Did Jesus come to minister to the Gentiles?

[RichardBurger]

If it was only in one place I might agree with you. Maybe this will help you see it.PROBLEM NO. 1--THAT THERE IS ONLY "ONE GOSPEL" IN THE BIBLE.The Scofield Bible is a good example of the Acts 2 position concerning the gospel. On page 1343 of the old Scofield Bible (the 1909 edition) it states in its note on "Gospel:" "Four forms of the Gospel are to be distinguished." It mentions the Gospel of the Kingdom, the Gospel of the grace of God, the Everlasting Gospel, and Paul's "My Gospel." Then at the bottom of the note it refers to "another Gospel" that is mentioned in Gal. 1:6, inferring that it is a false gospel. This note uses the word "gospel" in the singular.A very common argument that is used to show that there is only "one gospel" in the Bible has to do with the doctrine of justification by faith. It is taught that since Abraham and David were justified by faith (Rom. 4:1-8) and lived in the Old Testament, and that we today are also justified by faith (Rom. 5:1), then the same gospel must be preached in both Testaments.Another common argument is that there is only one purpose of God in the Bible, consequently, one gospel. While this is basic to Reformed Theology, Acts 2 Dispensationalists go along with it because it seems to give some credence to the "one gospel" theory. They also use Romans 1:1-2 to show that the Gospel is found in the Old Testament.*THE TRUTH.The Bible does not teach the "one gospel" theory, only theologians teach it. The Bible does not use the phrase "one gospel." only theologians use it. The Bible does not teach that God has revealed the same gospel message for all the dispensations of time. Rather, it is just the reverse. God has revealed different messages of "good news" to mankind during certain periods of time, as He has willed. These messages are not to be mixed up or to be constituted as parts of one gospel. They were taken at face value at the time they were revealed.The Scofield note on page 1343 could have been made much clearer and easier to understand. It is too general in its language. But it still reflects the teaching that there is only one gospel, one way of salvation, and that it is by grace through faith in all dispensations. Those who believe this way really preach a homogenized gospel that is made up of some truth from the Kingdom of Heaven Gospel and some truth from the Grace Gospel of the Apostle Paul. This mixing of two gospels also leaves out some vital truth related to each gospel. This is not good Bible teaching.As to the doctrine of justification by faith, it sounds right but further examination proves that the conclusion is false. First, the doctrine of justification by faith is NOT the gospel message. Faith is a RESULT of the gospel or good news being believed by the individual as it is revealed by God. Justification is one of the works of God that takes place at the time of salvation. We don't tell people to be justified; we tell them that they must be saved. Second, faith is taking God at His Word, by believing what God has said. In the case of Abraham, Paul went back to Genesis 15:5-6, which says: "And He brought him forth abroad and said, Look now toward heaven and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall thy seed be. [6] And he believed in the LORD; and He counted it to him for righteousness." Verse 6 is unique because three words - "believed" "righteousness," and "counted" - are used here for the first time in the Old Testament. Abram believed (exercised faith) in what God told him, which is the contents of verse 5. Verse 5 does not contain the Gospel of the grace of God nor does it contain the Gospel of the Kingdom. Verse 5 is related to the Abrahamic Covenant which Paul called in Gal. 3:8, "the gospel unto Abraham."In Galatians 1:6 there is "another gospel," a HETEROS gospel which is a gospel of a different kind. The Gospel of the Kingdom is what the Judaizers preached to the Galatian believers, not a "false gospel" that Acts 2 people use to identify "another gospel." The Gospel of the Kingdom is a gospel of a different kind.In Galatians 1:7 you have "the gospel of Christ," which is another name for the Gospel of the grace of God; and in Gal. 3:8 the "gospel preached unto Abraham" is what Jehovah God told him in Genesis 12:3; 15:5-6. Besides these three gospels in Galatians, there is "the Everlasting Gospel" of Rev. 14:6.So there are at least four Gospels that are clearly mentioned in the Bible. It doesn't take a whole lot of study to see that they are different from one another. But it does take a lot of human ingenuity to make them all the same.The theory of "one gospel" needs to be seen as a major problem because so much hinges on it. Are we saved today by the gospel revealed to Paul, or, are we saved by the Gospel preached by Peter? We can't be saved by both of them together. The Gospel of the Kingdom will make you religious today, but the Gospel of the grace of God alone will prepare you for heaven in God's spiritual realm.When one reads Romans 1:1-2, it sounds like there is only "one gospel" in the Bible: "Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God [2] which ((or could it be whom) He had promised afore by His prophets in the Holy Scriptures."The key word here is the first word in verse 2 - which. It is the Greek pronoun HOS. It can mean "who" or "whom" when referring to persons; "what" when referring to objects; "which" when referring to things.Now the question is this: "What is the "gospel" mentioned in verse 1? Is it a message (like 1 Cor. 15:1-4) or could it be a person?" It would help us to know an important fact - that "which" modifies "gospel" of verse 1.Well, what did the old Testament prophets write about? Did they write about a "message" or did they write about a "person"? The overwhelming evidence indicates that they wrote about a Person. All you have to do is go to Psalm 22, Isaiah 7:14; 9:6; 11:1-5; Isaiah 53; Jer. 23:6; Zechariah 12:10, and to many other passages. They wrote about a coming Messiah for the Nation of Israel. They did not know the name of Jesus, like we do, but they knew One was coming. Furthermore, Romans 1:1-2 is a repeat of Gal. 1:16, where Paul stated that he preached Christ Jesus as the gospel (Greek). So the right meaning of HOS in verse 2 is the word "Whom" when it- refers to a Person. The Gospel of the grace of God is not found in the Old Testament.Written by Robert C. Brockhttp://www.starlightresearch.com/ActsProblems.htmlNote: this website is no longer in effect with this article.Richard

