Defining Social Justice

[The_highwayman]

And he was heavily connected to the Democrat party. You got me all wrong. I'm not concerned that American Catholic cardinals are in bed with Democrats, I'm outraged that any church official is cozy with ANY politician. We're supposed to be the kingdom of heaven, aloof from the entanglements of earthly political factions and special interests. I'll note correctly that to the degree Catholic clergy have colluded with political agenda's it's been largely Democrat party agenda's. but my ultimate condemnation is any entanglements with earthly powers whatsoever. I've correctly argued that all of the mistakes of the Catholic church historically have involved such liaisons and you have failed to refute that notion.

Vale,
The Apostle Paul warned even young Timothy of this very thing in 2 Tim 2.3-4

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Vale,
The Apostle Paul warned even young Timothy of this very thing in 2 Tim 2.3-4

I think that everything Jesus taught is of paramount importance. I think that the things Jesus repeated over and over again ought to really get our attention. How many times and in how many ways did Jesus clarify that his kingdom is not an earthly kingdom? He rejected association with every political faction of his day and called his followers to enlist in a kingdom without boundaries, armies, or earthly prerogatives. The very unholy alliance that's happening between Catholic clergy and leftist politicians goes against everything Jesus taught.

 

[The_highwayman]

Vale,
This poison has completely destroyed the ranks of the Protestant Baptists. It All started with Jerry Falwell and is now just foolishness. Walk into any Baptist church in the midwest and you will likely only hear motivational speakers masquerading as Pastors preaching against something political, instead of for something spiritual.

We have thousands of protest Christians thinking raising their voice against the leftist agenda is actually advancing the kingdom.

This is why so many Christians need to wake up.

 

[aspen]

And he was heavily connected to the Democrat party. You got me all wrong. I'm not concerned that American Catholic cardinals are in bed with Democrats, I'm outraged that any church official is cozy with ANY politician. We're supposed to be the kingdom of heaven, aloof from the entanglements of earthly political factions and special interests. I'll note correctly that to the degree Catholic clergy have colluded with political agenda's it's been largely Democrat party agenda's. but my ultimate condemnation is any entanglements with earthly powers whatsoever. I've correctly argued that all of the mistakes of the Catholic church historically have involved such liaisons and you have failed to refute that notion.

I think it is obvious that church and state should be separate - history abounds with examples of abuse whenever the church mistakes itself for government or becomes to closely tied with government.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I think it is obvious that church and state should be separate - history abounds with examples of abuse whenever the church mistakes itself for government or becomes to closely tied with government.

I'm glad you agree. I was sickened when I heard on the news that the Los Angeles diocese was considering which of its properties, office buildings, etc it would sell off to pay for a multi million dollar settlement and when the assets were listed, it was more than obscene. It made us Catholics look bad to see such wealth amassed as part of the trappings of power. I couldn't help but think of how many poor people could have been helped with that money. It was bad enough that much of the cover ups happened in that diocese, moving offending priests around to avoid scandal which did nothing more but perpetuate abuses. But to add to that how cozy Mahoney has been with politicians and how wealthy and powerful that diocese had become was more than injurious and a blight on the Catholic Church.

And that's why I can't separate in my mind the collaboration of clergy and office holders and the corruption it breeds, and how it compromises the Church's moral authority and causes it to neglect the poor and neglect it's God given duties. Do you have a problem with my noting that nearly all of these collaborations involve Democrats and not Republicans? Did I say that all Democrats are involved in this? If not, then I certainly didn't indict the entire Democrat party. But it's this party, and NOT the Republicans, promoting a highly socialist version of 'social justice' so as to leave confusion in the minds of the world what real social justice is by the longstanding tradition of the Church.

 

[aspen]

I have no problem with it, if you were able to look past your own nose and note that most Catholics were Democrats before the moral majority rose up in the late 70 s and duped American Catholics who used to be for unions and recruited them into the Republican Party on one issue - abortion. If Catholics were traditionally Republican you would see the same kind of relationships with Republican corruption and the Catholic Church. Also, the Catholic Church did not receive it's vast wealth from politicians from any party - it was rich long before American was a nation.

The book 'What's the matter with Kansas' discusses the Republican hijacking of middle America.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I have no problem with it, if you were able to look past your own nose and note that most Catholics were Democrats before the moral majority rose up in the late 70 s and duped American Catholics who used to be for unions and recruited them into the Republican Party on one issue - abortion. If Catholics were traditionally Republican you would see the same kind of relationships with Republican corruption and the Catholic Church. Also, the Catholic Church did not receive it's vast wealth from politicians from any party - it was rich long before American was a nation.

