Joe, what parent disregards the danger that ever surrounds his child and allows him to do as he pleases? Likewise, God also sets boundaries to preserve our lives as He works out His plans to lead us to repentance, hoping we choose Him over sin.
Dear Phoneman777,
You said:
Relationships help us understand the character of God - whether between humans or beasts. How sad that Calvinists look to satan's "Religion of Exclusivity" to do the same.
No, relationships do not help a person understand the character of God. You really need to learn your truth from scripture instead of from the reasoning of the carnal mind.
Don't you realize that mankind is spiritually marred, carnal, sinful and spiritually blind? If you are looking at mankind, you will not learn anything about the character of God.
Also, I am not a Calvinist. By using your faulty logic, you must be a Catholic or JW, or a Mormon since they, too, believe in free will.
You said:
Not sure what you're point is, but we can safely dismiss it as unable to discount a choice to not live by it.
Mat 4:4 is a third witness to these verses:
Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.
You said:
He makes a "vessel unto honor" when He leads one to repentance...and they repent.
Conversely, a "vessel unto dishonor" remains when repentance is refused.
So how is it that Christ makes a vessel of honor, if He can only "lead" a person to repentance? Don't you know that a person's repentance is caused by God?
2Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure WILL GIVE THEM repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
If mankind has a free will ability to repent, why does Paul say that a person's repentance is a gift from God?
You said:
The Sun melts butter but hardens clay - it's not the fault of the Sun, but the material upon which it acts.
This is not taught in scripture. You need to learn your truth from scripture and not by the reasonings of the carnal mind.
You further commented:
Likewise, when truth is unwelcome, it causes those to whom it is unwelcome to be blind to it - just as Calvinists choose to be blind to their hypocrisy for dissatisfaction for robotic affection while demanding God be satisfied with the same.
This is more false reasoning from the carnal mind.
Here is what scripture says about mankind:
1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
In this carnal and sinful condition, no person can understand or want to seek out Christ. For this reason, Christ must come to a person and freely give them the Spirit. This is what Christ did with Paul and is what He must do for anyone to accept Him as their Lord. Without the Spirit, no person has ability to submit to Christ:
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
You said:
See, I keep reading that verse but I can't find the word "only" between "chosen" and "you".
Amazing how the carnal mind works! What can you do to this scripture below so that you can keep your "works" based faith intact?
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
You said:
I tried to give a man a Bible tract, but he wouldn't open his hand to take it...same as the impenitent Jews.
He wouldn't take it because he believed that what you were offering him was "foolishness". A person's submission to Christ
only happens as a result of Christ giving the person the Holy Spirit. You are ignoring what scripture teaches so that you can maintain your false beliefs.
You said in response to 1Cor 12:3:
And that disproves freewill choice how?
Are you so indoctrinated that you can't understand a simple statement of truth? No man can call Jesus Lord without the Spirit. Can a man without the Spirit call Jesus Lord? Absolutely not. No amount of supposed free will ability can overcome the power of God to blind a person to the truth.
Isa 44:18 They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.
You made this statement about Eph 1:11:
Again, can't find "only" between the words "being" and "predestined". God predestined all of us to inherit the kingdom - most would rather go to hell.
Your carnal logic is quite amazing.
All mankind has sinned and has become the children of the devil. The penalty for sin is death. Because of this penalty, mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) and will perish in the Lake of Fire. But since Christ loves all mankind, Christ will come to all mankind before they perish from His judgment and freely give them the Spirit. With the Spirit, mankind will be made into a new creation. This is called conversion.
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
You made this statement about Phi 2:13:
Doesn't discount free will choice.
Again...your understanding is quite amazing.
Here is the definition of "free will":
The freedom to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention.
Scripture is full of teachings that say mankind's "will" is directed by God. Phi 2:13 is one of them.
Just how would Christ have to say it for you to believe that mankind does not have a free will ability?
You said:
Joe, what parent disregards the danger that ever surrounds his child and allows him to do as he pleases? Likewise, God also sets boundaries to preserve our lives as He works out His plans to lead us to repentance, hoping we choose Him over sin.
So Christ only "hopes" to save mankind? Then, to help with this goal, Christ sets boundaries??? Again, there are ZERO scriptures which teach this nonsense.
Does anything you believe come from the teachings of Christ?
Joe