 

[FoC]

(RichardBurger;51687)
If it was only in one place I might agree with you. Maybe this will help you see it.Richard

No, it wont help me see it.If Paul said 'my gospel' thousands of times, and over his ministry he very well could have verbalized it, it STILL does not mean that his is not Christs gospel.As I said, you are taking two very minute details and making a HUGE doctrinal error with them.There is ONE Gospel and that is Christs.PAULS gospel is CHRISTS gospel...period.edit...see the following post.

 

[FoC]

Lets see what Pauls gospel is, shall we ?

Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 2Co 2:12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; (Rom 1:9 KJV)For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ: (2Co 10:14 KJV)Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16 KJV)Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Rom 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ. 2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 1Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith: 1Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God. 1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.​

you readers see what Paul himself says about ANY gospel other than Christs

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:6-9 KJV)​

Paul CLEARLY shows that it is the gospel of CHRIST and if ANYONE, even an angel of heaven, brings ANY other gospel then let him be cursed...If Paul brought ANOTHER gospel not Christs, then PAUL himself is to be accursed !Apparently, according to some here, Paul HAD to have taught TWO gospels...something he himself seems to condemn above.[url="http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=165&p=418#p418]http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/vie...=165&p=418#p418[/url]

 

[RichardBurger]

(FoC;51690)
No, it wont help me see it.If Paul said 'my gospel' thousands of times, and over his ministry he very well could have verbalized it, it STILL does not mean that his is not Christs gospel.As I said, you are taking two very minute details and making a HUGE doctrinal error with them.There is ONE Gospel and that is Christs.PAULS gospel is CHRISTS gospel...period.edit...see the following post.
That is my point. Paul's gospel is the same as the gospel of Christ's. As the article stated "In Galatians 1:7 you have "the gospel of Christ," which is another name for the Gospel of the grace of God".Richard

 

[RichardBurger]

(FoC;51692)
Lets see what Pauls gospel is, shall we ?

Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 2Co 2:12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; (Rom 1:9 KJV)For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ: (2Co 10:14 KJV)Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16 KJV)Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Rom 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ. 2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?​

you readers see what Paul himself says about ANY gospel other than Christs

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:6-9 KJV)​

Paul CLEARLY shows that it is the gospel of CHRIST and if ANYONE, even an angel of heaven, brings ANY other gospel then let him be cursed...If Paul brought ANOTHER gospel not Christs, then PAUL himself is to be accursed !Apparently, according to some here, Paul HAD to have taught TWO gospels...something he himself seems to condemn above.[url="http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=165&p=418#p418]http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/vie...=165&p=418#p418[/url]
You said; "Paul CLEARLY shows that it is the gospel of CHRIST and if ANYONE, even an angel of heaven, brings ANY other gospel then let him be cursed...If Paul brought ANOTHER gospel not Christs, then PAUL himself is to be accursed ! --- Apparently, according to some here, Paul HAD to have taught TWO gospels...something he himself seems to condemn above."No! It is your play on words, that you have changed, that are confusing you. In one place you say Gospel of Christ (ABOUT Christ and that is what Paul preached) and then you say Christ's gospel. Christ's gospel that He preached was the "kingdom at hand gospel", a kingdome on earth that He was going to setup. You want to say that the gospel Christ taught is the gospel ABOUT Christ that Paul preached and that is not true.Jesus never taught grace. He told the Jews and the 12 to keep the Law of Moses. "The Pharisees sit in Moses seat. Whatsoever they tell you to do, do. But don't do as they do. For they say do and they do not."Richard

