Did evil exist at the time of Genesis 3:5?

[TonyChanYT]

Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

God created everything good back in Gen 1. Now, God used the serpent to test Eve.

He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’”

Eve misquoted God's words but that's an innocent mistake.

4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die.

The serpent formally contradicted God according to First-Order Logic.

5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

God knew everything. God knew evil existed.

At this point, has anyone done anything evil?

I think so. Contradicting God was an evil act. I think the serpent was a manifestation of the devil Satan. Jesus said in John 8:44 he was a liar from the beginning.

The innocent Eve was no match for the evil serpent. She failed the test. Immediately, she and Adam experienced bad thoughts that were not bad before. They saw that being naked was no good. They developed their independent definitions apart from God's.

What about today? How do we decide what is good or evil?

Well, I have been born of the Spirit. The more I grow in the Spirit, the more the Paraclete councils me and guides me in my conscience.

 

[O'Darby]

The potential for evil existed from the moment God decided to create beings with free will. I don't think we know who those beings were or when they were created. The creation that presently exists, in both the heavenly realm and the earthly realm, is not necessarily God's first or only act of creation. We just don't know.

Of course, even those who have not been born again can recognize evil. As Paul says, their consciences tell them. The indwelling and guidance of the Spirit hopefully "fine tunes" our consciences and helps us stay on the path of righteousness - at least better than someone who has not been born of the Spirit.

I think you're correct that the innocent Eve was no match for the evil serpent. She presumably would not even have had any concept of being deceived or of obeying God being "good" and listening to the serpent being "evil." This does, however, open a theological can of worms for a literalist reading of the Genesis account.

 

[Jay Ross]

Gen 1:2 tells us that evil existed, because darkness/evil was covering the face/opening of the deep.

 

[Kabone]

I read an argument that evil doesn’t exist without god, and god does not exist without evil. Since god is eternal (debatable), then evil has always existed. I struggle with that argument. It suggests that the default state of the universe is evil, much like without light the default state is darkness.
I don’t see how the serpent lied. The fruit did what the snake said it would, and they did not die. So either satan is not a perpetual liar, or the snake wasn’t satan.
The question is similar to ‘is it a sin if god didn’t tell you it was?’ I don’t believe that the universe is inherently evil. I think evil is simply a judgment.
Do animals have free will? Can animals commit evil?

 

[TonyChanYT]

I read an argument that evil doesn’t exist without god, and god does not exist without evil.

verse?

 

[Kabone]

The argument wasn’t made using bible verses. I think the intent was to explain that god didn’t create evil. Seems like evil was created when god was created

 

[TonyChanYT]

The argument wasn’t made using bible verses. I think the intent was to explain that god didn’t create evil. Seems like evil was created when god was created

Sure, I assign some weight to that. I would have put more weight if it is support by some verse.

 

[TonyChanYT]

I don’t see how the serpent lied. The fruit did what the snake said it would, and they did not die.

See Did the serpent lie about Eve would be like God, knowing good and evil and follow up there.

 

[Jay Ross]

perhaps the first couple of verses of Genesis 1 provides the answer: -

1:1 First God created {the entities of} the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was covering the face of the abyss. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Where darkness, i.e., evil, was hiding the entry into the abyss.

Seems to me that verse 2 above answers the question posed.

Shalom

 

[Dan Clarkston]

God created everything good back in Gen 1. Now, God used the serpent to test Eve.

The devil is not a servant of the Lord so the Lord did not send the devil to go tempt eve.

It's sad to see that some believe the Lord is doing evil things to people such as trying to get them to sin.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I don’t see how the serpent lied. The fruit did what the snake said it would, and they did not die.

They did too die... spiritually as in they became separated from God. (spiritual death)

God specifically said when they ate of the tree they would die and God cannot lie, so they died spiritually which is the death the Lord was referring to, not physical death.

Real Christians believe what the Lord says!

 

[TonyChanYT]

The devil is not a servant of the Lord

See The Changing Role of satan [lowercase] and follow up there

 

[Kabone]

See Did the serpent lie about Eve would be like God, knowing good and evil and follow up there.

The arguments weren’t convincing enough.

 

[Kabone]

They did too die... spiritually as in they became separated from God. (spiritual death)

God specifically said when they ate of the tree they would die and God cannot lie, so they died spiritually which is the death the Lord was referring to, not physical death.

Real Christians believe what the Lord

Can we drill down a little deeper on spiritually and separation? Before the snake, what would Adam and Eve have done that would be considered spiritual? I see no altars, no sacrifice, no thanks, no praise, not even rest on the sabbath day. It’s possible Adam and Eve became mortal after eating the apple; they eventually did die.
What do you mean by separated from god? God’s in heaven; they’re stuck on earth. There’s already a separation. I don’t see that they ever sought out god. They were just there living, like fish in a tank. God would seek them out, like a parent peeking in on their child.
It seems a bit of a stretch that everything in genesis is literal except that one statement.

 

[Kabone]

The devil is not a servant of the Lord so the Lord did not send the devil to go tempt eve.

It's sad to see that some believe the Lord is doing evil things to people such as trying to get them to sin.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Have you read Job?

 

[Wrangler]

Gen 1:2 tells us that evil existed, because darkness/evil was covering the face/opening of the deep.

More blatant eisegesis on your part. In this context, darkness is the literal absence of light for it has not been created yet. In this context, darkness is not a euphemism for evil.

Still, we know by implication that evil existed by GE 3:5 for the serpent was crafty because Lucifer had already been cast out of heaven, which explains what it/he was doing on Earth in the Garden.

 

[Wrangler]

Before the snake, what would Adam and Eve have done that would be considered spiritual? I see no altars, no sacrifice, no thanks, no praise, not even rest on the sabbath day.

Well, I for one consider it the epitome of spiritual to stand before God naked and not be ashamed. GE 2:25.

 

[TonyChanYT]

The arguments weren’t convincing enough.

Go ahead and post your arguments there.

 

[Jay Ross]

More blatant eisegesis on your part. In this context, darkness is the literal absence of light for it has not been created yet. In this context, darkness is not a euphemism for evil.

Still, we know by implication that evil existed by GE 3:5 for the serpent was crafty because Lucifer had already been cast out of heaven, which explains what it/he was doing on Earth in the Garden.

Wrangler you have your opinion that I presented blatant eisegesis, yet you love to share yours.

 

[Jude Thaddeus]

Go ahead and post your arguments there.

Satan, Lucifer, a serpent, a dragon, they are all the same. (Rev. 12:9) I contend that the serpent, whatever you want to call it, was a perfect angel created by God, and rebelled. He or it rebelled in eternity, so his sin is eternal. That's why he/it cannot repent. We are confined to time and space which can make it difficult to wrap our brains around what eternity is. Time and space does not exist in eternity. God is outside of time and space. He is the basis for all existence, or ground of being and not another item in the universe.
With at said, let's compare Genesis 3:15 with Revelation 12:17.

Genesis 3:15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head,[a] and you shall bruise his heel.”

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman,[c] and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood[d] on the sand of the sea.

What's interesting is that these are the only 2 verses in all of Scripture where we have a woman and a dragon in the same verse. "Eve" means "mother of all living" (Genesis 3:20) and who would argue that "those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus, are not living??? "those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus." in accordance with an informed conscience, are saved: the offspring of the woman. It does not refer to any denomination. We are all children of the woman, her offspring, alive in Christ, in heaven or on earth. How many times does Jesus call His mother "woman"?

Let's lighten things up with a joke. What was the first thing Adam said when he saw Eve?
WHOA! MAN!!!