The book 'What's the matter with Kansas' discusses the Republican hijacking of middle America.

Good God your bias is shameless! Democrats can be cozy with the Catholic Church and that's ok, but if it's Republicans then it's a hijacking? And you furthermore don't understand the nature of the Catholic Church if you think we're rich. St. Nicholas of Myra set the model that has governed the church all these centuries, a lot of money coming in and a lot going out, but never amassed in some secret vault. Catholic charities is the largest charity in the world. So when a certain diocese acquires obscene gobs of wealth you dismiss it as quotidian (partly because of the hackery you just betrayed) when I know that it's at sharp variance with the tradition of the Catholic Church to horde all that wealth and not use it for the poor.

The difference between you and I is that you're Democrat before you're Catholic and I'm Catholic before I'm anything else. That much is now clear.

 

[aspen]

Good God your bias is shameless! Democrats can be cozy with the Catholic Church and that's ok, but if it's Republicans then it's a hijacking? And you furthermore don't understand the nature of the Catholic Church if you think we're rich. St. Nicholas of Myra set the model that has governed the church all these centuries, a lot of money coming in and a lot going out, but never amassed in some secret vault. Catholic charities is the largest charity in the world. So when a certain diocese acquires obscene gobs of wealth you dismiss it as quotidian (partly because of the hackery you just betrayed) when I know that it's at sharp variance with the tradition of the Catholic Church to horde all that wealth and not use it for the poor.

The difference between you and I is that you're Democrat before you're Catholic and I'm Catholic before I'm anything else. That much is now clear.

LOL - my bias is shameless? When did I say it was ok for Democrats to be cozy with the Catholic Church?? It is your own bias that is reading into what I said in my post.

Republicans convinced Catholics to go against their own interests, based on one issue - abortion - sorry, it is a fact.

The Catholic Church is rich in property holdings. It is not many organizations that can pay out the vast about of court settlements AND remodel two of its main cathedrals to the tune of millions of dollars - yet Spokane is right in the middle of it.

Catholic Charities? What does Catholic Charities have to do with the wealth of the Catholic Church? I worked for Catholic Charities for years and they were immune from all settlement payments - they are always broke btw, and have to rely on people like Bill Gates to build their buildings - no cathedrals for them.....

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

LOL - my bias is shameless? When did I say it was ok for Democrats to be cozy with the Catholic Church?? It is your own bias that is reading into what I said in my post.

Republicans convinced Catholics to go against their own interests, based on one issue - abortion - sorry, it is a fact.

The Catholic Church is rich in property holdings. It is not many organizations that can pay out the vast about of court settlements AND remodel two of its main cathedrals to the tune of millions of dollars - yet Spokane is right in the middle of it.

Catholic Charities? What does Catholic Charities have to do with the wealth of the Catholic Church? I worked for Catholic Charities for years and they were immune from all settlement payments - they are always broke btw, and have to rely on people like Bill Gates to build their buildings - no cathedrals for them.....

So now the Republicans didn't "hijack" middle America, they actually convinced people. And how is being a Republican against the interest of Catholics? How is that even remotely true? And how is it better for Catholics to support a party that supports abortion on demand? Oh, but that's right, you're one of the fake pro lifers I identified in another thread who doesn't want laws to protect the rights of the unborn. How convenient. Did it ever occur to you that Catholic Republicans identify with the GOP on a whole host of issues, not just one?

Your hackery is just astounding!

 

[Selene]

Aspen,
I did not say any Christian was failing, I said many Christians need to wake up. Big difference.

I agree. Christians need to wake up. If one looks at the abortion statistics, for example, Christians (both Protestants and Catholics) have high abortion rates. We need to live up to our Christian values.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

I agree. Christians need to wake up. If one looks at the abortion statistics, for example, Christians (both Protestants and Catholics) have high abortion rates. We need to live up to our Christian values.

The wishy washy half hearted anti-abortion stance easily explains this. If Christians are only somewhat against abortion, then when competing interests conspire against the life of the unborn, abortion will be considered as an option. Catholics also have a high rate of the use of contraceptives and Protestants have abandoned all opposition to this prevailing social evil. A compromise in beliefs leads to a compromise in actions.