 

[RichardBurger]

“creed” – the word is a Latin derivative from the verb "to believe” – prescribes what one believes in.A covenant concerns a relationship: how we agree to relate to God, or one another. A person, man/woman, has to believe in a covenant between themselves and God, or another, in order for the covenant to be honored. A covenant is the rules for a relationship between two parties.A gospel explains how people relate to a covenant.In the scriptures, a gospel establishes a covenant. You can’t separate the two. A covenant is nothing unless the parties agree to it. How can the agree to it unless they hear what the covenant is? A gospel is nothing unless it establishes what it is about (in the case of the new covenant there has to be a gospel to explain it). -- The same gospel that explained the old covenant cannot be used to explain a new covenant.Richard

 

[FoC]

(RichardBurger;51697)
No! It is your play on words, that you have changed, that are confusing you.
There is no confusion here, friend, except that which tries to assert that there is more than once single gospel.
In one place you say Gospel of Christ (ABOUT Christ and that is what Paul preached) and then you say Christ's gospel.
And NOW for a play on words...

There is ONE Gospel..ONE...and that is Christs.No amount of semantics is going to change that.Let ANY man or devil who brings ANY other gospel be accursed !

 

[FoC]

You want to say that the gospel Christ taught is the gospel ABOUT Christ that Paul preached and that is not true.
What a load of nonsense.Jesus spoke about Himself ALL the time !It IS true...BOTH Christ and Paul taught THE gospel...CHRISTS gospel.Ive seen nothing presented by you here that nullifies that fact.And quite frankly, I have to state for the record that if you are presenting the idea of a SECOND gospel then Pauls harsh words in Galatians apply DIRECTLY to you.

 

[FoC]

(RichardBurger;51697)
No! It is your play on words, that you have changed, that are confusing you.
There is no confusion here, friend, except that which tries to assert that there is more than once single gospel.
In one place you say Gospel of Christ (ABOUT Christ and that is what Paul preached) and then you say Christ's gospel.
And NOW for a play on words...

There is ONE Gospel..ONE...and that is Christs.No amount of semantics is going to change that.Let ANY man or devil who brings ANY other gospel be accursed !(RichardBurger;51697)
Jesus never taught grace. He told the Jews and the 12 to keep the Law of Moses.
Jesus was a JEW born under law. HIS covenant was not yet ratified, poster...He would have been breaking the law He upheld to go against it while that covenant was still in place.Pick up a bible sometime(RichardBurger;51695)
That is my point. Paul's gospel is the same as the gospel of Christ's. As the article stated "In Galatians 1:7 you have "the gospel of Christ," which is another name for the Gospel of the grace of God".Richard

If you are claiming that they ARE the same gospel, then what on earth are you arguing here?
You want to say that the gospel Christ taught is the gospel ABOUT Christ that Paul preached and that is not true.
What a load of nonsense.Jesus spoke about Himself ALL the time !It IS true...BOTH Christ and Paul taught THE gospel...CHRISTS gospel.Ive seen nothing presented by you here that nullifies that fact.And quite frankly, I have to state for the record that if you are presenting the idea of a SECOND gospel then Pauls harsh words in Galatians apply DIRECTLY to you.

 

[FoC]

(RichardBurger;51695)
That is my point. Paul's gospel is the same as the gospel of Christ's. As the article stated "In Galatians 1:7 you have "the gospel of Christ," which is another name for the Gospel of the grace of God".Richard

If you are claiming that they ARE the same gospel, then what on earth are you arguing here?

 

[FoC]

For you readers, simply look at the evidence yourself.Dont allow anyone who tries to make this all more complicated than it is confuse you.Jesus was in a entirely different environment during His ministry as the old covenant was not yet set aside and would not be until His death ratified the new covenant at the cross.Pauls ministry is AFTER the New covenant was now in effect. Paul also was bringing the gospel to a whole different audience that Jesus had.Some twist these details to try to assert things like Paul saying 'my gospel' as meaning that these were TWO gospels...they werent.The gospel of God...of Christ...and when Paul says MY gospel are ALL refering to the SAME gospel (the GOOD NEWS!) of Jesus Christ...not the 'good news of the apostle Paul'..(FoC;51692)
Lets see what Pauls gospel is, shall we ?

