. Straight out its been "you muslims want every different faith dead", im about to "yeh but, yeh but..." but before I can -> topic locked.to be honest. thats not firm faith. thats fear.I think im a lot like you Biblical Tetragramaton, I look into everything, but I know the truth. You know your truth too. The other day I was looking into the claims evolutionaries make about man and human sharing the same retrovirus's. The argument was solid. But I put my hands up to God and asked him to guide me, and he did. He showed me the flaws in the retrovirus arguments evolutionaries present against intelligent design.,..peace ya'll
    As salaam Alaykum, is literally what rolled off of my tongue as I read your post.I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and you can be assured the respect is now mutual.Dear Bruv,To begin, I would just like to take a second and stand in defense of my brothers and sisters here on this Forum. They are doing the best they can by them, and nobody could ask more from them. While I very much disagree with them on seemingly a growing list of things, I nevertheless have respect for them. Amy knows Islam quite well, and is very bold.If you have read other posts from me, then you are no doubt aware of my stance. I believe in respecting Islam and loving Muslims, just as I respect everyone's beliefs and love them. That respect, however, does not mean that I wish to leave well enough alone. Not at all. I seek to discuss at great length the issues between our faiths, that we might both benefit from each others knowledge, and may perhaps be led, mutually, closer to Allah, and to the Truth.So, to this I invite you openly; that we should discuss each others faiths, and I hope to both present to you my reasons for believing the Gospel to be the Truth of God, and simultaneously hear about your faith and learn from you.Surely as the Qur'an says;“…either we or you are on right guidance or manifest error!”-Surah 34:24So I propose that we come together, just as both the Bible, and the Qur'an tell us; in the best of manner. “Don’t have anything to do with stupid and mindless arguments… The Lord’s servant must not quarrel.”~ 2 Timothy 2:23-24and yet; "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."~1 Peter 1:15-16Just as also the Qur'an declares clearly;“Do not dispute with the people of the book except in the best way”~Surah 29:46Together, I believe that we can search for the truth of these matters, keeping an open mind always, with respect and integrity as our guiding force.I very much look forward to your next post. Bless you.~Shalom ElechemPS - The reason I didn't post Abdallah's responses is because they don't exist. The letters you see are letters where a fictional character named Theophilus, writes to his Muslim friend. These letters are not, so far as we know, based on any actual letters. However, the point of the Pamphlet is to teach Christians what a proper response would be to a Muslim objection. The proper response is always to respond, with respect and gentleness, just as the scriptures tell us.
     
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