Co 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. 1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel. 2Co 2:12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord, For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; (Rom 1:9 KJV)For we stretch not ourselves beyond our measure, as though we reached not unto you: for we are come as far as to you also in preaching the gospel of Christ: (2Co 10:14 KJV)Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Rom 1:16 KJV)Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. Rom 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ. 2Co 11:7 Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? 1Th 3:2 And sent Timotheus, our brother, and minister of God, and our fellowlabourer in the gospel of Christ, to establish you, and to comfort you concerning your faith: 1Th 2:9 For ye remember, brethren, our labour and travail: for labouring night and day, because we would not be chargeable unto any of you, we preached unto you the gospel of God. 1Th 2:2 But even after that we had suffered before, and were shamefully entreated, as ye know, at Philippi, we were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention.​

you readers see what Paul himself says about ANY gospel other than Christs

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. (Gal 1:6-9 KJV)​

Paul CLEARLY shows that it is the gospel of CHRIST and if ANYONE, even an angel of heaven, brings ANY other gospel then let him be cursed...If Paul brought ANOTHER gospel not Christs, then PAUL himself is to be accursed !Apparently, according to some here, Paul HAD to have taught TWO gospels...something he himself seems to condemn above.[url="http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=165&p=418#p418]http://studies.assembly-ministries.org/vie...=165&p=418#p418[/url]

 

[manichunter]

Ephraim does represent the House of the Gentiles. His mother was an Egyptian. However, if you go to Revelations you see God using the name Joseph again, so both Tim and FOC have two halfs of a whole truth. God gave the gentiles an inheritance through Ephraim and Manassah by Jacob/Israel grafting them into the household of Israel as his own sons. Joseph was considered dead to the Israel. But Joseph's offspring through his death were mande alive to the covenant. They recieved their father share of the covenant. Can you see the foreshadowing taking place. Wham, then the second covenant, the same takes place. The gentile is grafted into the house of Israel. Uh oh, the gentiles did the same thing Ephraim did. Ephraim split the united kingdom; and then took the name of Israel as there own, and started worshipping as they saw fit. There is nothing new under the sun.Then in the book of revelation you have as FOC says the combined Israel united as it should be. Joseph's name is restored as head of the Tribe. Now everyone that has made it to everlasting life is "Spiritual Israel" forever with Yeshua as their King of Judah.

 

[FoC]

I wont be posting in any more of these threads.I feel Ive made what few points I wanted to make and I dont want to sit here grinding gears.I only come by this forum to refute a certain MDR doctrines and I think I need to stick to that particular thing.God bless.Sorry for aggrivating anyone

 

[manichunter]

(FoC;51710)
I wont be posting in any more of these threads.I feel Ive made what few points I wanted to make and I dont want to sit here grinding gears.I only come by this forum to refute a certain MDR doctrines and I think I need to stick to that particular thing.God bless.Sorry for aggrivating anyone

What is MDR doctrines? Let me know kind brother. Thanks chris

 

[RichardBurger]

FoC, obviously you are playing to the readers to make yourself look good. I was beginning to see it when you mentioned, several times, that I was hanging my belief on one thing in the scriptures. It was your attempt to show others that I didn't have much support for what I believe. You are not talking to me, but to the readers. Obviously you are using me to elevate yourself. I really see no need to continue in a DISCUSSION with you since that is the case.IMHO trying to win your war by making me look bad is being deceitful. I have given many places in the scriptures that support that there was a gospel that was fading away and a new gospel that took its place.Since it is obvious that you want to win this discussion in the eyes of the readers, and are not looking for the truth, I don't feel I am obligated to discuss this with you any longer. I do not wish to go through this having to defend myself from your distortions about me.Now I will play to the readers. For the readers I will show that the NEW GOSPEL of grace taught by Paul was not in effect until Jesus paid the price for man’s sins on the cross. Until that time there was a gospel of the kingdom which included the Law of Moses.Gal 3:8-98 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, "In you all the nations shall be blessed."9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.(NKJ)If you don't notice the three (3) words "foreseeing" "would" and "beforehand" in verse 8 you will miss what Paul is saying.would = to express futurityforeseeing = to see beforehand.beforehand = ahead of time; early; often implying anticipation or forethought (foreseeing).So why do most think that salvation by faith without works was made to everyone before Jesus' work on the cross?Have a great day.